[Bug 223407] New: font sizes yet smaller
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 Summary: font sizes yet smaller Product: openSUSE 10.2 Version: RC 1 Platform: x86 OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: Normal Priority: P5 - None Component: Installation AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: jengelh@gmx.de QAContact: jsrain@novell.com
From 10.2-beta2 to 10.2-RC1, the font sizes in the installer shrunk. They are already small FWIW.
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https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #1 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-11-23 01:21 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=106661) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=106661&action=view) 10.2-beta2 image -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #2 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-11-23 01:22 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=106662) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=106662&action=view) 10.2-rc1 image -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 aj@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team- |mfabian@novell.com |screening@forge.provo.novell| |.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #3 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-23 01:51 MST ------- I think that is a side effect of not using the autohinter anymore but using the TrueType instructions instead. Most fonts render a wee bit smaller when the TrueType instructions are used compared to when the autohinter is used. But with the sharper rendering, the readability is still better in my opinion. I agree though that the font size is a bit small and was already a bit small before. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #5 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-24 10:05 MST ------- Stefan, if you think the fonts are too small, please increase the sizes choosen by YaST2. If you think the font sizes are OK as they are, just close the bug. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED Component|Installation |Installation Product|openSUSE 10.2 |openSUSE 10.3 Version|RC 1 |Alpha 1 ------- Comment #6 from sh@novell.com 2006-11-27 03:55 MST ------- No, those fonts definitely are too smal. But since the font selection if-cascade was unchanged from the previous version I cannot undertand why. But it's too late for 10.2 now. Moving to 10.3. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #8 from sh@novell.com 2006-11-27 04:14 MST ------- That might very well be. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #9 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-11-27 04:16 MST ------- I will check that. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #10 from mrmazda@ij.net 2006-12-10 17:05 MST ------- They need to be bigger than they are now. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jengelh@gmx.de ------- Comment #11 from sh@novell.com 2006-12-11 03:43 MST ------- Jan, any news on comment #7? The output of "xdpyinfo" might be useful for that: It includes a "resolution" line that shows the dots per inch. If that differs very much from the output of "xdpyinfo" in an xterm on a plain X server (not VMWare) on the same monitor this points into that direction. Felix, how about you? Are you using VMware, too? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #12 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-12-11 05:29 MST ------- # DISPLAY=:0 xdpyinfo screen #0: dimensions: 800x600 pixels (271x203 millimeters) resolution: 75x75 dots per inch depths (7): 24, 1, 4, 8, 15, 16, 32 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 jengelh@gmx.de changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |ASSIGNED Info Provider|jengelh@gmx.de | ------- Comment #13 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-12-11 05:40 MST ------- What sure is also strange is that the graphical installer (the Qt thing - textmode framebuffer is ok) will only ever start in 800x600, even if I set higher modes in the bootloader. VMware 5.5.3, but also affected earlier versions, >= 5.5 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |mfabian@novell.com ------- Comment #14 from sh@novell.com 2006-12-11 06:39 MST ------- (In reply to comment #12)
# DISPLAY=:0 xdpyinfo screen #0: dimensions: 800x600 pixels (271x203 millimeters) resolution: 75x75 dots per inch
That seems to be the problem. You'll get a 75 dpi font, and I assume your display has 85 dpi or more: A 19" TFT with 1280x1024 pixels and 380x300 mm has 1280 / (380/25.4) = 85 dpi. A 75 dpi font will look considerably smaller on a 85 dpi display. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #15 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-12-11 06:42 MST ------- Host runs at 1280x1024 in 96 dpi (dpi manually set), 19" CRT. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |sndirsch@novell.com ------- Comment #16 from sh@novell.com 2006-12-11 06:50 MST ------- (In reply to comment #15)
Host runs at 1280x1024 in 96 dpi (dpi manually set), 19" CRT.
That's probably more dpi than it actually has. This will make the 75 dpi font look even smaller - it's two orders smaller than it should be. I just asked around if any of our VMware experts knows how to set the dpi in VMware, but so far nobody could come up with a solution. Stefan? Mike? Any idea? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #17 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-12-11 06:53 MST -------
That's probably more dpi than it actually has. This will make the 75 dpi font look even smaller - it's two orders smaller than it should be.
Possibly that it has like 87 dpi. However, VMware puts the guest in its fixed window (640x480, 800x600, whatever you choose) and that's all I care about. If I actually want VMware to pick up more screen space (as in millimeters), I turn down the resolution. The "bug" here has nothing to do with the host system -- even if I used a 17" CRT monitor, the fonts inside VMware would(*) possibly be this small, at 75 dpi. (*) I just really hope that VMware does not propagate the host DPI to the virtual graphic card somehow. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX ------- Comment #18 from sh@novell.com 2006-12-11 08:07 MST ------- (In reply to comment #17)
down the resolution. The "bug" here has nothing to do with the host system -- even if I used a 17" CRT monitor, the fonts inside VMware would(*) possibly be this small, at 75 dpi.
No. That's exactly the point. If the dpi inside VMware are much different from the dpi of your host display, of course the fonts look differently.
(*) I just really hope that VMware does not propagate the host DPI to the virtual graphic card somehow.
I have no clue how VMware does that. It would make sense to propagate that value -- you just experienced what happens it if doesn't do that. I am afraid there is nothing I can do in this case. This is a setting that has to be changed in VMware. Status "CANTFIX" would be appropriate here, but Bugzilla doesn't have that. => WONTFIX -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #19 from mrmazda@ij.net 2006-12-11 11:34 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109202) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109202&action=view) 800px wide (vga=normal) 72 DPI 10.2 final screenshot showing ~10pt fonts dominate Looks far from CANTFIX to me. Simply bumping the basepoint font size a pt or two should go a long way to eliminating the problem. The installer is not an ordinary app window that needs to share space with other apps. This is fullscreen. There's no good reason not to use it all. Removing unnecessary whitespace will provide a good fit for a bigger font. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #20 from mrmazda@ij.net 2006-12-11 11:34 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109203) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109203&action=view) 1280px wide (vga=0x31a) 96 DPI 10.2 final screenshot showing plenty room for a slightly larger font -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #21 from mrmazda@ij.net 2006-12-11 11:37 MST ------- No vmware here. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #22 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-12-11 11:57 MST ------- I just wonder what changed between beta2 and rc1 (see screenshots), because VMware remained the same, hence always reported the same EDID, same DPI, etc. Do you still have the beta2 CD1 so I can look into it? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #23 from sh@novell.com 2006-12-12 03:30 MST ------- (In reply to comment #19)
Looks far from CANTFIX to me. Simply bumping the basepoint font size a pt or two should go a long way to eliminating the problem.
If I increase the font size, some dialogs will no longer fit on the screen in 800x600. Been there, done that. Had to revert the change. Those font sizes will always be a compromise between the minimal hardware requirements (by now 800x600) and display sizes. Some displays will only get 800x600 even though they are 19" or larger - because the graphics card does not support any better VESA mode (which is used during installation). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #24 from jengelh@gmx.de 2006-12-12 09:22 MST -------
some dialogs will no longer fit on the screen in 800x600
What dialogs would that be? Probably only the pop up ones (i.e. the root window should get everything right.)
Been there, done that. Had to revert the change.
I am sure enlarging the font sizes puts more strain on dialogs, but how much bigger did you actually make them? What if their size was just raised by 1px? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #25 from mrmazda@ij.net 2006-12-12 10:23 MST ------- (In reply to comment #24)
What if their size was just raised by 1px?
Only the lazy and the clueless size in px text and text containers that must work in a wide range of resolutions and display sizes. 1pt would likely be enough. A redesign should permit a 1pt-2pt size increase to fit all dialogs. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407 ------- Comment #26 from sh@novell.com 2006-12-12 10:35 MST ------- (In reply to comment #25)
Only the lazy and the clueless size in px text and text containers that must work in a wide range of resolutions and display sizes. 1pt would likely be enough. A redesign should permit a 1pt-2pt size increase to fit all dialogs.
Feel free to write your own installer that takes all that into account. Or stop telling me how to do my job. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407#c27
--- Comment #27 from Jan Engelhardt
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407
Jan Engelhardt
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223407#c28
--- Comment #28 from Mike Fabian
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