[Bug 466205] New: power button and ctrl+alt+del are completely disabled
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 Summary: power button and ctrl+alt+del are completely disabled Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 11.1 Version: Final Platform: x86-64 OS/Version: Other Status: NEW Severity: Normal Priority: P5 - None Component: Installation AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: bluedzins@wp.pl QAContact: jsrain@novell.com Found By: --- power button and ctrl+alt+del are completely disabled So user cannot turn off computer easily. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User meissner@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c1 Marcus Meissner <meissner@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |bluedzins@wp.pl --- Comment #1 from Marcus Meissner <meissner@novell.com> 2009-01-14 16:20:58 MST --- also the power cord is completely mislabeled, its even easier to turn off the computer with it. What is the actualy problem? That they cause a reboot? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c2 Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW Info Provider|bluedzins@wp.pl | --- Comment #2 from Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> 2009-01-15 00:25:44 MST ---
also the power cord is completely mislabeled,
??? What are you talking about. What labeling?
What is the actualy problem?
Marcus, did you read my report? Do you consider disabling power button as normal so user cannot turn off computer? System should respond to user actions, when user presses power off button to turn off computer, the system should respect this and turn off the computer. I think it is pretty simple idea to grasp so I don't understand what do you have in mind when you ask about problem and labeling the power cord. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User devzero@web.de added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c3 roland kletzing <devzero@web.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |devzero@web.de --- Comment #3 from roland kletzing <devzero@web.de> 2009-01-31 03:10:47 MST --- hello. i think this was a misunderstanding and the power-cord thing was just meant ironically. if your power button does not shutdown the computer and ctr-alt-del does not trigger a shutdown/reboot, too, i think it`s very specific problem of your system and not general behaviour. can you do a "tail -f /var/log/messages" and press the power-button or ctrl-alt-del then? you should see some additional lines of message shortly after. can you post that here? also, please post details about your hardware -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c4 --- Comment #4 from Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> 2009-01-31 07:11:00 MST ---
if your power button does not shutdown the computer and ctr-alt-del does not trigger a shutdown/reboot, too, i think it`s very specific problem of your system and not general behaviour.
I doubt it -- those events are just notifications to the system, so it is up to the system what to do next. Somehow the same computer _after_ installation powers down the system. Why? Because the system responds to the pressing power button or ctrl+alt+del. Dell Latitude D610. tail does not say anything. If I run OS installer: a) press ctrl+alt+del -- it does not work b) do not press CAD, switch to console, press CAD -- it works c) press CAD, switch to console, press CAD -- it does not work Power off button is disabled in installation, no matter if it is pressed in console, or installer. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User llipavsky@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c5 Lukas Lipavsky <llipavsky@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |llipavsky@novell.com --- Comment #5 from Lukas Lipavsky <llipavsky@novell.com> 2009-02-18 07:36:19 MST --- Ctrl+Alt+Del is disabled intentionally in X session so user does not reboot the machine accidentally. "CAD" is used e.g. while working with windows in VMware etc... If user really wants to reboot, switching to console and then pressing "CAD" should work -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c6 --- Comment #6 from Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> 2009-02-18 08:09:07 MST ---
Ctrl+Alt+Del is disabled intentionally in X session so user does not reboot the machine accidentally.
What is the chance user would press _3_ keys altogether by accident? They are three, not one exactly for that purpose -- preventing accident pressing. If you like to control it, please display shutdown confirmation dialog.
"CAD" is used e.g. while working with windows in VMware etc...
It is the same shortcut for shutting down the system so where is the conflict?
If user really wants to reboot, switching to console and then pressing "CAD" should work
It is not reasonable UI at all. If installer blocks normal UI it should handle it -- it is not user task to overcome software obstacles. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User llipavsky@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c7 --- Comment #7 from Lukas Lipavsky <llipavsky@novell.com> 2009-02-18 08:16:13 MST --- (In reply to comment #6)
Ctrl+Alt+Del is disabled intentionally in X session so user does not reboot the machine accidentally.
What is the chance user would press _3_ keys altogether by accident? They are three, not one exactly for that purpose -- preventing accident pressing.
"CAD" is used e.g. while working with windows in VMware etc...
It is the same shortcut for shutting down the system so where is the conflict?
No, you want to send "CAD" to the system in VMware and not to the local system. This behavior is usual in Linux distributions for several years now... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c8 --- Comment #8 from Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> 2009-02-18 09:47:06 MST --- Now I am puzzled, the guest system cannot do anything about it -- it is up to VMware (VirtualBox, etc) if it passes the shortcut. And usually it won't -- because it is intercepted by the host system. The usual way to pass CAD to the guest system is to call explicitly such menu entry. So again -- where is the conflict? User chooses to pass CAD because she/he wants to get the effect of pressing CAD. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 Cyril Hrubis <chrubis@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |yast2-maintainers@suse.de |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User jsrain@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c9 Jiri Srain <jsrain@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #9 from Jiri Srain <jsrain@novell.com> 2009-03-10 02:37:03 MST --- CAD has - to my knowledge - never worked in X. No matter whether it can be passed to the guest system, users may tend to use this combination to reboot the guest machine. Changing this behavior would result in unwanted reboots of the host system. Switching to text console (or shutting down X11) first is common practice, current behavior is what most of the users expect. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c10 --- Comment #10 from Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> 2009-03-10 03:32:44 MST --- Jiri, I really am disturbed how you get those conclusions. For example: * you say CAD should be blocked, <the reason> * shutting down X11 should not be blocked -- and somehow this reason from above does not apply It is funny that CAD or power button can be pressed by accident, but all of the sudden ctrl+alt+backspace is always pressed intentionally. How is this possible?
users may tend to use this combination to reboot the guest machine.
Uhm, and the guest machine is... opensuse. So you say the user would like to use CAD in opensuse but on the other hand you have to prevent using it by the user? Reopening, it makes no sense. If I am not right, please explain this to me how _installer_ of opensuse 11.1 is able to play a role of host system and run vmware/virtualbox on the side. However I didn't get why you started with guest/host system anyway, because it has nothing to do with this report.
Switching to text console (or shutting down X11) first is common practice,
Do you use Gnome or KDE? You really switch to text console in order to turn off computer? Or you just press power off button? Even my Mom does this. The way you force user to make hoops just to do such simple task as switching off computer is not acceptable -- it is completely not intuitive. Every computer has button "power off". This button is for shutting down computer. And using _it_ is common practice. Please respect this.
current behavior is what most of the users expect.
Can I see a survey backing up this claim?
From my experience I've never seen user afraid of pressing power off button, and despite it could be "dangerous" as well as within installer, I never saw one mistake.
Btw. please see comment #4.c -- this is bug on its own, another reason this issue is valid. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c11 Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #11 from Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> 2009-03-10 03:33:46 MST --- Changing status accordingly. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User jsrain@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c12 Jiri Srain <jsrain@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |bluedzins@wp.pl --- Comment #12 from Jiri Srain <jsrain@novell.com> 2009-03-10 04:50:17 MST --- Current CAD behavior is what has been here for years; if you intend to change it, you had better discuss it on relevant mailing lists to have broader agreement. Until the expectation of most of the users is changed, current behavior is correct. Regarding 4c: works for me; maybe too short time between pushing Ctrl + Alt + BackSpace and CAD? Can you check and wait until the text console appears before CAD? Regarding power button: You can change its behavior in the powersave applet - some prefer shut down, I use it to suspend. To switch the computer off, I usually go via the KDE menu. During installation, when you don't have full system running (and don't handle ACPI events), you can always switch the computer by pushig the power button for 4 seconds (or something like that) - that's standart behavior. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User bluedzins@wp.pl added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c13 Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |REOPENED Info Provider|bluedzins@wp.pl | --- Comment #13 from Maciej Pilichowski <bluedzins@wp.pl> 2009-03-10 05:16:16 MST ---
Current CAD behavior is what has been here for years; if you intend to change it, you had better discuss it on relevant mailing lists to have broader agreement. Until the expectation of most of the users is changed, current behavior is correct.
You mean there is some expectation of not doing anything? Usually you can meet only fraction of userbase in ML, but if is required, which ML it is.
Regarding 4c: works for me; maybe too short time between pushing Ctrl + Alt + BackSpace and CAD?
What backspace? I wrote about CAD there. Pressing CAD before going to console leads to disabled CAD in console as well.
Can you check and wait until the text console appears before CAD?
I already did it, that's why I wrote the results of those tests.
During installation, when you don't have full system running (and don't handle ACPI events), you can always switch the computer by pushig the power button for 4 seconds (or something like that) - that's standart behavior.
True, but this is hard power off shutdown and it is not very healthy. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205 User jsrain@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466205#c14 Jiri Srain <jsrain@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #14 from Jiri Srain <jsrain@novell.com> 2009-03-10 05:54:24 MST --- I suggest you can use factory for this purpose. Sorry, back-space for shutting down X11 (and switching to console), meant Ctrl+Alt+F1. Anyway, if CAD, switch to console, CAD does not work for you, it sounds hardware specific (works for me), please, write a separate bugreport and limit it to this specific case. This one solves too many cases. During installation, you don't have the ACPI stack running or available - and even if you had, there is no clean shut-down (including unmounting filesystem) implemented in the installation system. Since everything needs to be in memory, it is trade-off: You can have additional functionality but need to pay for it with memory consumption (resulting in unability to install on some machines). The push for lower memory requirements for installation is quite high, the benefit of ACPI stack is not that inmportant. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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