https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
Summary: touchpad tapping is not disabled Product: openSUSE 10.2 Version: Final Platform: i586 OS/Version: Other Status: NEW Severity: Normal Priority: P5 - None Component: Installation AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: bluedzins@wp.pl QAContact: jsrain@novell.com
Dangerous, since while installation the user sets partitions, format drives, etc. and simply, accidental touch could end up poorly.
Please disable it.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
chrubis@novell.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team- |yast2-maintainers@suse.de |screening@forge.provo.novell| |.com |
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
jsrain@novell.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID
------- Comment #1 from jsrain@novell.com 2007-01-02 01:26 MST ------- No, it could not. There are several confirmations before the disk is actualy being touched by the installer.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
bluedzins@wp.pl changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID |
------- Comment #2 from bluedzins@wp.pl 2007-01-02 07:24 MST ------- Jiri, I know there are questions, but... AFAIR there is actually one final question and tapping could occur WHILE answering.
It is dangerous, and in the best could give user heart attack (I don't use tapping at all, so after some time of being used to it, it is a shock that even touch could change something during installation).
If I didn't convinced you, please close this report for good (however I put a book on touchpad on next install :-)) ).
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
sh@novell.com changed:
What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID
------- Comment #3 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-05 03:36 MST ------- Huh? Tapping is just about the only thing that makes using the touchpad bearable at all. We sure don't want to take away useful functionality from the system, even less so if it becomes inconsitent to what users are used to and what they will end up with in the installed system.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
------- Comment #4 from bluedzins@wp.pl 2007-01-05 09:02 MST -------
Tapping is just about the only thing that makes using the touchpad bearable at all.
So you do not like touchpad? ME TOO. I use trackpoint. But I cannot break my laptop in half. Touchpad is attached to it for good. And now you are making it even more dangerous that it is, can't you see it?
Please, reconsider some kind of disabling such stuff. Installation is too serious matter to grant "touch" as an answer for anything.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
------- Comment #5 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-05 09:09 MST ------- My laptop has a button to disable the touchpad completely if I choose to. One button press, and it won't do anything until enabled again.
With tapping, I like the touchpad. Without it, I would probably remove it with an axe...
But my point is that we are not to cripple functionality for all users because one does not like it. And we are not to change standard behaviour to become inconsistent with all the rest of the world.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
------- Comment #6 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-05 09:26 MST ------- To further explain my point:
With the same reasoning we could consider to post a confirmation popup ("Are you sure?" [OK] [Cancel]) each time the user hits the [Return] key. He might be doing something dangerous.
It's an OS installation, allright. You have to be careful what you do - you might end up destroying important data that you meant to keep. But that makes it even more important to provide the best usability we can. Usability is all about common sense, about consistency, and about not giving the user unpleasant surprises with unexpected behaviour. Taking away the usual way for clicking the mouse is just about the worst thing I could imagine. And for touchpads, tapping IS the usual way to click the mouse.
People would (rightfully) scream bloody murder if we did such a thing. And I would be among the first to join the screaming. ;-)
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
------- Comment #7 from bluedzins@wp.pl 2007-01-05 09:41 MST -------
With the same reasoning we could consider to post a confirmation popup ("Are you sure?" [OK] [Cancel]) each time the user hits the [Return] key. He might be doing something dangerous.
And you do and this is perfectly ok.
It's an OS installation, allright. You have to be careful what you do - you might end up destroying important data that you meant to keep.
I am. But for my whole life action in computers meant pressing something. Now I have two areas which react on touch -- trackpoint and touchpad.
Do not expect that your "standard" is "standard" for everyone -- left mouse button can mean right mouse button for somebody else.
People would (rightfully) scream bloody murder if we did such a thing. And I would be among the first to join the screaming. ;-)
:-)
It is installation, not using the installed system. a) you can operate perfectly without tapping, you still have mouse buttons (which you press, not touch). b) I really doubt that tapping is standard (how you can tell?)
At least I would opt in case touchpad/trackpoint is detected to ask user to enable/disable tapping. Or warn the user that tapping is on -- similar to detecting caps lock on when entering the password.
Such warning is no harm of anyone just a precation for people who are suddenly are put in "hostile" environment (note that even it is my computer, installer does not use MY settings).
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
------- Comment #8 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-05 10:01 MST ------- (In reply to comment #7)
I am. But for my whole life action in computers meant pressing something. Now I have two areas which react on touch -- trackpoint and touchpad.
You have. But most laptops have only one of them. We cannot make the exceptional case the standard.
You might want check if your laptop doesn't also hasn't an easy way to disable the touchpad. The button I mentioned on my Samsung X20 works out of the box with the standard Synaptics drivers: One press, and the touchpad is disabled. Your laptop might very well have something similar.
Do not expect that your "standard" is "standard" for everyone -- left mouse button can mean right mouse button for somebody else.
That's why we auto-detect that during installation. Ever clicked the right mouse button on a push button in the YaST2 installation? It will ask if you would like to change the mouse buttons to left-handed.
That underlines my point even more: Provide maximum convenience during installation so the user can concentrate on the important things. So that he does not have to fight simple things like the mouse or the keyboard while he has to make important decisions.
It is installation, not using the installed system. a) you can operate perfectly without tapping, you still have mouse buttons (which you press, not touch).
I can operate perfectly completely without a mouse. You can do everything with the keyboard (in fact, this is a requirement for machines that don't have a mouse or if the mouse is not properly supported during installation). But that can not be an excuse to disable it. The same goes for tapping.
b) I really doubt that tapping is standard (how you can tell?)
Ever watched people using a laptop? Ever watched novice users? Tapping is the most natural thing to do. That's why the touchpads are so successful: Almost each recent laptop has one.
At least I would opt in case touchpad/trackpoint is detected to ask user to enable/disable tapping. Or warn the user that tapping is on -- similar to detecting caps lock on when entering the password.
That's a bit like that old (and worn out, agreed) joke about MS Windows where that popup dialog appears: "You just moved the mouse. The system must be rebooted." [OK]
We are trying to REDUCE the number of questions and decisions. Every single one of them adds to the overall complexity. While somebody had had a good reason for introducing each one in the first place, it turns out that the good intention (if in doubt, better ask the user what to do) ultimately results in confusion.
That is, if we even could find out whether or not a laptop has both a touchpad and a trackpoint -- which I really doubt. That kind of thing is usually handled in much deeper hardware layers.
Such warning is no harm of anyone just a precation for people who are suddenly are put in "hostile" environment (note that even it is my computer, installer does not use MY settings).
I beg to differ. Every warning sends off an alarm to the user. Every popup where the user has to make a decision is hostile in the first place. Only if we cannot make a reasonable decision at all, we ask. And even then we try very hard to make a reasonable proposal that the user can change if he doesn't like it.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
------- Comment #9 from bluedzins@wp.pl 2007-01-05 12:47 MST ------- (In reply to comment #8)
I am. But for my whole life action in computers meant pressing something. Now I have two areas which react on touch -- trackpoint and touchpad.
You have. But most laptops have only one of them. We cannot make the exceptional case the standard.
Misunderstanding -- my point is, the trackpoint AND touchpad react for tapping.
You might want check if your laptop doesn't also hasn't an easy way to disable the touchpad.
Nope. And this would not work -- see above. I cannot disable everything because it reacts for tapping.
Do not expect that your "standard" is "standard" for everyone -- left mouse button can mean right mouse button for somebody else.
That's why we auto-detect that during installation. Ever clicked the right mouse button on a push button in the YaST2 installation? It will ask if you would like to change the mouse buttons to left-handed.
Nice. I will come back to this later.
That underlines my point even more: Provide maximum convenience during installation so the user can concentrate on the important things. So that he does not have to fight simple things like the mouse or the keyboard while he has to make important decisions.
I agree! Totally. So why do you not want to help people like me -- with tapping disorder?
Ever watched people using a laptop? Ever watched novice users? Tapping is the most natural thing to do.
Hmm, my first and last user whom I let to touch my computer (novice) tried to move the entire touchpad (like a wheel in a mouse) :-) And touchpad is so popular because it has no alternative in laptops really. But let's get back to topic.
That's a bit like that old (and worn out, agreed) joke about MS Windows where that popup dialog appears: "You just moved the mouse. The system must be rebooted." [OK]
Good one :-) I didn't know that.
Thank you for your comments, I see your point but I try to make installation process more safe. My another suggestions: a) how about something similar you described for RMB? b) how about option on a side for disabling tapping? c) how about just info on a side -- num lock on, caps lock off, tapping on?
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910
User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230910#c10
--- Comment #10 from Maciej Pilichowski bluedzins@wp.pl 2009-01-14 14:31:51 MST --- I am getting back to this issue because it bite again.
Please, add the switch exactly like for left-handed users. It could serve both worlds -- when user tapped for the first time ask, if she/he would like to have tapping turned on.
I tapped today by accident, and of course (and following Murphy's law) when partitioning the disk. This is really not safe when you have to watch your every gesture because it could be interpreted as "yes".
This is especially true for disabled people -- there is no settings during installation stage, so at least such minimum level of comfort should be provided.
Please reconsider and reopen this wish -- I will really appreciate this, thank you.
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