[Bug 647355] New: fontconfig makes Korean fonts (unfonts) very ugly and bugfix suggestion
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355#c0 Summary: fontconfig makes Korean fonts (unfonts) very ugly and bugfix suggestion Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 11.3 Version: Final Platform: All OS/Version: openSUSE 11.3 Status: NEW Severity: Minor Priority: P5 - None Component: Other AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: kbn00@hotmail.com QAContact: qa@suse.de Found By: --- Blocker: --- User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8 SUSE/7.0.528.0 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/7.0.528.0 Safari/534.8 The SUSE fontconfig setup files make Korean ttf fonts (e.g. unfonts) very ugly and unreadable. The fix I chose was to comment out Korean (ko) related part in /etc/fonts/conf.d/50-suse-pre-user.conf (this is a symlink to another file by the way). Please fix this because many newbie Korean users just give up OpenSUSE because the default Korean fonts setting is ugly. Thanks. Here goes the diff results: # diff -c 50-suse-pre-user.conf-orig 50-suse-pre-user.conf *** 50-suse-pre-user.conf-orig 2010-10-18 22:20:07.467607064 +0900 --- 50-suse-pre-user.conf 2010-10-18 21:55:15.228838824 +0900 *************** *** 37,43 **** --- 37,45 ---- <test name="lang" compare="contains"> <string>ja</string> <string>zh</string> + <!-- <string>ko</string> + --> </test> <test name="spacing" compare="eq"> <const>dual</const> *************** *** 62,68 **** --- 64,72 ---- <test name="lang" compare="contains"> <string>ja</string> <string>zh</string> + <!-- <string>ko</string> + --> </test> <test name="outline" compare="eq"> <bool>false</bool> Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Install unfonts 2. Choose UnDotum font 3. See how ugly UnDotum is on OpenSUSE 1.3 Actual Results: ugly korean fonts Expected Results: nice antialiased fonts -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #3 from Bong Kim
Hi Kim,
thanks for report.
Unfortunately I do not know Hangŭl, so please be so much specific as possible. I have English installation of openSUSE 11.3 and there I have installed unfonts. What I should do to reproduce bug now?
It would be also _very_ appreciated if you attach two screenshots of an example acquired before and after your fix.
Thanks!
Hi First, make sure that Unfont as your default Korean fonts. You can check this by in your Konsole $ export LANG=ko_KR.UTF-8 $ fc-match sans fc-match should return "UnDotum". (you might need to edit /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-port-user.conf and /etc/fonts/conf.d/65-nonlatic.conf.) Now using your web browser (I use Chromium but Firefox also okay), visit any Korean web sites like http://www.naver.com http://www.daum.net (both are top Korean portal sites) You'll see that Korean fonts are NOT antialised and ugly. And comment out <string>ko</string> lines in suse-pre-user.conf and you'll see the difference. My understanding is that some CJK fonts might need the setting in suse-pre-user.conf file, but the most popular Korean fonts (Unfont and Nanum fonts for example) do not work well with that setting. I remember Ubuntu also used to have a similar settings for CJK fonts by default in the past, but not anymore for recent verions like Ubuntu 10.10. Thanks for your attention. Bong Kim -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #4 from Petr Gajdos
And comment out <string>ko</string> lines in suse-pre-user.conf and you'll see the difference.
Unfortunately I don't see the difference :-(. Maybe screen shots before and after fix could help. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #5 from Bong Kim
(In reply to comment #3)
And comment out <string>ko</string> lines in suse-pre-user.conf and you'll see the difference.
Unfortunately I don't see the difference :-(. Maybe screen shots before and after fix could help.
Umm... I'd installed Nanum fonts and changed fontconf files to use it as my default Korean fonts. Now I'm not sure it is Nanum fonts or my fontconf changes or both that fixed the ugly fonts problem. Let me tell you how to make Korean fonts ugly from the initial installation. When you finish installing SUSE 11.3 and login, visit http://www.daum.net The default English installation has nice looking Korean fonts. Make a screenshot here. Now, goto Yast Control Center's Language, and install Korean which includes unfonts and scim input method among others. And visit the site again. Now you'll see very ugly Korean fonts. Compare it with the screenshot you took. As far as I know, UnDotum fonts are not this ugly. I'm sorry I didn't took screenshots in everystep and I didn't record evey change I made, but the UnDotum fonts after installing Korean language are not simply the looking I'm used to. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #6 from Bong Kim
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Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #8 from Petr Gajdos
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Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #10 from Petr Gajdos
Fixes ~/.font.conf with following content the problem for you?
~/.fonts.conf I meaned. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #11 from Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #12 from Bong Kim
I wonder what happens with font settings during korean language installation.
Installing Korean language does not change fontconfig setting. I've looked again the configuration files, and /etc/fonts/suse-hinting.conf file turns off autohinting for UnDotum because UnDotum is TrueType. It is just the default fontconfig setting that does not work well with Unfonts. Yes, the personal .fonts.conf turns on autohint, however, still the UnDotum does not look as good as when it is used on my Ubuntu 10.10. I'm not sure why, but there must be some differences, either the fonts files and/or the fontconfig settings. Anyway, my personal opinion is that it might be better if OpenSUSE includes Nanum fonts by default. I've found out that Nanum fonts work well with default OpenSUSE fontconfig. I've just added Nanum fonts to suse-post-user.conf for serif, sans-serif, and monospace. And that's all. Nanum fonts has SIL OPEN FONT LICENSE (http://help.naver.com/ops/step2/faq.nhn?faqId=15879), and it has NanumGothic (sans), NanumMyeongjo(serif), and NanumGothicCoding (monospace) among others. They are available here http://hangeul.naver.com/index.nhn Thanks again for your attention. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #13 from Petr Gajdos
Installing Korean language does not change fontconfig setting. I've looked again the configuration files, and /etc/fonts/suse-hinting.conf file turns off autohinting for UnDotum because UnDotum is TrueType. It is just the default fontconfig setting that does not work well with Unfonts.
Yes, I have noticed it too, thanks.
Yes, the personal .fonts.conf turns on autohint, however, still the UnDotum does not look as good as when it is used on my Ubuntu 10.10. I'm not sure why, but there must be some differences, either the fonts files and/or the fontconfig settings.
I cannot compare that, because I don't have Ubuntu.
Anyway, my personal opinion is that it might be better if OpenSUSE includes Nanum fonts by default. I've found out that Nanum fonts work well with default OpenSUSE fontconfig. I've just added Nanum fonts to suse-post-user.conf for serif, sans-serif, and monospace. And that's all.
Nanum fonts has SIL OPEN FONT LICENSE (http://help.naver.com/ops/step2/faq.nhn?faqId=15879), and it has NanumGothic (sans), NanumMyeongjo(serif), and NanumGothicCoding (monospace) among others. They are available here http://hangeul.naver.com/index.nhn
Would you like to package it? I will turn aliasing on for unfonts in suse-hinting.conf in the first place. I see three possibilities for the future: 1. settle for unfonts with aliasing turned on, 2. replace unfonts by nanumfonts, but I will definitely need help with packaging them, 3. settle for droid-fonts which appear to be used when unfonts are not installed. What's your impression from droid-fonts?
Thanks again for your attention. Thanks for cooperation.
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--- Comment #14 from Bong Kim
Would you like to package it?
I have no experience in making a RPM package. I'm willing to help you get the fonts (*.ttf) and LICENSE files.
I will turn aliasing on for unfonts in suse-hinting.conf in the first place. I see three possibilities for the future: 1. settle for unfonts with aliasing turned on,
I just 'diff' UnDotum.ttf file and the one on my Ubuntu partition, and the sizes are different. It might be the reason why Unfonts on OpenSUSE do not look as good as on Ubuntu ? I suspect that turning on aliasing alone does not make Unfonts look good on OpenSUSE 11.3
2. replace unfonts by nanumfonts, but I will definitely need help with packaging them,
The best option in my opinion. I'm willing to help but as I said, I have no experience in making a RPM package.
3. settle for droid-fonts which appear to be used when unfonts are not installed. What's your impression from droid-fonts?
Droid-fonts are okay. It is almost as good looking as Unfonts on Ubuntu. But Korean users don't know about Droid-fonts well and might want to try to install Unfonts and screw up again. In sum, my preference is 2 > 3 > 1 Thank you. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #15 from Petr Gajdos
I just 'diff' UnDotum.ttf file and the one on my Ubuntu partition, and the sizes are different. It might be the reason why Unfonts on OpenSUSE do not look as good as on Ubuntu ? I suspect that turning on aliasing alone does not make Unfonts look good on OpenSUSE 11.3
Might be, but I believe we have the last version, at least from http://kldp.net/projects/unfonts/download which of course can't be counterargument, though.
In sum, my preference is 2 > 3 > 1
So let's go second way.
I have no experience in making a RPM package. I'm willing to help you get the fonts (*.ttf) and LICENSE files.
Excelent, please go ahead and provide me with these. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #16 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #17 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #18 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #19 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #20 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #21 from Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #22 from Bong Kim
You had to rename fonts from
NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip
right?
No, because all the fonts *.ttf files have different names. Nanum fonts originally comes in two zip files, 1) NanumFont_TTF_ALL.zip has NanumGothic, NanumMyeongjo, NanumBrush and NanumPen family fonts. 2) NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip has NanumCothicCoding family fonts. Because of the file size limit of the attachment, I've splitted NanumFont_TTF_ALL.zip into 2 tar.gz files (these are first two attachments). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #23 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #24 from Petr Gajdos
(In reply to comment #22) No, because all the fonts *.ttf files have different names.
Yes, but what I get from NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip downloaded from archive is: pgajdos@laura:~/osc/M17N/nanumfonts> unzip NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip Archive: NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip inflating: ????????????????????????-Bold.ttf inflating: ????????????????????????.ttf pgajdos@laura:~/osc/M17N/nanumfonts> ls ³ª´®°íµñÄÚµù-Bold.ttf ³ª´®°íµñÄÚµù.ttf NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip (In reply to comment #23)
By the way, the LICENSE file in the 3rd attachment (i.e. NanumGothicCoding) is different from the first two, because (this is just a technicality) NanumGothicCoding is a seperate project and is not part of NanumFont distribution yet, even though both have SIL Open Font License.
Yes, I will probably use them both.
So you might need to include both LICENSES in the package you're building or
Yes, I will.
make seperate packages (Debian/Ubuntu has 2 packages, one for nanumfont and the other for nanum-gothic-encoding, FYI).
I am momentaly considering it, thanks. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #25 from Bong Kim
pgajdos@laura:~/osc/M17N/nanumfonts> unzip NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip Archive: NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip inflating: ????????????????????????-Bold.ttf inflating: ????????????????????????.ttf pgajdos@laura:~/osc/M17N/nanumfonts> ls ³ª´®°íµñÄÚµù-Bold.ttf ³ª´®°íµñÄÚµù.ttf NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip
The filenames are Korean in the NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip file. They are not displayed properly because your terminal might not support Korean? The filenames in my tar.gz attachment are the English names of the Korean ones. And the English names are the same ones in the English version of the LICENSE. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #26 from Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #27 from Petr Gajdos
(In reply to comment #24) The filenames are Korean in the NanumGothicCoding-2.0.zip file. They are not displayed properly because your terminal might not support Korean?
The filenames in my tar.gz attachment are the English names of the Korean ones. And the English names are the same ones in the English version of the LICENSE.
Yes, so that's why I asked about renaming in comment 22 :-). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #28 from Bong Kim
Another question: could you please provide Author(s) name(s)?
Naver (http://www.naver.com) is one of the biggest Korean internet portal sites (it's like Korean Yahoo kind of). The company commissioned a font design company to make Korean fonts (I can't remember the designer name) and made the fonts available under SIL Open Font License. Thus, I think Naver or Naver.com owns the fonts. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #29 from Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #30 from Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #31 from Bong Kim
In regard to 1: I have tested both situations (unfonts installed and (nanumfonts not installed or nanumfonts installed)) with fc-match in and it worked to me.
Could you please test it in your system? You can find packages here:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/M17N/openSUSE_11.3/
as soon as they are built.
Both packages installed fine. But where can I get the fontconfig that includes settings for Nanum fonts? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #32 from Petr Gajdos
Both packages installed fine. But where can I get the fontconfig that includes settings for Nanum fonts?
On the same place, that means
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/M17N/openSUSE_11.3/
in i586 or x86_64 subdirectory depending on your architecture. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #33 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #34 from Petr Gajdos
fontconfig-2.8.0-32.1.x86_64.rpm has a bug, NanumMyeongjo is serif, and NanumGothic is sans-serif. But the 58-suse-post-user.conf file has them in the wrong order. Except this, the fontconfig looks fine.
Oh, yes sorry. Fixed, please wait until fontconfig is built and double check. Thanks!
By the way, I'm not sure but is it unnecessary to add Nanum settings to 40-nonlatin.conf and 64-nonlatin.conf ? Because Unfonts (e.g. UnDotum) have settings in these files, too, but I'm not sure if these settings have any real effects, though.
I have noticed it too and I don't know, if it is neccesary. Because I do not much time for that now to figure it out, let's leave it now as it is until you or someone else will ;-). Ok? I would come up to 2, if all is alright now :-). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #35 from Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #36 from Bong Kim
I would switch on autohinting for unfonts. Should it be for NanumFonts as well?
Turning on autohinting (and/or hinting) is okay. In my case, just adding NanumFonts settings to the suse-post-user.conf file is enough - NanumFonts look great with the default fontconfig. By the way, I also use the personal desktop fonts configuration (is it a part of YAST2 ? I can't check because I'm on Windows XP at the moment) in order to turn "full" on autohint (or is it hinting?) and LCD subpixel rendering. I believe that just adding NanumFonts as default Korean fonts is a big improvement for many Korean OpenSUSE users. I hope that they will be included in 11.4. Thank you. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #38 from Petr Gajdos
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Petr Gajdos
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Stephan Kulow
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--- Comment #41 from Bong Kim
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--- Comment #42 from Bong Kim
sure. there might be just places in the installation that we need to take care of - so we'll need to ask Bong Kim to test factory installation once you changed the default.
Yes, I'm willing to help you. Just let me know when it's available. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Petr Gajdos
sure. there might be just places in the installation that we need to take care
How to ensure that nanum-fonts will be installed as default fonts instead of unfonts during korean installation? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Petr Gajdos
Yes, I'm willing to help you. Just let me know when it's available.
You should try some of milestone installation which contains unfonts. I suggest you to wait until*) 11.4-Milestone4 is present at http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/ soon and try its installation. Please use some virtualization tool rather than installing it on real machine -- it is devel version of next openSUSE. *) It should be really soon: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Roadmap Big THANKS -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #46 from Petr Gajdos
*) It should be really soon: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Roadmap
Not really so soon, it should be ready next week. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #47 from Petr Gajdos
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--- Comment #48 from Bong Kim
Fourth milestone is ready to testing:
http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/
Bong Kim, could you please go ahead and test Korean installation?
Greetings, I've installed using the OpenSUSE 11.4 (M4) KDE LiveCD and it seems okay. When installing Korean language, naum and naum-gothic-coding fonts are added. And naum fonts are preferred one over unfonts by default. One problem I've found is that by some fonts substitution rules in fontfonfig, some Korean web pages are still rendered in unfonts, and in this case, the ugly unfonts appear again like: http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/society/society_general/452180.html I think that the solution is to disable autohint for all Korean TTF fonts, because since freetype 2.4.X bytecode hinting has been implemented and autohint is not necessary for Korean TTF fonts. I can over-write autohinting in my personal ~/.fonts.conf file, but it will be better if the default fontconfig disables it for Korean TTF fonts by default. Cheers, -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355#c49
--- Comment #49 from Bong Kim
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355#c50
--- Comment #50 from Petr Gajdos
One problem I've found is that by some fonts substitution rules in fontfonfig, some Korean web pages are still rendered in unfonts, and in this case, the ugly unfonts appear again like:
http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/society/society_general/452180.html
I think that the solution is to disable autohint for all Korean TTF fonts, because since freetype 2.4.X bytecode hinting has been implemented and autohint is not necessary for Korean TTF fonts. I can over-write autohinting in my personal ~/.fonts.conf file, but it will be better if the default fontconfig disables it for Korean TTF fonts by default.
Unfortunately I do not have time for this now. If you want to have this change in 11.4, please create, propose and test patch against fontconfig in milestone 4 or M17N/fontconfig. (In reply to comment #49)
By the way, if you can contact the maintainer of OpenSUSE freetype package, please let him/her to compile it with TTF bytecode interpreter and the LCD filtering feature.
I believe that the fonts rendering of OpenSUSE can be improved. It is still not as good as Ubuntu(in default state) or Fedora(after freetype-freeworld package added), and I suspect that the OpenSUSE freetype package does not turn on all the bells and whistles. If I remember correctly, the patent has expired and it's free to use bytecode interpreter.
Different enhancement, please file a new bug for this. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=647355#c51
Petr Gajdos
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