[Bug 557586] New: ACPI is disabled on this system
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586#c0 Summary: ACPI is disabled on this system Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 11.2 Version: Final Platform: x86-64 OS/Version: openSUSE 11.2 Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: Kernel AssignedTo: kernel-maintainers@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: max@stranger-team.ru QAContact: qa@suse.de Found By: --- Blocker: --- Created an attachment (id=328842) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=328842) dmesg User-Agent: Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux x86_64; U; ru) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.01 Start install system from DVD. After "Loading Linux kernel" in boot menu i have blank black screen and CupsLock + ScrollLock LED on. acpi=off as a parameter in installer boot menu work, but ACPI not work on installed system. If i removed acpi=off in grub config line i have same blank black screen on boot. It's not a hardware problem, any other OS, include openSUSE 11.1 x86_64 work fine. dmesg in attach. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. just boot 2. 3. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Irek kataklysm
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--- Comment #2 from Irek kataklysm
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--- Comment #3 from Irek kataklysm
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--- Comment #4 from Irek kataklysm
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Maxim Vasilev
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Maxim Vasilev
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Irek kataklysm
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Jeff Mahoney
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Jeff Mahoney
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Jeff Mahoney
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Jeff Mahoney
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--- Comment #8 from Maxim Vasilev
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Krešimir Jozić
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Alexander König
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Bruno Friedmann
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--- Comment #12 from Alexander König
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Jeff Mahoney
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--- Comment #13 from Irek Fasikhov
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--- Comment #15 from Alexander König
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--- Comment #16 from Alexander König
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--- Comment #17 from Alexander König
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--- Comment #18 from Scott Couston
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Scott Couston
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--- Comment #20 from Alexander König
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--- Comment #21 from Alexander König
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--- Comment #22 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #23 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #24 from Scott Couston
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Jeff Mahoney
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Thomas Renninger
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Scott Couston
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--- Comment #29 from Scott Couston
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Per Jessen
All we need is a CPU Thermal Ladder to throttle the CPU and/or Change CPU fan speed in the event BIOS is not so enabled, and/or suspend or shutdown the O/S if 'n' temperature is observed - I.E 70+
My only real interest in this is that my main workstation is an AMD Phenom quad too - is there a good reason why the BIOS would not be enabled for Cool'n'Quiet? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Thomas Renninger
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Scott Couston
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586#c33 Thomas Renningerchanged: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |ASSIGNED --- Comment #33 from Thomas Renninger 2010-12-20 21:47:00 UTC --- > I can run all my PC's with ACPI = off and this will not change. Looks like you have some problems with it... Some clarifications: - This is not an AMD problem, but the OEM/platform/BIOS vendor has to make sure the thermal management of the platform works - This is mostly controlled via ACPI - acpi=off is totally unsupported, even most irq routing information is passed via ACPI and you can be lucky to get recent machines booted at all without it. > If you are unable to test this on an AMD X_64 PC - please close as WONTFIX As said this is vendor specific (if the problem persists without acpi=off). If you are not willing to give this a test or debug it down without acpi=off, I have to close this bug "invalid". BTW: the cpuidle subsystem is totally unused on your quad core. It's about C-states which on AMD were only implemented (via ACPI!) on Turion single cores. I keep the bug open for a while for comments. But I tend to close it anyway and suggest to open new, clean bugs. The root cause of your problems (or most problems in this bug) seems to come from acpi=off which (nearly?) everybody used here. Of course you run into thermal management problems if you switch of thermal management. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #34 from Per Jessen
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--- Comment #35 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #36 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #37 from Scott Couston
We need a CPU Thermal Ladder You mix something up there. This has nothing to do with the cpuidle ladder governor. What you want to have is a passive trip point that can be set if the OEM/BIOS does not provide one. Quick introduction to passive cooling: Via thermal ACPI tables there are active (can be more than one), passive, hot, critical trip points which define a temperature. active -> different fans or fan states are switched on
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--- Comment #38 from Thomas Renninger
What you want to have is a passive trip point There were efforts to give userspace the possibility to set a passive trip
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--- Comment #39 from Thomas Renninger
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--- Comment #40 from Thomas Renninger
We need a CPU Thermal Ladder What you mean is a passive trip point
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--- Comment #41 from Scott Couston
GPU ---
Interesting topic. GPU is the second biggest power waster. Depending on your graphics driver and HW your GPU might do some powe
In any X_64 AMD CPU the CPU frequency is directly proportional to the GPU either as a separate PCIE or on Board.
CPU ---
Throttling ..........
Is our own current way of preventing overheat damage to I586 CPU but cannot be applied to X64
Powernow! .........
Should always be enabled. Yes there were issues. But there were significant improvements over the past years. Namely:.....
I dont care how much power I use or is wasted! Here the issue is that the Power config is vanilla - I have not disabled nor enabled anything to do with CPU - I can not do this as its greyed out and not accessible by default. I have NO ability to effect the greyed out images I offered you a pic There is no functional ability for me to do this in ANY X_64 AMD CPU!
We need a CPU Thermal Ladder Default Vanilla boot log shows that the thermal Ladder is not even available in X_64 AMD CPU
My Widget has NO trouble reporting default sensors on CPU Temp May I suggest you perform a test vanilla installation on any X_64 AMD CPU without touching ACPI and leaving default Cool 'n Quiet is disabled. Final thoughts are, openSUSE, SLED, SLES and Novell are all very highly committed to provide direct support to AMD and we advertise AMD in just about everything to do with these products. The amount of money that AMD throw our way in all the above products is enormous and I would hate to suggest that ignoring a vendor like AMD be taken lightly what so ever ! AMD is a huge huge money thrower at all of Novells products which is also include openSUSE, and to ignore software support for them would amount to suicide! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #42 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #43 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #44 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #45 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #46 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #47 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #48 from Scott Couston
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Thomas Renninger
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--- Comment #50 from Jeff Mahoney
Maybe http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kernel/2011-01/msg00100.html is related? There was a bug that cpufreq drivers do not get loaded, because we got rid of hal. Instead there is /etc/init.d/cpufreq from pm-utils package which will load
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--- Comment #51 from Thomas Renninger
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Scott Couston
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--- Comment #53 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #54 from Jeff Mahoney
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586#c55 --- Comment #55 from Thomas Renninger2011-01-22 23:03:23 UTC --- > there is no process in the operation of OpenSuse that can throttel the CPU so > it wont fry itself. This is wrong. OEMs have to pass passive and critical trip points. If temp exceeds the first, the CPU will get throttled on the latter the machine will be shut down. As said, this all depends on the BIOS, not on AMD and (partly as long as there is no bug) not on the OS. It also depends on your OEM that you have fans which can transport away the heat, even if the CPUs are fully utilized for some hours without the CPUs getting "fried" or the machine gets slowed down. I agree it would be fine to have an ACPI independent temperature control and throttle mechanism, but I could not convince Len Brown about it. > evident on all 5 different X_64 PC's I have which problem? - powernow-k8 driver is not loaded and cpufrequtils does not show you cpu frequency switching capabilities? - Do the machines shutdown (or hard switch off)? - Or is it about KDE Windows not showing cpu frequency capabilities? Please attach acpidump and dmidecode of systems which shutdown/switch off hard. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #56 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #57 from Thomas Renninger
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--- Comment #58 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #59 from Jeff Mahoney
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--- Comment #60 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #61 from Scott Couston
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--- Comment #62 from Jeff Mahoney
From the code: /* * Erratum 319: The thermal sensor of Socket F/AM2+ processors * may be unreliable. */
From "Revision Guide for AMD Family 10h Processors"[1], page 72: 319 Inaccurate Temperature Measurement Description The internal thermal sensor used for CurTmp (F3xA4[31:21]), hardware thermal control (HTC), software thermal control (STC) thermal zone, and the sideband temperature sensor interface (SB-TSI) may report inconsistent values. For CPUID Fn0000_0001_EAX[7:4] (Model) 4 and higher, this temperature inconsistency will occur only on AM2r2, Fr2, Fr5 and Fr6 package processors Potential Effect on System HTC, STC thermal zone, and SB-TSI do not provide reliable thermal protection. This does not affect THERMTRIP or the use of the STC-active state through StcPstateLimit or StcPstateEn (F3x68[30:28, 5]). Suggested Workaround None. Platforms that accept AM2r2, Fr2 (1207), Fr5 (1207) or Fr6 (1207) package
(this eventually prints the error message you've run into) processors should be designed with conventional thermal control and throttling methods or utilize PROCHOT_L functionality based on temperature measurements from an analog thermal diode (THERMDA/THERMDC). These systems should not rely on the HTC features, STC thermal zone features, or use SB-TSI. When (((CPUID Fn8000_0001_EBX[PkgType, bits 31:28] == 1 (AM2r2 or AM3)) && (F2x[1, 0]94[Ddr3Mode, bit 8] == 0)) || (CPUID Fn8000_0001_EBX[31:28] == 0 (F (1207)))), software should not modify HtcTmpLmt (F3x64[22:16]), utilize the value from CurTmp, or enable any of the STC thermal zone features by setting StcThrottEn, StcApcTmpLoEn, StcApcTmpHiEn, StcSbcTmpLoEn, or StcSpcTmpHiEn (F3x68[4,3:0]). Fix Planned Yes [1] http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/41322.pdf -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #63 from Per Jessen
My desktop is one of the Phenom II X6's. I rebooted with Cool 'n' quiet disabled and have been running 10-way kernel compiles in a loop for several hours now to try to force the CPU into thermal shutdown. Instead, the temperature has peaked at 48C in the CPU and 39C on the motherboard. The CPU and Chassis fans are both running around 3100 RPM. All cores are running at their specified max of 2.8GHz.
Jeff, for stress-testing a CPU or the cooling, try mprime (from http://www.mersenne.org/) - I'm pretty certain I was able to drive my quad-phenom to about 60-61C when I was testing a new motherboard. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586#c64 Thomas Renningerchanged: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |NEEDINFO InfoProvider| |scott@aphofis.com --- Comment #64 from Thomas Renninger 2011-01-23 12:45:39 UTC --- I am getting more and more confused.., it would be great if you could provide requested data to double check. I do not think that the issue has to do with the thermal errata (not sure). If it has, the subject of the bug is totally wrong, then the kernel should *not* look at the temperature sensor. Platform vendors should know about it and provide an alternate thermal sensor as described and export it via ACPI. For powernow-k8 driver not loading and CPU frequency scaling not available, please check your BIOS settings and best first update the BIOS. > I really dont know why this has taken man hours of discussion but NO action. Ok, instead of further discussing..., could you please take following actions: - Make sure you do not use acpi=off but default boot params - For all platforms where powernow-k8 driver does not load/work, please update the BIOS and check BIOS settings for related options. The settings may vary depending on the BIOS vendor, it may be included in the ACPI or a power subsection. There may be options like "performance/power optimized" or simply Cool'n Quiet on/off. You should be able to make powernow-k8 and dynamic cpu frequency scaling working by that. - For each affected machine, collect dmesg, dmidecode, acpidump, and /proc/cpuinfo output. Tar the info of each machine up and attach it separately with a short description if the phenomenons are slightly different (kernel initiates shutdown after about x minutes, or machine hangs hard, or power is switched off hard by HW, etc.) Currently I have nearly zero info. There are boot messages with acpi=off -> worthless, there are pointers to kernel oopses related to ACPI which is another problem, etc. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Scott Couston
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--- Comment #67 from Jeff Mahoney
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Scott Couston
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--- Comment #69 from Jeff Mahoney
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Scott Couston
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Scott Couston
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Thomas Renninger
.. why you have failed .. I wonder what you try to achieve with that comment, you won't get your problem addressed with it.
I run dozens of AMD x86 machines here without seeing thermal shutdowns. You suggested to stop discussing and get things fixed, so would you please follow my instructions so that I can work on this issue: - Make sure you do not use acpi=off but default boot params - For all platforms where powernow-k8 driver does not load/work, please update the BIOS and check BIOS settings for related options. The settings may vary depending on the BIOS vendor, it may be included in the ACPI or a power subsection. There may be options like "performance/power optimized" or simply Cool'n Quiet on/off. You should be able to make powernow-k8 and dynamic cpu frequency scaling working by that. - For each affected machine, collect dmesg, dmidecode, acpidump, and /proc/cpuinfo output. Tar the info of each machine up and attach it separately with a short description if the phenomenons are slightly different (kernel initiates shutdown after about x minutes, or machine hangs hard, or power is switched off hard by HW, etc.) I'll have to close the bug "resolved noresponse" if you don't/cannot provide requested info and will do so in some days. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #73 from Jeff Mahoney
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Scott Couston
I wonder what you try to achieve with that comment, you won't get your problem addressed with it.
Its our Problem not mine- This is a Suse Linux problem to solve - I'm just the messenger - I have taken a huge amount of steps to remedy this as the Vanilla Installation fails and tells us it has failed The Bug as reported is very simple and clear - The O/S has NO ability to monitor Temp and rejects the O/S ability to modify clock speed and states this in its own logs! RE: QA - I now know that suse.de does not operate a Quality System - We have the electronic means of logging bugs in our 'Problem Management System' but do nothing about its functional ability. For the good of the project I think the QA should attend the next Quality Assurance Meeting, which occurs every year in Brussels. Forgive me - I was under the impression that suse.de ran a Quality System The ISO (International Standards) are created / modified / enhanced by the yearly meetings in Brussels. The suse.de Project needs falls in following any such QA Procedure. the suse.de should follow both ISO90001 and ISO90002 from memory. I have already provided every bit of log data you need and viewing the log results on your Online AMD 6000 Platform that runs SLES, its logs are irrelivant as I stated above. It is clear you have not even attempted to perform a Vanilla Installation of a AMD 64-bit, in order to reproduce the problem logs. I capitulated due lack of confidence! Development and bug fixes seem to have the lowest priorities. The ethos of hopeing the next version of KDE will fix most of the bugs reports logged against the previous release of OpenSuse; is very interesting! This is the first time I have ever seems a huge project that does not confirm to any Quality Process. I have now given up on ever having this issue dealt with as nothing has been done to solve it despite my log data, Performing a Vanilla Installation on my own offline X_64 PC. The log data you have provided is irrelevant due to its amazing hardware ability. The Title of the Bug remains at AMD X_64 Multi-core CPU's have NO Thermal Protection from both Kernel or Power Manage! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557586#c76
--- Comment #76 from Scott Couston
I wonder what you try to achieve with that comment, you won't get your problem addressed with it.
Its our Problem not mine- This is a Suse Linux problem to solve - I'm just the messenger - I have taken a huge amount of steps to remedy this as the Vanilla Installation fails and tells us it has failed The Bug as reported is very simple and clear - The O/S has NO ability to monitor Temp and rejects the O/S ability to modify clock speed and states this in its own logs! RE: QA - I now know that suse.de does not operate a Quality System - We have the electronic means of logging bugs in our 'Problem Management System' but do nothing about its functional ability. For the good of the project I think the QA should attend the next Quality Assurance Meeting, which occurs every year in Brussels. Forgive me - I was under the impression that suse.de ran a Quality System The ISO (International Standards) are created / modified / enhanced by the yearly meetings in Brussels. The suse.de Project needs falls in following any such QA Procedure. the suse.de should follow both ISO90001 and ISO90002 from memory. I have already provided every bit of log data you need and viewing the log results on your Online AMD 6000 Platform that runs SLES, its logs are irrelivant as I stated above. It is clear you have not even attempted to perform a Vanilla Installation of a AMD 64-bit, in order to reproduce the problem logs. I capitulated due lack of confidence! Development and bug fixes seem to have the lowest priorities. The ethos of hopeing the next version of KDE will fix most of the bugs reports logged against the previous release of OpenSuse; is very interesting! This is the first time I have ever seems a huge project that does not confirm to any Quality Process. I have now given up on ever having this issue dealt with as nothing has been done to solve it despite my log data, Performing a Vanilla Installation on my own offline X_64 PC. The log data you have provided is irrelevant due to its amazing hardware ability. The Title of the Bug remains at AMD X_64 Multi-core CPU's have NO Thermal Protection from both Kernel or Power Manage! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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