https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c2 --- Comment #2 from Rastislav Krupanský <ra100@atlas.sk> 2007-09-09 12:53:04 MST --- Created an attachment (id=162900) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=162900) fstab during installation -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c3 Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |coolo@novell.com Severity|Blocker |Major --- Comment #3 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> 2007-09-10 02:34:41 MST --- if your ntfs partition is in use this is no bug, but a normal error -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c5 --- Comment #5 from Rastislav Krupanský <ra100@atlas.sk> 2007-09-10 03:00:32 MST --- I´ve just found reason.I didn´t shutdown my windows correctly :-) You can close this bug.Sorry, my mistake. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c7 Thomas Fehr <fehr@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #7 from Thomas Fehr <fehr@novell.com> 2007-09-10 05:17:23 MST --- According to last comment in bug #300694 the behaviour with a dirty ntfs filesystem has been changed in beta#3. Bernd, could you have a look a this bug, from the description everything still behaves loke in beta#1 and therefore installation is aborted. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c8 Bernhard Kaindl <bk@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |szaka@sienet.hu Severity|Major |Blocker Status|NEW |ASSIGNED Summary|Installation finished with error |Dirty NTFS: Installation aborts after error | |message that NTFS partition can't be mounted --- Comment #8 from Bernhard Kaindl <bk@novell.com> 2007-09-24 08:38:24 MST --- Hi Thomas, now I agree with your statement in comment #9 in bug 300694: Let's revert the ntfs-3g change in yast2-storage and use the kernel's read-only NTFS filesystem as it's known to reliably mount the filesystem, whereas ntfs-3g does not do so yet (with the default options). Reason(s): Standard fstab semantics / fstab options not properly supported: * always mount the filesystem, no matter how broken the state of the filesystem is (if it *can* be mounted, mount it). Examples are: * FAT (which is very defensive and will spit error messages if it has errors, but if can mount, it will mount) and * hfsplus (which falls back to read-only if the filesystem was not cleanly unmounted, is marked locked or is marked journaled) * I made a patch which does the same which hfsplus does (fall back to read-only on dirty volumes) for ntfs-3g (it's attached to bug 300694), but unfortunately the need for it wasn't considered upstream yet, I hope it will in the future at some time tough. * Support for the user/users options in fstab not given. Would need suid ntfs-3g which is not considered safe so far or kernel-supported user mounting, which is an proposal of the fuse maintainer but which is in mainline yet. Raising severity to blocker because 300694 was already blocker and this is the same issue, just reappearing because we assumed that the update to the new version had fixed the issue. I fact it only touched one of the issues, but not one of the two remaining problems which I described the the second paragraph. I also changed the Summary to be more specific. We can still ship the ntfs-3g package, but I'll document the issues which it has in in it's package description. ntfs-config for read-write mounts: For users which want to mount to mount ntfs-3g read-write, we have the package ntfs-config, which is also not yet mature, but which is integrated into the desktop menu and which users can use (experimentally, as it does not use persistent file names, which is a must for external devices if you have more than one) to mount NTFS partitions read-write. I'll ask to ship it on the DVDs/CDs - so far it's not on the DVDs/CDs yet. Future permission support: I also want to add that an experimental patch which adds NTFS permission support has appeared and is being further improved, so the permissions model which ntfs-3g has now could be considered as "1st" generation and with NTFS permissions supported it should also be safer to mount read-write by default. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c10 Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Severity|Blocker |Major --- Comment #10 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> 2007-09-24 09:03:51 MST --- I'm strongly against it. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c12 --- Comment #12 from Bernhard Kaindl <bk@novell.com> 2007-09-24 11:25:49 MST --- Thanks for the clarification. I primarily looked at the "System error code" which is used in both error messages: https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=157696 https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=162898 It's the same for both! -> So I assumed that it's the same error condition which caused the mount to fail. As it looks now, it's asked for to fix this bug by falling back to a read-only mount. Would you be able to support this upstream? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c14 --- Comment #14 from Bernhard Kaindl <bk@novell.com> 2007-09-25 09:59:12 MST --- Only as footnote:

If these problems can't be solved on the Windows side...

Some people may not even have Windows available (like me here) and nonethless may want or need to access or work with NTFS partitions. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I consider the automatic read-only mount of a hibernated volume and unclean journal case a security and usability risk when a user wants to mount read-write.

I do not understand to which security risk you refer here. I can only assume what you mean is that different behavior on low levels can trigger different behavior on higher levels, but the risk which I see here is that applications which mount partitions using ntfs-3g might not expect different behavior and could fail. In my option, it is something we have to deal with and it's good not to change already used interfaces. On the other hand, the amount of users of the ntfs-3g mount interface should be limited to ntfs-config and maybe a few other apps, but I think that the want or the need for having fall back to read-only is a valid feature which is implemented in other filesystems and which could therefore be also expected from the mount backend of ntfs-3g. (that does not neccearily mean /bin/ntfs-3g for me, that means "mount -t ntfs-3g").

I think user must be notified asap in these cases so he can act accordingly.

Agreed. The question is how to notify the user in such situations. Terminal users can be notified by simple text messages which are printed at mount time by ntfs-3g itself, and it can also print a message that it fell back to read-only and mount read-only. As ntfs-3g itself does not provide a GUI for mounting, it's a question how to inform a GUI of issues which are discovered while mounting. I now recognize that the GUIs may depend on ntfs-3g mount to handle these mount issues as it's done now. The next question is how to inform the user when ntfs-3g is requested to be mounted at boot when no one (either server or fully graphical boot without error messages during boot) is looking at messages and boot has to succeed or the system does not even start network. I think that this is the really inconvenient case which we must address as the system must at least boot, the reaction to not boot is likely a message which is too harsh, I think that you'll agree with me here. So what I'll do is to replace the current symlink /sbin/mount.ntfs-3g with a program which acts as a front end to ntfs-3g, and can deal with rw mount refusals by retrying to mount read-only. In future steps, it can be enhanced to check /etc/fstab for permitted user mounts (only mount.ntfs-3g is suid then and in a subsequent step, it could be enhanced to open the disk device in the required mode (RDONLY for read-only mounts), drop privileges and pass the opened file descriptor to ntfs-3g for mounting. Does this sound like a deal? I'll check that ntfs-config uses /bin/ntfs-3g when it depends on ntfs-3g to refuse the rw mount with an error so that it behaves as expected and inform the maintainer of ntfs-config if I'd have to change it. I'd offer that mount program of course also for inclusion into ntfs-3g, and I'll document it in an addition to the man page of ntfs-3g. I'll suggest it to the other distributors as well and I hope that this does not stay SUSE-specific. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c16 --- Comment #16 from Szabolcs Szakacsits <szaka@sienet.hu> 2007-10-10 10:29:41 MST --- Hi, Here is my longer explanation I sent to Bernhard some time ago: -----------------------------------------------------------------------> When Windows is hibernated or the journal file is in use then that means that the data on the disk is inconsistent and it's from sometime in the mixed past. Some examples: 1) User deletes a lot of files on Windows and when he boots Linux he finds that the files are still there. 2) User copies a lot of valuable files on Windows and when he boots Linux he finds that he lost all his recent and even the old files! 3) User does very complex file manipulation editing and when he boots Linux he finds that his files are totally messed up and corrupted. The case 1) is not so bad, users typically find it funny but they can get __really__ histerical, desparate, angry, threatening when 2) or 3) happens and they make very loud noise how unreliable Linux/SUSE/NTFS-3G is and that it lost, removed, deleted, trashed all their data. Some people (old, young, computer illetarate, normal, etc) can be so upset that they don't even boot Windows anymore but reformat the drive thus deleting their valuable data themself (though this may sound very funny but please believe me, not for them!). However when mount is refused then they __immediately__ notice that something is not correct and they check the reason. They read it, follow it and think how smart Linux is that it can detect that they didn't shutdown Windows properly. And they end up being happy. These are the real, human reasons I think SUSE boot should just ignore the mount failure and keep going. I think not mounting is a much better option than presenting the user an inconsistent, old, meaningless file system state which could highly confuse, scare, disappoint, mislead them. Please note, that we are talking here only about two cases when we successfully detected for sure that we can not present the user a valid file system state. In all other cases the driver do its best to mount the file system. The journal case could be solved (read-write mount) in the future if we knew the full NTFS journaling specification. But we don't know it. The hibernation case is impossible to solve because that would require a dehibernation by a full Windows OS on Linux then a clean Windows shutdown with all currently running user applications. The only choice for read-write mount is the removal of the Windows hibernation file which means the user will lose all his in-memory data saved into the hibernation file. <-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Btw, users are reporting they can't write to NTFS in 10.3 but typically it's because they don't have write access as ordinary user without fstab modification or ntfs-3g wasn't installed, etc. Regards, Szaka -- NTFS-3G Lead Developer: http://ntfs-3g.org -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c18 --- Comment #18 from Will Stephenson <wstephenson@novell.com> 2007-10-11 06:08:42 MST --- Just so nobody forgets - my dupe #331804 concerned installation. if you keep NTFS-3G for install, at least check whether the partition can be mounted before formatting other partitions, or else the installation may abort with no easy way for the user to boot windows and get the NTFS in a consistent state. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c20 Carlo Luib-Finetti <cluibfinetti@eitco.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |cluibfinetti@eitco.de --- Comment #20 from Carlo Luib-Finetti <cluibfinetti@eitco.de> 2007-10-19 08:26:07 MST --- I'm a user who just tried to install openSuse 10.3 on my notebook, where I ran Windows and some older Linux version. From that Linux version I had Grub as my bootmanager installed. So, the real problem with the error whilest mounting a NTFS partition which is in Hibernate state, is: the installation procedure already formatted my old linux partition, which means: Grub doesn't work anymore - and the notebook cannot be booted anymore!!! So, if your installation procedure must mount an NTFS partition (why?) and it discovers an error mounting it: please, do run this script part BEFORE you format the designated Linux partition! Carlo -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c22 Cyril Hrubis <chrubis@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |paul@peck.org.uk --- Comment #22 from Cyril Hrubis <chrubis@novell.com> 2007-11-08 05:29:08 MST --- *** Bug 339280 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=339280 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074 John Jolly <jjolly@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|jjolly@novell.com |bk@novell.com Status|ASSIGNED |NEW -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074 JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blocks| |433187 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074 User szaka@ntfs-3g.org added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c27 --- Comment #27 from Szabolcs Szakacsits <szaka@ntfs-3g.org> 2008-10-22 17:35:09 MDT --- The latest release of NTFS-3G has no known bug: http://ntfs-3g.org/releases.html I think installation shouldn't abort if an NTFS partition can not be mounted. There are really millions of reasons why an NTFS partition can not be mounted. For instance, it's not really an NTFS partition anymore because it was reformatted with a different file system but the old NTFS signature was not wiped out and the Linux file system detection code couldn't detect this properly. I'll think about the possibility and implementation of automatic falling back to read-only mount. However I'm still not convinced that doing something else than what the user expects is a good idea. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074 User rodrigo@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c29 Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |yast2-maintainers@suse.de, rodrigo@novell.com Priority|P5 - None |P3 - Medium --- Comment #29 from Rodrigo Moya <rodrigo@novell.com> 2008-12-12 05:37:01 MST --- So, is this a yast problem then? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074 JP Rosevear <jpr@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team-gnome@forge.provo.novell.com |bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com Component|GNOME |Installation QAContact|qa@suse.de |jsrain@novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074 Arvin Schnell <aschnell@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |aschnell@novell.com AssignedTo|yast2-maintainers@suse.de |aschnell@novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074 User szaka@ntfs-3g.org added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=309074#c32 --- Comment #32 from Szabolcs Szakacsits <szaka@ntfs-3g.org> 2009-01-18 13:04:29 MST --- (In reply to comment #31)

See fate #304500.

Access denied. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.