[Bug 216102] New: Yast Language setting assumes the language you select is the location where you like and Keyboard you use - wrong
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 Summary: Yast Language setting assumes the language you select is the location where you like and Keyboard you use - wrong Product: SUSE Linux 10.1 Version: Final Platform: i386 OS/Version: SuSE Linux 10.1 Status: NEW Severity: Normal Priority: P5 - None Component: YaST2 AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: alpha096@tpg.com.au QAContact: jsrain@novell.com If I choose and live in an English (UK) speaking country that is NOT located in the UK I will choose the (UK) English. This will automatically set my location to the UK. This is the case for Oceania where there is not an AU dictionary and we definitely do not use a US dictionary. The closest dictionary for us is a UK dictionary. The chosen dictionary should have NO reliance to the location NOR the keyboard you select. For example. I Live in Australia, the closest dictionary is a UK English and I use a US keyboard. These are all independent settings and do not effect each other. The same is true for the whole of Oceania region of the world. Many countries use a UK dictionary and are NOT located in the UK NOR do they use a UK keyboard. I understand that there are very great differences in the dictionary for every English speaking country, however in these countries they select an English (UK) dictionary as the closest. Only in the USA do people use a US dictionary – no one else – the closest is always the UK English dictionary for every software package. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 mhorvath@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team- |jsuchome@novell.com |screening@forge.provo.novell| |.com | Severity|Normal |Enhancement -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 jsuchome@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID ------- Comment #1 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-08 08:46 MST ------- Well, I understand that you are not satisfied with the default, but I don't see any better solution than the one we are currently using. The time zone (and keyboard layout) is only pre-selected after you select your language and you can of course alter it. Of course such default selection couldn't satisfy everyone, but I hope it is best for the majority of the users. Closing as INVALID, as I don't see solution. If you have any, just comment. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #2 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2006-11-08 21:47 MST ------- Closing bug as KDE is able to make these changes for me to effect the whole system. See KDE - Personal Settings - Regions. I can solve everything from there and dispence with YAST -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #3 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-09 00:12 MST ------- IHMO you can use also YaST for this - during installation you can select time zone and in the installation summary there is an option to change you keyboard layout for this. You can even set your locale to en_AU in the Language settings. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 alpha096@tpg.com.au changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | ------- Comment #4 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2006-11-09 03:25 MST ------- I am sorry I cannot download nor install an OZ Language module as there is not one available to my knowledge. As KDE in its presentation can make individual adjustments for Local, Date, Time, Number, Other Paper size and metric or imperial can be chosen and these should be system wise choices. I am sorry I am going to re-open this bug. KDE got part the way there, but cannot effect things like file dates and it gets very confusing when it is the date 06/06/06 - to the whole world, I really don't understand why YAST cannot complete the job, unless its a serious technical issue. Even Windows 3.1 could differentiate and I hate to use MS as THE example If KDE can provide these changes to their applications then certainly YAST should be able to make them global and effect dependant functionality. The ONLY country in the world that uses a US dictionary are those living in the USA. I cannot think of one instance where a non-us country uses a US dictionary. This was an issue with software 15 years ago. There must be NO dependants on Geographical Location, Language, Date Time Presentation, Number presentation and keyboard and paper size MUST all stand separate from Physical Location and as we do have to have defaults can we please have the ability to differentiate these items. To compete in Business we need to seriously consider these things. I am happy, due to the collaboration or various applications if this cannot be done functionally, however certainly the date format/language/keyboard can surely be separated. Re-opened for discussion -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 jsuchome@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |alpha096@tpg.com.au ------- Comment #5 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-09 04:53 MST ------- Sorry I do not understand what are you requesting. In YaST (during installation, but also later on installed system) you can select your system language ("/sbin/yast2 language" module - for the exact locale see Details button), keyboard layout ("/sbin/yast2 keyboard") and time zone ("/sbin/yast2 timezone"). What else do you need? Setting the locale will aleter also the time and date format, currency etc. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 alpha096@tpg.com.au changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |ASSIGNED Info Provider|alpha096@tpg.com.au | ------- Comment #6 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2006-11-09 16:49 MST ------- What I am asking for is to separate location from auto selection for date format and language. Date format is a particular concern as it canno be altered to DD/MM/YYYY and if I select location, as I do Australia, I get a default language of English US. I would suggest that keyboard, location, date format and language be separated. In my installation I select a US keyboard which I presume auto selects a US dictionary and US Date Format. Can we please separate these links that are currently in place and add a few fields to deal with assumptions. Sourceforce DO haver a AU dictionary , however they make mention it is for open office. I do not know how many dictionary's we maintain in 1 system -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 jsuchome@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID ------- Comment #7 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-10 01:32 MST ------- Keyboard, location (do you mean time zone?), and language actually _ARE_ separated. Date format relies on your system locale. Selecting keyboard layout in YaST doesn't cause selecting of anything other thank keyboard layout. The same for selecting time zone, which really only selects your time zone if your hardware clock runs UTC. Selecting system language to en_US sets the locale to en_US, which includes the date format. Change it to you favrourite locale if you want different locale settings. Selecting system language to en_US (and any other language) also causes selecting some packages for installation, e.g. aspell dictionaries or language dependent part of OpenOffice. If you want to use british english, use "English (UK)" as your system language at the start of installation. If you want something other, not listed in the list of languages, you have to alter you pacakge selection manually. Remember that you can also select "Language" packs in the package selector (it's the other item besides "Search"/"Selections"/"Package Groups" ones in "Filter" menu). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 alpha096@tpg.com.au changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | ------- Comment #8 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2006-11-11 00:11 MST ------- If I select a UK installation at first screen of installation I get a UK keyboard where uppercase 4 is a pound symbol not to mention all the other character mapping problems - which I certainly don't want. See the dilemma now! Five things remain totally independent. If this software is to address different world wide issues then we must treat the following individually. Possibly the only country in the world where the current installation settings will work correctly is the US and its a big world. This is a very old installation issue going back 20 years now and could be addressed by DOS 3.2 Keyboard Location Date/Time Format Dictionary Numbers. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 jsuchome@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID ------- Comment #9 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-13 02:10 MST ------- I have written in comment #7 how can you set the things you list in last comment. Where's the problem? Just select UK language if you want to have UK packages (dictionaries etc.). Select US if you want to have US ones. You can select any time zone you want in "Clock and Time Zone" dialog. See the screenshot. If you want UK language and US keyboard, select your preferred keyboard layout in the "Installation Settings" dialog, part "Keyboard Layout". See the screenshot. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #10 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-13 02:10 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=104896) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=104896&action=view) screenshot of installation - setting the time zone -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #11 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-13 02:12 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=104897) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=104897&action=view) screenshot of installation summary - keyboard layout adapted to US, timezone is Australian, language is UK -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #12 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-13 02:13 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=104898) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=104898&action=view) screenshot of expert dialog in language - setting en_AU locale (-> currency, numbers etc.), while still using en_UK translations -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #13 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2006-11-20 15:47 MST ------- There IS a solution currently present for the Date Time Format and it can be found in YAST> Languages> Adopt Date/Time for European/UK.....This do not however address the installation issue, but it allows everyone who lives outside the US to view the Date Time in a local manner -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #14 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-21 03:54 MST ------- So - where is the problem? It definitely can be adapted during installation. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #15 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2006-11-21 17:36 MST ------- Unfortunately by using the option, It changes you local and clock to be that of the UK. So this is NO solution. As I said orignally you cannot tie Keyboard Location Date/Time Format Dictionary Numbers Together by any automated means as is the case. There are far too many exceptions and always will be. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #16 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-22 00:16 MST -------
Together by any automated means as is the case. There are far too many exceptions and always will be.
Sure, there are many exceptions, but also many situations automatic selection works. Anyway, if you are not satisfied with automatic selection, you can change it. See comments #10, #11 and #12 showing places where you can alter you selection. What are you trying to achieve? Which configuration? What language do you want to have, which keyboard layout and which time zone? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #17 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2006-11-22 02:29 MST ------- There is an exception for everyone who does not uses an English Dictionary Who does not live in the US nor the U.K and dont use US Date Time formats. That sort of covers a great deal of people in the world. I use a US Keyboard for the character set. I live in a non US English country as there is no Australian English Dictionary available ( Open Office has one available) I don't live in the USA so I don't use their Date Time format. There are so many English Dictionary's available now and in time there will be an AU one and I will be able to select location Australia and Dictionary Australia English and automated processes will work just fine. Every NON UK Location, where you use English but don't live in the USA (and that is a lot of people) faced this automated delima with software 10 years ago where there was not an local English Dictionary available so we use a UK, however we don't live there but be use the keyboard characters of a US Keyboard, but don't want use their Date format. Automation WILL work (currently) correctly for you under only these 2 conditions. 1. You live in the USA. 2. You live in the UK. Only the USA uses their date format no one else who lives in an English speaking country uses their format. Most professionals are who have been around a long time are all very use to this problem, where software is early in development and after years of installing Networks and associated application we are use to thinking about the implications of our installation decisions in the absence of the distinctly correct option being available. P.S Just one other thing - The term UTC. This new term which has surfaced in the last 3 years represents GMT is only really understood and used in the USA. No matter how old some one is throught the world, if they are involved in Data they will understand what GMT means. - Its the physical place where time is measured from and it seems parochial to not to keep using it. I just think we should be building software for the World not North America. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216102 ------- Comment #18 from jsuchome@novell.com 2006-11-23 08:55 MST -------
Automation WILL work (currently) correctly for you under only these 2 conditions.
1. You live in the USA. 2. You live in the UK.
Sure, that's nothing new. But, again - where's the problem? Most users using american or british english as installation language (the very first selection during installation) are satisfied. The others have to select their different settings manually. Do you propose to drop automatic proposing at all, so _all_ users have to select their different settings manually?
I use a US Keyboard for the character set. I live in a non US English country as there is no Australian English Dictionary available ( Open Office has one available) I don't live in the USA so I don't use their Date Time format.
So, choose English (UK) at the start of installation and you will get british texts and software. Select Autralian time zone in Time zone step (comment #10). Select US Keyboard in the "Keyboard Layout" part of configuration (comment #11). Select whatever software you want to install in the "Software" selection. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
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