https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850#c Xiyuan Liu changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |xyliu@suse.com AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |yast2-maintainers@suse.de |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850#c1 Johannes Meixner changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO InfoProvider| |yast2-maintainers@suse.de --- Comment #1 from Johannes Meixner 2013-11-29 14:25:08 CET --- yast2-maintainers@suse.de, it does not help to just assign an issue that is reported by me back to me (if I had an idea how to solve it I would have assigned it already to me). I need help how to solve issues like that. What do you usually do in the YaST team to solve issues like that? Do we have usability experts or similar who could help? The currrent yast2-printer dialogs - in particular its initial "Overview" dialog - was designed in a lenghty development process together with one from our former usability team, see http://en.opensuse.org/Archive:YaST_Printer_redesign in particular the "Release Candidate 2" section that reads: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The first feedbacks revealed a great sense of confusion about the amount and design of information presented in the overview. So there is a redesign then :-) The space acquired by help was used for an overview. Help as such will not be dropped it will move to a button within the navigation area. One thought was to hide "print via network", "sharing" and "CUPS autoconfig" under a "Settings" category, but this idea was dropped as the word "Settings" as such is quite meaningless. The crucial points are: * By starting the module per default with the "Show All" settings it is avoided that e.g. a desktop user in the network environment doesn't realize that there are already existing queues and starts to add a new queue. * "Print Via Network" should be very prominent because that is the point users should go to, when they want/are only able to use printers in a network. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regardless that "Print Via Network" is shown "very prominent" Christopher did not perveive it and clicked "Add" instead. Should I make "Print Via Network" bright red blinking text? ;-) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850#c2 Johannes Meixner changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jw@suse.com InfoProvider|yast2-maintainers@suse.de |cdenicolo@suse.com --- Comment #2 from Johannes Meixner 2013-12-03 14:53:59 CET --- Christopher, could you provide background information so that I can imagine why you clicked "Add" instead of "Print via Network". Preferably I would like to understand what you had in mind (in particular your so called "focus of mind") when you looked at the initial "Overview" dialog why "Add" looked as if it was "the right thing" regardless that your actual issue was to use a printer in the network. I know that this happens often when users actually want to "Print via Network" but I need to understand what goes on behind in the user's mind that makes "Add" look like "the right thing". -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850#c10 --- Comment #10 from Johannes Meixner 2013-12-04 17:07:22 CET --- Juergen Weigert, regarding "remote and local" you mix up "Local queue", "Remote queue", "Local printer", and "Remote printer", see my comment#4. The user does not need to understand that differences. All he needs is to perceive that when he likes to print via network, then he should click "Print via Network" (and not anything else). Regarding "Empty list with 'Add' button => user clicks 'Add'.": I think this could be the actual root cause here. Many thanks for that idea what is going on behind! Now we have to think about how to re-desing it so that there is no such thing as an "Empty list with 'Add' button" when the user actually wants to "Print via Network". This seems to lead back to the inital problem in comment#0: "how to autodetect what the user actually wants to have!" because for a home user system where a local USB printer is not configured, the "Empty list with 'Add' button" is exactly the right thing and here the user must click the 'Add' button. Is the absence of a local USB printer (local USB printers can be autodetected) a sufficient indicator that the user actually wants to "Print via Network"? Probably a 100% excat solution is not needed. It may be perfectly sufficient if an automatism could distinguish the both cases "Add (a local queue for local or remote printer)" and "Print via Network" e.g. 90% correctly. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850#c12 --- Comment #12 from Johannes Meixner 2013-12-05 10:23:18 CET --- Generalization of "Empty list with 'Add' button => user clicks 'Add'.": I thought I could use the case "Empty list" as indication that the user may actually wnat to print via network but this would be wrong. Rationale: Assume the user has a local USB printer set up and additionally he wants to print via network. This is the usual case for a mobile system (e.g. a laptop) where a local queue exists (e.g. for an USB printer at home) and when not at home the user wants to print via network (e.g. in the office). In this case the list of already available print queues would not be empty (the USB printer's queue exists). When the user is not at home (e.g. in the office with a CUPS server) and wants to print from an application, the application's print dialog only shows the queue for his USB printer at home because the firewall that must run on a mobile system must block CUPS server's queue announcements see in particular "print job phishing" at http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:CUPS_and_SANE_Firewall_settings The user misses queues to print via network. When the user is not aware of the firewall (cf. https://features.opensuse.org/316708), the user may launch yast2-printer to set up printing via network but for the same reason (firewall blocks CUPS queue announcements), the user would see only the queue for his USB printer at home in the overview dialog but no queues to print via network. The user misses queues to print via network in the list but there is that "Add" button next to that list so that it is totally obvious what to do next... Therefore from my point of view a generalization of "Empty list with 'Add' button => user clicks 'Add'." is the following finding: Usability hypothesis: "Missing entry in list with 'Add' button => user clicks 'Add'." To get at least some kind of evidencde (or even a proof) for that hypothesis: Christopher De Nicolo, Juergen Weigert, and whoever is listening here: please provide feedback whether or not you think my above analysis is correct. Outlook: If my hypothesis is right, the yast2-printer initial overview dialog needs a fundamental re-design. Basically (if my hypothesis is right), it means one cannot have two different buttons to set up printing (one via "Add" and one via "Printing via Network") which means the setup for printing via network must somehow be integrated with the setup for local print queues (the current "Add" setup). This would need a fundamental re-design of the whole workflows in yast2-printer. Retrospect: Setup for printing via network was not a major goal at the time when the YaST printer module was made anew. The main goal at that time was to clean up the mess of the old YaST printer module, see in particular "Basic Design Ideas" and "Strict Compliance With CUPS" at http://en.opensuse.org/Archive:YaST_Printer_redesign The current YaST printer module does not specifically implement anything that guides the user towards "Print via Network". The user is currently on his own to somehow know in advance that he must click "Print via Network" (but not "Add") when he wants to set up printing via network (cf. "Regarding a more windows centric world" in comment#4). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850#c14 --- Comment #14 from Johannes Meixner 2013-12-05 13:13:22 CET --- I was wondering all the time how I could find out when the firewall is active whether or not there are print queue announcements from remote CUPS servers in the outer network beyond the firewall. yast2-printer nor any other application can look outside beyond the firewall - but the firewall itself knows what goes no in the outer network. If the firewall logged when it drops or rejects print queue announcements from remote CUPS servers (i.e. what gets sent to UDP port 631), yast2-printer could inspect the firewall's log file to find out and show meaningful information to the user so that the user could then decide if he trusts those remote hosts and likes to accept what they send to UDP port 631. See "A general idea for better firewall user experience:" at https://features.opensuse.org/316708 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852850#c16 Johannes Meixner changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |RESOLVED InfoProvider|cdenicolo@suse.com | Resolution| |FEATURE --- Comment #16 from Johannes Meixner 2013-12-11 10:48:11 CET --- Conclusion: Better guide the user away from "Add" towards an actually right solution (mainly towards "Print via Network") is not possible when there are different buttons (with different workflows) to set up printing (one via "Add", one via "Printing via Network", one via "Share Printers", ...). When there are several buttons (entry points) the software cannot guide the user to click the right button (choose the right entry). Therefore the initial dialog should show the list of currently available print queues plus one single button to "do whatever can be done" when something is not as expected (e.g. when something is missing) in that list. This means a fundamental re-design of the dialogs and workflows to set up the whole printing stuff is needed. This cannot be implemented as "bugfix" or "enhancement". I will file a FATE feature request. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.