[Bug 223511] New: It is now impossible to have a beagle-free system
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 Summary: It is now impossible to have a beagle-free system Product: openSUSE 10.2 Version: RC 1 Platform: All OS/Version: All Status: NEW Severity: Blocker Priority: P5 - None Component: X11 Applications AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de QAContact: sndirsch@novell.com It seems that libbeagle now requires beagle: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-commit/2006-11/msg01271.html This is a Blocker for me because I definitely don't want to have it and the dependency chain means that GNOME can't be used anymore: - nautilus (part of core GNOME) links to libbeagle; the libbeagle -> beagle dependency means that in order to get rid of beagle, I would have to uninstall nautilus. But nautilus is required in order to draw the desktop. - yelp (part of core GNOME) links to libbeagle; the libbeagle -> beagle dependency means that in order to get rid of beagle, I would have to uninstall yelp and live without a help viewer. And starting with nautilus and yelp, I would have to remove the whole desktop because of recursive dependencies: libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) totem-2.17.0-20.i586 libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) nautilus-open-terminal-0.7-20.i586 libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) nautilus-cd-burner-2.16.1-19.i586 libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) nautilus-sendto-0.7-21.i586 libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) nautilus-share-0.7.0-21.i586 libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) control-center2-2.16.1-21.i586 libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) file-roller-2.16.1-19.i586 libnautilus-extension.so.1 is needed by (installed) gnome-mount-0.5-2.i586 nautilus is needed by (installed) nautilus-cd-burner-2.16.1-19.i586 nautilus is needed by (installed) nautilus-sendto-0.7-21.i586 nautilus is needed by (installed) control-center2-2.16.1-21.i586 nautilus = 2.16.1 is needed by (installed) nautilus-devel-2.16.1-23.i586 yelp is needed by (installed) evolution-2.8.1-18.i586 IF you want to enforce that beagle is installed if libbeagle is installed, please use "Recommends" instead of "Requires" so it can at least be removed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 stbinner@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |aj@novell.com, stbinner@novell.com AssignedTo|bnc-team- |bnc-team-gnome@forge.provo.novell.com |screening@forge.provo.novell| |.com | Component|X11 Applications |GNOME QAContact|sndirsch@novell.com |qa@suse.de Summary|It is now impossible to have|It is now impossible to have a beagle-free GNOME |a beagle-free system | ------- Comment #1 from stbinner@novell.com 2006-11-23 14:37 MST ------- I would think it's a political decision to require Beagle in GNOME (otherwise the functionality would be implemented via plugins and be in sub-packages like done for KDE)? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #2 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-11-23 15:22 MST ------- Applications that link to libbeagle are working just fine without beagle installed/running. Yelp, for example, has just the searchbox greyed out. I don't know if it's a political decision to require beagle. It is certainly recommended, that's why it is in the patterns, but it is in the patterns as recommended and not as required. I don't see how e.g. yelp should be fixed, it is a single executable with no visible traces of plugin support whatsoever. Either the executable is linked to libbeagle or it is not. It's probably more a technical restriction than a political decision to enforce beagle usage. Actually I think that the libbeagle -> beagle dependency is the problem because it has been added in the assumption that applications which link to libbeagle require beagle. This is true for some of libbeagle's consumers, but not all. I consider this a serious regression because this always worked in the past. I can easily build an empty package to satisfy the dependency locally, but you will get feedback from other users because as useful as beagle is, many users simply don't want to know anything about it and it's the 2nd most popular removal candidate after zmd among the openSUSE audience. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #3 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-11-23 16:11 MST ------- There are applications which are completely useless without beagle installed. Examples include search tools that use beagle as the only backend and can't do anything useful if beagle is not present. These should have a hard dependency on beagle. And there are applications which can do useful things if beagle is unavailable, but can do even more useful things if beagle is available. For this type of applications, a hard dependency chain on beagle is just fake. Looking at how things worked in the past, I assume that it's possible to use the libbeagle API in such a way that the application does not get a hard dependency on beagle, otherwise Yelp would crash or refuse to run if beagle is not there, and not grey out its searchbox. So I conclude that libbeagle -> beagle is not the right place to insert a hard dependency, but the applications that build on top of libbeagle should decide themselves how much they need beagle. Without having any background information about political decisions wrt. these desktop daemons, I assume that there is none, see bug 198415 for a similar case. These are both classical cases for a soft dependency. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #4 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-11-23 19:03 MST ------- Not to mention that it bloats up the build dependencies of half of GNOME (and also some KDE packages): They now have to wait for things like epiphany, evolution, gtk-sharp2, mozilla-xulrunner181 and xpdf even though they don't actually use them. This happens for all packages that build-depend directly or indirectly on libbeagle, they now also build-depend on beagle's #usedforbuild which is almost twice as long as that of libbeagle: Mesa Mesa-devel PolicyKit aaa_base acl alsa alsa-devel art-sharp2 aspell atk atk-devel attr audiofile audiofile-devel audit-libs autoconf automake bash bind-libs bind-utils binutils bison bzip2 cairo cairo-devel coreutils cpio cpp cpp41 cracklib cups-libs cvs cyrus-sasl db dbus-1 dbus-1-devel dbus-1-glib dbus-1-glib-devel dbus-1-x11 desktop-data-SuSE desktop-translations diffutils e2fsprogs epiphany epiphany-devel esound esound-devel evolution evolution-data-server evolution-sharp expat file filesystem fillup findutils flex fontconfig fontconfig-devel freetype2 freetype2-devel gail gawk gcc gcc41 gconf-sharp2 gconf2 gconf2-devel gdbm gdbm-devel gettext gettext-devel giflib glade-sharp2 glib-sharp glib-sharp2 glib2 glib2-devel glibc glibc-devel glibc-locale glitz glitz-devel gmime gmime-devel gnome-desktop gnome-filesystem gnome-icon-theme gnome-keyring gnome-keyring-devel gnome-menus gnome-panel gnome-sharp2 gnome-spell2 gnome-vfs-sharp2 gnome-vfs2 gnome-vfs2-devel gnutls gpm grep groff gsf-sharp gtk-sharp2 gtk-sharp2-gapi gtk2 gtk2-devel gtkhtml2 gtksourceview gzip hal hal-devel info insserv intltool iso-codes klogd krb5 less libacl libart_lgpl libart_lgpl-devel libattr libbonobo libbonobo-devel libbonoboui libbonoboui-devel libcom_err libcroco libcroco-devel libdrm libexif libgcc41 libgcrypt libgdiplus libglade2 libglade2-devel libgnome libgnome-devel libgnomecanvas libgnomecanvas-devel libgnomeprint libgnomeprintui libgnomesu libgnomeui libgnomeui-devel libgpg-error libgsf libgsf-devel libgsf-gnome libidl libjpeg libjpeg-devel libltdl libmudflap41 libnotify libnscd libpng libpng-devel librsvg librsvg-devel libsexy libsoup libstdc++41 libtiff libtool libusb libvolume_id libwmf libwmf-devel libwmf-gnome libwnck libxcrypt libxml2 libxml2-devel libxslt libzio linux-kernel-headers m4 mDNSResponder-lib make man mktemp module-init-tools mono-basic mono-core mono-data mono-data-sqlite mono-devel mono-web mono-winforms mozilla-nspr mozilla-nss mozilla-xulrunner181 ncurses ncurses-devel net-tools netcfg notification-daemon openldap2-client openssl openssl-devel orbit2 orbit2-devel pam pam-modules pango pango-devel patch perl perl-Digest-HMAC perl-Digest-SHA1 perl-HTML-Parser perl-HTML-Tagset perl-IO-Zlib perl-Net-DNS perl-Net-IP perl-URI perl-XML-LibXML perl-XML-LibXML-Common perl-XML-NamespaceSupport perl-XML-Parser perl-XML-SAX perl-libwww-perl perl-spamassassin permissions pkgconfig pm-utils pmtools popt popt-devel procinfo procps psmisc pwdutils python python-cairo python-gnome python-gobject2 python-gtk python-numeric python-orbit rcs readline resmgr rpm sed shared-mime-info spamassassin sqlite2 sqlite2-devel startup-notification strace sysvinit tango-icon-theme tar tcpd texinfo timezone unzip update-alternatives update-desktop-files util-linux vim w3m wv wv-devel xorg-x11-devel xorg-x11-fonts-devel xorg-x11-libICE xorg-x11-libICE-devel xorg-x11-libSM xorg-x11-libSM-devel xorg-x11-libX11 xorg-x11-libX11-devel xorg-x11-libXau xorg-x11-libXau-devel xorg-x11-libXdmcp xorg-x11-libXdmcp-devel xorg-x11-libXext xorg-x11-libXext-devel xorg-x11-libXfixes xorg-x11-libXfixes-devel xorg-x11-libXmu xorg-x11-libXmu-devel xorg-x11-libXp xorg-x11-libXp-devel xorg-x11-libXpm xorg-x11-libXpm-devel xorg-x11-libXprintUtil xorg-x11-libXprintUtil-devel xorg-x11-libXrender xorg-x11-libXrender-devel xorg-x11-libXt xorg-x11-libXt-devel xorg-x11-libXv xorg-x11-libXv-devel xorg-x11-libfontenc xorg-x11-libfontenc-devel xorg-x11-libs xorg-x11-libxkbfile xorg-x11-libxkbfile-devel xorg-x11-proto-devel xorg-x11-util-devel xorg-x11-xtrans-devel zip zlib zlib-devel (Doesn't this render the change that libbeagle is built from its own spec file pretty much useless? Are there really no unbreakable loops?) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #5 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-11-23 22:20 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=106788) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=106788&action=view) Simulating the impact of this change, part 1 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #6 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-11-23 22:20 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=106789) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=106789&action=view) Simulating the impact of this change, part 2 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #7 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-11-23 22:32 MST ------- Why has this change been introduced and accepted(?) after RC1 and after several weeks of Beta-testing without a single bugreport about beagle dependencies, which problem does it solve, what does it make better and is there really no way to just get a less intrusive fix for this (unknown, or at least from the changelog entry unclear) problem? I won't believe that there is a polical decision to enforce beagle usage in GNOME until someone clearly says so, it does not make any sense because this has never been the case in any earlier release and the change does not seem to originate from the GNOME side unless you have really weird commit practices. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 jpr@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team- |stbinner@novell.com |gnome@forge.provo.novell.com| ------- Comment #8 from jpr@novell.com 2006-11-23 22:37 MST ------- This was not a decision of the GNOME team, Stefan and AJ this does not seem right at all. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 aj@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED ------- Comment #9 from aj@novell.com 2006-11-23 23:19 MST ------- Let's revert the change, I did not see the consequences when I let this in. Thanks for catching this. Fixed package submitted. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #10 from stbinner@novell.com 2006-11-24 01:08 MST -------
Applications that link to libbeagle are working just fine without beagle installed/running.
Not if the whole purpose of the application/[sub-]package is the Beagle functionality - which is the case for all KDE packages which depend on libbeagle.
Yelp, for example, has just the searchbox greyed out.
Without giving the user any hint how to make it usable? That's bad GUI design. Always unavailable (system modifications excluded) functionality should not be visible in the interface.
it is a single executable with no visible traces of plugin support whatsoever. [..] It's probably more a technical restriction
There are no technical restrictions, as you said one could implement it as plugin.
There are applications which are completely useless without beagle installed. Examples include search tools that use beagle as the only backend and can't do anything useful if beagle is not present. These should have a hard dependency on beagle.
I added now hard Beagle dependencies for the affected KDE packages.
Not to mention that it bloats up the build dependencies of half of GNOME
You confuse "BuildRequires:" and "Requires:" keywords. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #11 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-11-24 01:16 MST ------- (In reply to comment #10)
You confuse "BuildRequires:" and "Requires:" keywords.
No, I do not confuse keywords. Doesn't "Requires:" effectively get folded into "BuildRequires:"? A buildrequires B B requires C => A effectively needs both B and C at build time as if it would buildrequire B and C, even though it buildrequires only B directly. If not, the buildsystem is broken. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #12 from aj@novell.com 2006-11-24 01:22 MST ------- Andreas, you're right, all requires of package B are implicit buildrequires of package A. Stephan, does this mean, I cannot install a KDE system anymore without beagle? That would not be correct. The minimal KDE and GNOME desktops - as we deliver them on SLES and via our BASIS patterns - should not require beagle at all (libbeagle is fine). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #13 from stbinner@novell.com 2006-11-24 01:42 MST -------
does this mean, I cannot install a KDE system anymore without beagle?
Why? Kerry as in RC1 did btw have a direct dependency on Beagle. And KDE-BASIS only *recommends* kerry, kio_beagle, kdebase3-beagle. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=223511 ------- Comment #14 from aj@novell.com 2006-11-24 01:47 MST ------- In that case my question is answered positevely: I still can install a KDE system without beagle. Thanks, case closed for me ;-) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
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