https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c1 --- Comment #1 from Felix Miata 2008-05-22 13:52:23 MST --- Created an attachment (id=217621) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=217621) screenshot clockwise from lower left: 1-kcmshell xserver (KDE3 font chooser) 2-Konq 3-SeaMonkey 4-Firefox 2.9.95-21 5-Epiphany 6-Opera Note that on none of my systems do I believe the byte code interpreter is enabled in freetype, but I don't know how to confirm that. Note too that FF has a problem with web page font stroke weight, which the others do not have, that seems similar to the menu fonts and could be related. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mfabian@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c2 Mike Fabian changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #2 from Mike Fabian 2008-05-26 07:11:11 MDT --- Felix Miyata> Note that on none of my systems do I believe the byte Felix Miyata> code interpreter is enabled in freetype, but I don't Felix Miyata> know how to confirm that. You have the byte code interpreter enabled. The sharpness of the vertical lines menu fonts in epiphany and firefox confirms this. In KDE, you use Hinting style "Medium". Don’t do that, use Hinting style "Full" otherwise the byte code interpreter will not be used and you get blurry fonts. Felix Miyata> Note too that FF has a problem with web page font stroke Felix Miyata> weight, which the others do not have, that seems similar Felix Miyata> to the menu fonts and could be related. Actually the firefox screenshot is the only one which shows the good truetype fonts (Arial, Albany AMT, Verdana, DejaVu Sans, Liberation Sans, Vera Sans) rendered sharply with the byte code interpreter, i.e. the only one who renders them well in your screenshot. "Luxi Sans" looks bolder in your screenshot in firefox because it is a font which doesn’t have good byte code. Same for FreeSans. Nimbus Sans L is a Postscript font which doesn’t render as sharply as TrueType fonts with good byte code either. "Helvetica" is probably "Adobe Helvetica" which is a bitmap font. Use reasonable hinting settings! → INVALID. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c4 --- Comment #4 from Felix Miata 2008-05-26 11:09:29 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218170) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218170) same as 217621 - with albw.ttf & arial.ttf in font path, but with hinting style full -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c6 --- Comment #6 from Felix Miata 2008-05-26 11:09:47 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218172) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218172) screenshot of same source as 217621 on WinXP without Cleartype enabled -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c8 --- Comment #8 from Felix Miata 2008-05-26 11:10:24 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218174) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218174) screenshot on Max 0S X This is same URL as used for attachment 217621 taken of Safari 3.1.1. Note for the fonts actually installed how similar they are to Opera, SeaMonkey, Konq3 & Epiphany, and how much different from FF3, with hinting medium, and regardless whether albw.ttf and/or arial.ttf are installed. This is how I prefer all my fonts to look, because they carry enough stroke weight to actually see. Whether they are properly characterized as byte code interpreted, anti-aliased, unenhanced or anything else is irrelevant to me. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mfabian@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c10 --- Comment #10 from Mike Fabian 2008-05-26 11:42:14 MDT --- reply to comment #3: Felix Miyata> screenshot same as attachment 217621 [details] except Felix Miyata> with neither albw.ttf nor arial.ttf in font path It is obvious that even here Firefox renders the menu font much sharper than konqueror because your "medium" hintsetting in KDE. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mfabian@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c12 --- Comment #12 from Mike Fabian 2008-05-26 11:52:32 MDT --- Felix Miyata> Created an attachment (id=218171) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218171) [details] Felix Miyata> same as 217621 but with neither albw.ttf nor arial.ttf Felix Miyata> in font path, & with Felix Miyata> hinting style full Again, Konqueror and Firefox render the font the same way now. The font is probably "Sans Serif", you can check which font this expands to with fc-match sans When Arial/Albany AMT are installed this will probably expand to Arial or Albany AMT on your system, when they are not installed it will expand to a font which renders considerably bolder at the same point size (probably "DejaVu Sans" and probably your have just the dpi where "DejaVu Sans" switches to 2 pixels stem width at the default point size. Fontsizes differ somewhat for the same point size for fonts of different makers, DejaVu is a bit bigger at the same point size than Arial. If you increas the size a little bit, Arial will also switch to 2 pixel stem with. This is obvious when the byte code interpreter is used, with the autohinter (hintstyle medium forces the autohinter) the blurriness prevents a obvious transition from 1 pixel stem width to 2 pixel stem width). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mfabian@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c14 --- Comment #14 from Mike Fabian 2008-05-26 11:57:24 MDT --- My last comment refered the screenshot with Cleartype disabled, of course. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mfabian@novell.com added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c16 Mike Fabian changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #16 from Mike Fabian 2008-05-26 12:18:03 MDT --- Felix Miyata> Created an attachment (id=218174) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218174) [details] Felix Miyata> screenshot on Max 0S X Felix Miyata> Felix Miyata> This is same URL as used for attachment 217621 [details] Felix Miyata> taken of Safari 3.1.1. Note for the fonts actually Felix Miyata> installed how similar they are to Opera, SeaMonkey, Felix Miyata> Konq3 & Epiphany, and how much different from FF3, with Felix Miyata> hinting medium, and regardless whether albw.ttf and/or Felix Miyata> arial.ttf are installed. This is how I prefer all my Felix Miyata> fonts to look, because they carry enough stroke weight Felix Miyata> to actually see. Whether they are properly characterized Felix Miyata> as byte code interpreted, anti-aliased, unenhanced or Felix Miyata> anything else is irrelevant to me. This Mac OS X screenshot is without subpixel hinting (contrary to the "Cleartype" screenshots where you can clearly see the colours (magnify if you don’t see it!)). This hintstyle is a lot bolder and blurrier than using byte code hinting. You can come closest to this style on openSUSE by using the autohinter with full or medium hinting, antialiasing on and subpixel hinting off. I.e. the following settings in ~/.fonts.conf: <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba"> <const>none</const> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hinting" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle" > <const>hintfull</const> (or hintmedium here) </edit> </match> <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="antialias" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> I think this is far uglier than the sharpness achieved by the byte code interpreter. But tastes differ. I have to close this as INVALID because there is nothing wrong with Arial/Albany AMT in the path. They just happen to have good byte code and are rather small at the default point size. There’s nothing wrong with that. And there is no difference how Konqueror and Firefox handle these, if you use the same hinting settings, both will render them the same way. It is not nice that KDE/Gnome set this differently (KDE writes to ~/.fonts.conf and Gnome sets X-Resources) but you can still achieve the same look and feel if you use equivalent settings for both desktops. Neither of the desktops currently has an option to use the byte code interpreter, i.e. <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match> in your ~/.fonts.conf or the autohinter, i.e. <match target="font" > <edit mode="assign" name="autohint" > <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> (byte code interpreter must be compiled into freetype2 otherwise autohint=false will look terribly blurry. The byte code interpreter is compiled into freetype2 by default on openSUSE). That the desktops set this in different ways and if you set it up in KDE it doesn’t automatically use the same settings in Gnome and vice versa is not nice. This should be improved in the future, currently I recommend to set equivalent settings manually in both desktops. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c18 --- Comment #18 from Felix Miata 2008-05-27 10:45:31 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218372) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218372) testcase - metric rearranged sort of /etc/fonts/suse-post-user.conf 11.0b3+ Same as attachment 218371 except for initial font size is 10pt instead of 16px, and that rows are rearranged so that closest overall size matches to the top family in each section of /etc/fonts/suse-post-user.conf precede poorer matches. The order is based on 16px and hinting style set to medium. At other sizes and hinting settings, differences among families vary, and closest match order varies accordingly. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c20 --- Comment #20 from Felix Miata 2008-05-28 00:35:20 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218506) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218506) testcase - expansion of attachment 218394 Instead of using just CSS menu, this also includes explicitly the following: Arial Albany AMT Nimbus Sans L Liberation Sans DejaVu Sans sans-serif -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c21 Felix Miata changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment #218506|0 |1 is obsolete| | --- Comment #21 from Felix Miata 2008-05-28 11:02:21 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218688) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218688) testcase - aid to identification of the font-size used for UI text forgot to force monospace when requested font not available -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c23 Felix Miata changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | Summary|albw.ttf and/or arial.ttf in font path make |Use my KDE fonts in GTK applications is not in |Epiphany and Firefox 3 use wrong menu fonts |effect for CSS menu fonts used by Gecko | |applications --- Comment #23 from Felix Miata 2008-05-28 22:23:02 MDT --- Old summary "albw.ttf and/or arial.ttf in font path make Epiphany and Firefox 3 use wrong menu fonts" change to conform to described behavior. New summary for reopen: "Use my KDE fonts in GTK applications is not in effect for CSS Menu fonts used by Gecko applications." The only way I've been able to find to get the Geckos to use my choice of font for the menus is to move my choice to the first row of sans-serif in /etc/fonts/suse-post-user.conf. This also appears to be the case in KDE4, which I only tested in current Mandriva Cooker (because that's the only place I have as yet installed KDE4 and figured out how to get to do what I need to do). What I did not yet manage there was to figure out how to enable GTK apps to use KDE fonts, though I suspect that's the default setting as it is with KDE3 in Factory. So, valid bug, but apparently upstream problem in whatever is responsible for getting GTK browsers to use KDE menu fonts. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c25 --- Comment #25 from Felix Miata 2008-05-28 22:26:53 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218768) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218768) screenshot of Firefox, SeaMonkey & Konq4 using Verdana via alias instead of Liberation Sans via KControl -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c27 --- Comment #27 from Felix Miata 2008-05-28 22:33:00 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218770) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218770) screenshot of Firefox & SeaMonkey using Albany AMT via alias instead of Liberation Sans via KControl -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 Felix Miata changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment #218767|screenshot of Firefox, SeaMonkey & Konq4 using |screenshot of Firefox & SeaMonkey using Albany description|Albany AMT via alias instead of Liberation Sans |AMT via alias instead of Liberation Sans via |via KControl |KControl (with Konq4, in Cooker) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c29 Felix Miata changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment #218688|0 |1 is obsolete| | --- Comment #29 from Felix Miata 2008-05-28 22:39:23 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=218773) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=218773) testcase - attachment 218688 with Verdana added -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 Felix Miata changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment #218174|screenshot on Max 0S X |screenshot on Mac 0S X description| | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 Mike Fabian changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|mfabian@novell.com |hvogel@novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748 User mrmazda@ij.net added comment https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=393748#c32 --- Comment #32 from Felix Miata 2009-03-09 09:06:56 MST --- This has gone very stale in my mind, but based on comment 23 & comment 30 it does look like an upstream problem. I probably should test Fedora & Kubuntu when I can find time (which includes learning how to do in KDE4 what just works in KDE3), just to be sure. I now searched bugzilla.mozilla.org for all the words in comment "css menu gtk kde font" and found only one old WORKSFORME bug (not on point). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.