https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 judas_iscariote@shorewall.net changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |judas_iscariote@shorewall.net ------- Comment #2 from judas_iscariote@shorewall.net 2007-04-11 15:37 MST ------- (In reply to comment #0)

In addition to the compact 1 CD netinstall ISO some people want due to their online preferences, I have strong offline preference, and I ask to provide a full SUSE distro (FTP tree) on 2 DVDs for 10.3. (as opposed to 1 DVD now)

sigh .. Why you want to enlarge the distribution even more ? aint it too big already ? specially, what benefit will this have to the **mayority** of users ? personally I think we should go backwards, less CDs/DVD and more online. almost always people only need less than half of the contents on the DVD. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #4 from alpha096@tpg.com.au 2007-04-11 18:51 MST ------- Personally I think that the distro is too large as it is. I would suggest that 90% of users would not install/use/understand what half the current utilities are for in the first place. There are thousands of them currently. The latest default set of application in 10.2 is a nice mix, whilst still providing the ability to customize. Even looking at the number of similar application that are visible on menus is disconcerting to new users - who don't expect to have more than one application for its intended use. Adding a 2 DVD and consequently increasing the CD numbers would put more pressure on dependency links which are difficult to manage at the current time. Personally I don't think we need to add any more function applications to the distro - or perhaps we should speak of it as a 'compilation' of applications. I am not trying to reject the authors wish, however I think we need to look at the distro or compilation as being technically maintainable well into the future and adding more complexity to current dependency links would be undesirable. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #6 from judas_iscariote@shorewall.net 2007-04-11 19:20 MST ------- (In reply to comment #5)

Again, I don't think that those applications needs all to be installed right away, just be "at hand",

If you want it at hand, create your local mirror ( man rsync)

1) Debian manages it. So can we.

We are not debian.. !! do you ever think on quality ? have you ever noticed the amount of broken packages in selections like the debian's one ?

2) Dependencies must be maintained anyways, because the FTP tree is fully supported packages for 10.2, just not in the DVD.

have you ever figured the waste of bandwidth this is ? just ask mirror mantainers.

but users with offline needs are forgotten.

Welcome to the 21 century, where Internet exists as well modern,efficient mirroring tools that will certainly not generate the waste of resources you are suggesting. If Debian is obsolete and always follows a "old fashioned" way to do things , does not mean we should do the same thing. IMHO opinion we should care more about quality and less about quantity. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #8 from al4321@gmail.com 2007-04-11 22:23 MST ------- Not only that, but also mobile users have so called "unstable internet" due to their WiFi connection on the road. Think about them too ! They also need offline-capable distro. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 carlos.lange@ualberta.ca changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |carlos.lange@ualberta.ca ------- Comment #10 from carlos.lange@ualberta.ca 2007-04-12 00:40 MST ------- I don't see how Cristian and Scott were able to misunderstand the enhancement request from Alexey so fully. They spend many words opposing some enlargement of the distro, when the request consists simply in including ALL the packages available on the FTP server (by definition they all are part of distro already) in 2 DVD ISOs. These could be offered online for torrent download, though it would be nice to have them also both in the box. I also applaud this idea. I see it cutting down immensely the installation time, when many of the packages not-in-the-first-DVD are installed. If they are on the DVDs, then only the differential security patches from YOU would have to be downloaded, which are orders of magnitude smaller. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 nderkach@gmail.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |nderkach@gmail.com ------- Comment #12 from nderkach@gmail.com 2007-04-12 05:39 MST ------- My proposal is to include all the FTP tree to DVDs, but not for downloadable ISOs (considering proplems with bandwidth an such). In my opinion this should be done for the _Retail_ version. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 gerberb@zenez.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |gerberb@zenez.com ------- Comment #14 from gerberb@zenez.com 2007-04-13 10:41 MST ------- I really would like a DVD with every thing in the ftp. As it is now I have to download the complete ftp tree and creat my own. I support many different companies with linux and I am constantly needing a set of DVD's with every thing on the ftp download for them. So please make an option for this that may be a purchased product. Thanks, -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #16 from carlos.lange@ualberta.ca 2007-04-17 08:44 MST ------- Great! Thanks. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #18 from jonharson@gmail.com 2007-04-27 12:57 MST ------- This is a really, really bad idea ... Waste of bandwidth, waste of mirror resources, waste waste waste.. Anyway what is there on the ftp that isn't on the DVD9 already, not much beside -debuginfo, -devel etc. So they drop the sticker, drop the admin book, but should go and add one more DVD (DVD9 are kinda costly btw ..) to the retail box !? If this happen i scream... You want quantity over quality the bugger off and go install Debian, period. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #20 from judas_iscariote@shorewall.net 2007-04-27 15:35 MST ------- (In reply to comment #17)

No, it's not enough.

Yes, it is enough for the 98% of the people.

The second DVD should be available for download as well.

No, it shouldn't. it is useless, and there is already wayyy to much more important things where to invest time and resources. This is a complete non-sense. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #22 from judas_iscariote@shorewall.net 2007-04-27 16:12 MST ------- (In reply to comment #21)

"Offliner" needs are currently poorly addressed,

Because there are more important things to do, and the current way works for most users.

As for bandwidth: we should remove all the AMD64 CDs, as all 64-bit systems have DVDs and not CDs anyway; So we can remove the 6 CDs, and the second DVD will take their place.

haha.. funny now you are trying to replace something that can be useful, for something useless.

Again: there are some users,

Some ? most you mean right ?

I prefer to see "offline" needs to be addressed by openSUSE.

So, you want to people to spend their time in a thing that a minority will benefit, will require more bandwith, will annoy mirror admins.. Thre is nothing to address as the current way works and works fine, if you have an usecase, does not mean the entire world should follow you. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #24 from rmatov101@charter.net 2007-04-28 16:14 MST ------- I don't support second DVD for download. It is plain waste of space and bandwidth. Actually I would vote for retail offer that is measured to 3 type of consumers: 1) Retail as it is now, for new users. 2) Retail/online order, 1 DVD or 1 CD with compressed image like some Live CDs for experienced users with broadband. 3) Retail/online order, 1 extra DVD that has FTP snapshot of missing packages on single DVD for dialup customers. This way everybody would be happy. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 michl@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX ------- Comment #26 from michl@novell.com 2007-05-22 02:37 MST ------- openSUSE 10.2 survey showed that more than 90% of our users have broadband. So we definitely address the waste mayority. 0.6% said, they don't have Internet connection. Sorry, but it's not worth to address this minor issue. And we (I spoke to Sales and support) don't see the need to offer it in the retail box. Maybe we offer it via torrent. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 ------- Comment #28 from marcio.ferreira@gmail.com 2007-05-22 05:30 MST ------- Now that it was said and proved that this so called big problem only affects a small fraction of the users, I want to know WHAT you so called "affected people" are going to do about it. This idea is so sensible as me asking suse to be optimized for AVR microncontroller arch because I want to use opensuse in microcontroller and because me (0.0001% of the "community" wants it), then I have to force everybody to swallow it. It was so easy to open a bug and start giving novell people orders "do this, do that, print a dvd with this and that", but now that you need to take some action to make it happen, for example, using kiwi, like I suggested. But you wont make it right? Not anybody who wanted it in this thread, not anybody in the mailing lists. You said it was an essential service, like an hospital, but I can bet that none of you will move slightly your asses to make it happen. Do you know why? Because its not essential, its just a good excuse to give people orders and tasks, and waste their time with your small problem. Because you people cannot deal with your problems. In this process you not very well educated people IGNORE the problem you care causing to the vast majority of the users. This is a silly selfish and sad attitude, that you (this is special for you alexey, READ THIS) dont seem to give a damn about anybody but yourself. Think about that, you bunch of SELFISH CLUELESS PEOPLE. Thanks for your attention -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606#c30 Volker Kuhlmann changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |volker3204@paradise.net.nz --- Comment #30 from Volker Kuhlmann 2007-07-07 16:30:38 MST --- I also agree with the suggestion and the well-reasoned arguments of the OP. I have broadband too, but want everything on DVD right in my hand because 1) Installing from DVD is 10-100 times faster than installing from online mirror. In my case, I live on a large island which has no suse mirrors, sea cable links are both expensive and do not compare in speed with LANs or DVDs. 2) I install several machines, and fail to understand the reasons for WAN installs being so popular. Third Millennium or not, downloading the same stuff twice (3 times, 5 times?) is barely intelligent or user-friendly. Debian I believe has a mechanism to automatically create a repo from the downloaded packages and/or use that as transparent proxy/cache for the next install, but the only mechanism suse has is deleting the downloaded packages immediately after download, which doesn't stack up to Debian let alone "most advanced user-friendly distro" (or whatever it was). 3) Creating my own mirror and downloading 10GB of stuff before I can start installing my first suse system is not the solution I am looking for. (People in this country have monthly traffic limits on broadband. Sea cables are expensive.) My own mirror is not in my pocket when I go to the next place to install a suse system. Burning the mirror to DVDs (plural) is possible in theory but not going to happen in practice (doesn't fit, re-arranging is past the limit of the KISS principle). Portable disk gimmicks are either expensive or too slow. 4) I have been in the situation where the only sensible work to be done is to install another system, and the Internet is down. Let's have a 4 hour coffee then, to keep the boss happy ;) What I have in my pocket is always safely available. 5) Adding the Internet OSS repo takes about a quarter of the installation time alone, as net result I usually don't bother. Not exactly good advertising. There is a use in having the whole ftp tree available on DVD. Whether this is a second DVD in the box or another ISO image for download by whatever download means are feasible doesn't make a big difference to me. Copying both DVD into a local ftp server with an SLP setup would be really nifty(TM) for LAN installations of more than 1 machine. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606#c32 Andreas Jaeger changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Resolution|WONTFIX |FIXED --- Comment #32 from Andreas Jaeger 2007-10-15 02:48:35 MST --- Yeah, let's change it to fixed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.