[Bug 342703] New: Updater wants to install already installed and running kernel
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703 Summary: Updater wants to install already installed and running kernel Product: openSUSE 10.3 Version: Final Platform: i586 OS/Version: openSUSE 10.3 Status: NEW Severity: Normal Priority: P5 - None Component: Update Problems AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: rccj@ricreig.com QAContact: jsrain@novell.com Found By: --- Because I insist that I have the ability to boot from a second kernel in case the latest and greatest kernel breaks my system as it has repeatedly in the past due to driver issues, I always install the newest kernel by downloading the 3 RPMs manually and installing them using rpm -iv <kernel>. This updates GRUB properly and does not remove the previously functioning kernel but does properly install the newest kernel and upon reboot if the kernel doesn't have major issues, the system boots just fine. If there are issues, then I reset and select the old kernel from the GRUB menu and the old kernel boots as it always used to. This is the desired installation and should be the default and until it is the default, I will have to do the installation manually. The bug is indicated by the attached screen shot. The updater insists on showing forever that there is an update that needs to be installed that I have to be careful to unselect or it will undo everything I have done to keep my old kernel intact as a backup. It will reinstall the new kernel, erase my backup, prevent the option to boot that backup in case I discover that the new kernel does have bad characteristics that make it undesirable to continue to be used such as loss of sound or other things that don't prevent booting but interfere with functions that worked under the older kernel but don't work or work poorly in the newer one. I do NOT want to install the kernel using the updater once I have installed it manually because of its anti-social behavior with regard to alternative kernels. The screen shot shows rpm -qa kernel* decidedly shows the kernel that the updater insists on installing as an 'option' is already installed. If I don't notice this, I undo my efforts. The updater should see if the upgrades are already installed and not just that there is an older version also installed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #1 from Richard Creighton
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c2
Cyril Hrubis
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c3
Richard Creighton
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Cyril Hrubis
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User rccj@ricreig.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c4
--- Comment #4 from Richard Creighton
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User tgoettlicher@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c5
Thomas Göttlicher
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User rccj@ricreig.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c6
--- Comment #6 from Richard Creighton
Could you enable the kernel patches to save the former kernel, boot menu ..., please?
I don't know to whom this was directed and the needinfo flag isn't set so I will only say that I am not aware of any KERNEL patches that will allow this. It is my belief that the updater, both the autoupdater and the YOU both call rpm behind the scenes with a -U and the rpms have a script that executes this anti-social behavior. If you install manually using rpm -iv <kernel>, this behavior does not exist, the old kernel, modules, etc are preserved and GRUB is properly updated by ADDING the new kernel to the boot options as it should. This is the preferred behavior with something so critical as a kernel replacement whether it is a patch or a full version upgrade. IF there is a KERNEL patch somewhere to save the former kernel when updates occur when launched by the autoupdater program or by YOU, please point me in the right direction, tell me what changes I need to make to ensure these patches are loaded or compiled (if necessary because I already do that for the disk driver). A baby step in the right direction would be to make this the DEFAULT behavior for kernels and a big step in the right direction for ALL updates (remember when zypper was deleted/broken leaving no way to update further). If this was a request to Novell to add/enable such a feature, I second the motion. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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User lmb@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c7
Lars Marowsky-Bree
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User jkupec@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c8
Ján Kupec
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User jsrain@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c9
Jiri Srain
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User jkupec@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c10
Ján Kupec
For zypper (commands based on packages) the only way to go I see is to introduce a special parameter.
I'd say it should be the default. I'm not sure whether the updating of kernel (installing the new and removing the old one right away) makes sense at all.
You may want to have multiple version of one library from different reasons (program requiring old version of a library etc).
AFAICS, the libraries are not an issue now as we package different major versions with different package names. The only issue is the kernel. (BTW: Why don't we package also the kernel with the version string in the package name??) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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User rccj@ricreig.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c11
--- Comment #11 from Richard Creighton
For zypper (commands based on packages) the only way to go I see is to introduce a special parameter. You may want to have multiple version of one library from different reasons (program requiring old version of a library etc).
Regarding update: I think that the solver should be able to handle this situation when evaluating a patch. However, I don't know if we can evaluate it via currently existing dependencies. Stefan, do you have any idea?
Just a thought: Once zypper/YOU sees that the update involves a kernel, change the call to RPM to -I from the normal -U and tell the resolver to IGNORE dependencies conflicts caused by retaining older modules. These modules are essentially self contained in the appropriate directories and would not be called by the new kernel anyway as it has its' own versions, often duplicates but stored in its' own directories in the /lib/modules<version> structure. So what if they are duplicates...ignore. Only the kernels themselves care and only if they are activated at boot by grub due to a choice by the operator. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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User visnov@novell.com added comment
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--- Comment #12 from Stanislav Visnovsky
I'd say it should be the default. I'm not sure whether the updating of kernel (installing the new and removing the old one right away) makes sense at all.
The biggest concerns are: - space needed, as new kernel requires creation of new initrd - how to identify the number of kernels to keep -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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User rccj@ricreig.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c13
--- Comment #13 from Richard Creighton
(In reply to comment #10 from Ján Kupec)
I'd say it should be the default. I'm not sure whether the updating of kernel (installing the new and removing the old one right away) makes sense at all.
The biggest concerns are: - space needed, as new kernel requires creation of new initrd - how to identify the number of kernels to keep
This shouldn't be a worry with the super large drives now available. For space concious installations, make it an OPTION to continue to use the current method of UPDATE rather than ADD during the installation of new kernels. For pruning of old kernels, a separate utility could be written but it need not be part of the automatic updater or YOU program, but part of the utility support packages developed and released later as support for GRUB menu maintence perhaps. If the GRUB menu maintence program saw you were deleting references to installed kernels, it could offer to clean things up for you. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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User jkupec@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c14
--- Comment #14 from Ján Kupec
(In reply to comment #10 from Ján Kupec)
I'd say it should be the default. I'm not sure whether the updating of kernel (installing the new and removing the old one right away) makes sense at all.
The biggest concerns are: - space needed, as new kernel requires creation of new initrd
I agree. So we need a fallback to "update" instead of "parallel install" in such case. This should be handled in libzypp i guess, with a callback(s) for interaction from the apps ("Not enough space to install the new kernel while keeping the old one, do you want to update the running kernel?").
- how to identify the number of kernels to keep
This should be probably left on the user. Advanced users will know what kernels the don't need anymore and how to remove them (e.g. with rpm -e). But for common users, our package managers should provide a way to remove them (yast packager and zypper rm) and the documentation (User guide, wiki, etc.) should contain an advice for them "Once your system works all right with the new kernel, and you make no use of the older versions, you can safely remove all the other kernel versions". -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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User lmb@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c15
--- Comment #15 from Lars Marowsky-Bree
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User schubi@novell.com added comment
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=342703#c17
Stefan Schubert
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User kkaempf@novell.com added comment
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--- Comment #18 from Klaus Kämpf
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User kkaempf@novell.com added comment
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Klaus Kämpf
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User jkupec@novell.com added comment
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Ján Kupec
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