[Bug 725917] New: System is switched from sysvinit to systemd while upgrade
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c0 Summary: System is switched from sysvinit to systemd while upgrade Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 12.1 Version: RC 1 Platform: Other OS/Version: Other Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: Update Problems AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: lmuelle@suse.com QAContact: jsrain@suse.com Found By: Development Blocker: --- This was an openSUSE 11.4 and withe the upgrade to 12.1 RC 1 /sbin/init pointed to systemd. Systemd should only be enabled with fresh installs and not while an upgrade. The upgrade was performed via "zypper dup". -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c1 Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #1 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> 2011-10-22 21:03:53 CEST --- your statement is untrue -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c2 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #2 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-10-23 21:41:09 CEST --- No. After the upgrade /sbin/init pointed to systemd. And it broke a formerly working system. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c3 Ludwig Nussel <lnussel@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |lnussel@suse.com --- Comment #3 from Ludwig Nussel <lnussel@suse.com> 2011-10-26 14:22:32 CEST --- The split provides is in systemd-sysvinit so replacement of sysvinit by systemd on upgrade is expected behavior. Is it intentional so too? :-) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c Ludwig Nussel <lnussel@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |coolo@suse.com |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c4 Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #4 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> 2011-10-26 15:20:07 CEST --- if systemd breaks something, file a bug report. But "Systemd should only be enabled with fresh installs" is INVALID. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c5 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #5 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-10-26 17:24:25 CEST --- If you're unhappy with the subject of the bug report modify it, please. But do not close valid bug reports. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c6 Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #6 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> 2011-10-27 07:20:04 CEST --- I don't close valid bug reports, I close INVALID ones. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c7 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #7 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-10-27 13:34:10 CEST --- This bug report already had a valid subject. Please state next time why you believe this bug report is invalid and how the subject could be improved. BTW your ignorant and arrogant habit doesn't motivate people to test and use openSUSE further. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c8 Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|coolo@suse.com |freitag@suse.com Summary|System is switched from |Coolo is ignorant and |sysvinit to systemd while |arrogant |upgrade | --- Comment #8 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> 2011-10-27 13:44:00 CEST --- Klaas, yours to fix obviously. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c9 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Summary|Coolo is ignorant and |System is switched from |arrogant |sysvinit to systemd while | |upgrade --- Comment #9 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-10-27 16:47:10 CEST --- Reset bug summary. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c10 Jean-Daniel Dodin <jdd@dodin.org> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jdd@dodin.org --- Comment #10 from Jean-Daniel Dodin <jdd@dodin.org> 2011-10-28 14:28:20 UTC --- and if people do not understand, this is not a bug but a feature. Like it or not is an other story... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c11 Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |NEEDINFO CC| |mkubecek@suse.com InfoProvider| |lmuelle@suse.com --- Comment #11 from Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> 2011-11-10 13:30:07 UTC --- Lars, did you replace the systemd-sysvinit package with sysvinit-init or just relinked the /sbin/init symlink? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c12 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |sweet_f_a@gmx.de --- Comment #12 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2011-11-10 14:13:02 UTC --- (In reply to comment #10)
and if people do not understand, this is not a bug but a feature. Like it or not is an other story...
It is a bug. There are people using sysvinit for good reasons. Having installed many self written init scripts for different kinds of things. With such setup it's very likely that you will run into trubble if you just switch to systemd without testing it. Getting systemd without being noticed about it makes it even worse. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c13 Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |REOPENED InfoProvider|lmuelle@suse.com | --- Comment #13 from Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> 2011-11-10 14:29:15 UTC --- I'm sorry, I misunderstood the problem. After reading again carefully, I agree with comment #10. Unfortunately it's probably too late to do accept it even if there were good will (which I doubt). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c14 --- Comment #14 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2011-11-11 00:33:04 UTC --- (In reply to comment #13)
I'm sorry, I misunderstood the problem. After reading again carefully, I agree with comment #10.
Reading between your lines I assume you agree with #12 instead of #10 right?
Unfortunately it's probably too late to do accept it even if there were good will (which I doubt).
Coolo's "ignorant and arrogant" behavior (pointed out by himself, see Bug Activity) was not really helpful to speed up things ... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c15 --- Comment #15 from Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> 2011-11-11 13:23:30 UTC --- (In reply to comment #14)
Reading between your lines I assume you agree with #12 instead of #10 right?
Not really. I don't consider it a bug. IMHO it is a design decision. Certainly one which I personally do not like but I would prefer systemd not to be default even for clean install as I don't consider it reliable enough yet. But this decision has been taken and I have to live with it. As long as there is working SysVinit and an easy way to switch to it, I can do that. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c16 --- Comment #16 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-11-11 18:49:45 CET --- As the development of openSUSE 12.1 finished all we can do is to document this as a known issue. Please check http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Most_annoying_bugs_12.1 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c17 --- Comment #17 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2011-11-11 18:03:26 UTC --- systemd-sysvinit(In reply to comment #16)
As the development of openSUSE 12.1 finished all we can do is to document this as a known issue. Please check http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Most_annoying_bugs_12.1
Does blacklisting systemd-sysvinit package _before_ zypper up also work? If so then I would prefer to describe this as the safest way to never ever switch to systemd by mistake. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
From recent discussions on the different openSUSE lists about systemd it looks
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c18 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED --- Comment #18 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-11-12 18:19:05 CET --- I consider blacklisting - zypper lock or from inside the YaST UI - an approach we should not recommend to our users. I expect sysvinit to vanish completely in two or three releases as soon as the systemd stack settles more and more. Guess we suggest to lock systemd-sysvinit. In two years when the users upgrade their systems they no longer have the motivation to lock the package in mind. Then libzypp will run into an unresolvable situation. Therefore I strongly vote against suggesting a lock of the systemd-sysvinit package. Adding some additional magic to libzypp to handle all this causes extra work too and would be yet another level of indirection causing at the end more and more hassle. Over all the decision - as much as I don't like it - is the right approach. We have to focus on one technical solution and make this solution a nicely and smooth working one. That's what Frederic is working hard on. It's nor our obligation to help him as much as possible to make systemd smoothly fly with the next release. like the systemd documentation is one major piece which needs our attention in the recent future. @Ruediger + Klaas: Feel free to close this issue as resolved/worksforme if non of you doesn't have a more elegant solution at hand. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c19 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|FIXED | --- Comment #19 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-11-12 18:21:35 CET --- I reopen the report due to an unintentional status change to Status RESOLVED with Resolution FIXED. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c20 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |CLOSED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #20 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2011-11-12 19:12:44 UTC --- How about making systemd-sysvinit and systemd-sysvinit(In reply to comment #18)
I consider blacklisting - zypper lock or from inside the YaST UI - an approach we should not recommend to our users.
On the other hand installing something just to deinstall it is IMO an absolutely inacceptable workflow which I wouldn't teach anybody. I'd rather rsync the blacklist across my host pool to be safe. Maybe there is another way without blacklisting? What about zypper in systemd-sysvinit before zypper up
I expect sysvinit to vanish completely in two or three releases as soon as the systemd stack settles more and more.
Hope not.
Over all the decision - as much as I don't like it - is the right approach. We have to focus on one technical solution and make this solution a nicely and smooth working one. That's what Frederic is working hard on. It's nor our obligation to help him as much as possible to make systemd smoothly fly with the next release.
Personally I don't have any use case for systemd so I can't really help except supporting bug reports where systemd breaks sysvinit. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c21 --- Comment #21 from Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> 2011-11-12 21:42:29 UTC --- (In reply to comment #18)
I expect sysvinit to vanish completely in two or three releases as soon as the systemd stack settles more and more.
Guess we suggest to lock systemd-sysvinit. In two years when the users upgrade their systems they no longer have the motivation to lock the package in mind.
Then libzypp will run into an unresolvable situation. Therefore I strongly vote against suggesting a lock of the systemd-sysvinit package.
I don't see this as a problem. If this ever happens (and I still hope it won't), zypper will tell you it can't do the upgrade because of the lock, so you remove the lock. Or maybe if systemd wins some day and sysvinit is removed completely, there won't be a need for a package named systemd-sysvinit so that the lock won't be a problem at all. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c22 Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Version|RC 1 |Final Resolution|WONTFIX |WORKSFORME --- Comment #22 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-11-13 14:35:27 CET --- Unfortunately nobody replied on comment#3 Closing this one with resolution wonfix is the wrong resolution. Due to the documented fix in the wiki I set it to worksforme. Nevertheless I appreciate an additional comment from Klaas too. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c23 --- Comment #23 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2011-11-13 14:32:04 UTC --- Sry (In reply to comment #22)
Unfortunately nobody replied on comment#3
Yes, maybe switching from sysvinit to systemd by default was the intention of the packager thus he would expect that bahaviour of course. But others/users do not expect their system to be broken so it's a bug and certainly one of the most annoying ones.
Closing this one with resolution wonfix is the wrong resolution. Due to the documented fix in the wiki I set it to worksforme.
Sorry, closing the issue at all was my mistake. Haven't even noticed that I closed it. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c24 Bruno Friedmann <bruno@ioda-net.ch> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |bruno@ioda-net.ch --- Comment #24 from Bruno Friedmann <bruno@ioda-net.ch> 2011-11-13 17:44:24 UTC --- I don't understand the hell here. I've upgraded 4 computers from 11.4 to 12.1 and no-one has trouble even with raid + lvm encryption and lot of stuff on them. the question is : @Lars did you get also the sysvinit package installed. if yes (and it should be) then booting with old initv is simple as adding init=/sbin/sysvinit on the boot line. End of trouble, and the easier way I known about having a computer booting with init v if you not get it installed, then I think that Yast2 logs, and zypper dup history file would have help as attachement here. I know that some init script could trouble systemd, but only if they do thing that are not in the normal action list. Then as a temporary fix, some wrapper need to be created. Living with factory daily, I know that things can be fixed, apache2 has not a native systemd service file, and the init.d script works now perfectly with systemd. So bug report, specific to each init script that doesn't work would help to get the best of systemd come in. And yeap worksforme ... with or without systemd-sysinitv installed. Next time, spend a bit more time testing when we hit the M2/3 stage.. Really! ;-) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c25 --- Comment #25 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-11-14 12:42:11 CET --- It is bad, no very bad habit to force such a change with an upgrade. That's what this report is all about. It's all about the upgrade situation and not about new/ fresh installs. Either you start the upgrade via booting from DVD/ CD or doing it with zypper nobody warns you what's happening to sysvinit. The majority of our users will either miss the additional grub option or do not know how to handle additional kernel options. I still hope the majority will not be hit by this issue. That you didn't had any with four systems is good. But from following the different lists we know there are more people annoyed by this change. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c26 --- Comment #26 from Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> 2011-11-25 13:59:10 CET --- http://oss.sgi.com/pipermail/pcp/2011-November/002008.html is partial about how non openSUSE Open Source developers see the move to systemd. In this case it was a fresh install and no upgrade. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c27 Bart Van Assche <bart.vanassche@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |bart.vanassche@gmail.com --- Comment #27 from Bart Van Assche <bart.vanassche@gmail.com> 2011-12-22 10:54:36 UTC --- (In reply to comment #4)
if systemd breaks something, file a bug report. But "Systemd should only be enabled with fresh installs" is INVALID.
Upgrading from openSUSE 11.4 to openSUSE 12.1 breaks all existing LSB-compliant System V style init scripts. An example of the consequences of upgrading to 12.1: # /etc/init.d/some-third-party-open-source-sysv-style-init-script start redirecting to systemctl but the service is not started. This breakage is caused by the changes in the aaa_base package (/etc/rc.status) for automatic redirection to systemd (and which can be disabled by setting the variable SYSTEMD_NO_WRAP). Is that information sufficient to reopen this bug or should I file this information in a new bug report ? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c28 Christian Boltz <suse-beta@cboltz.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |suse-beta@cboltz.de --- Comment #28 from Christian Boltz <suse-beta@cboltz.de> 2011-12-22 14:27:07 CET --- Please open a new bugreport (and add a short note with the bug number here). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c29 --- Comment #29 from Bart Van Assche <bart.vanassche@gmail.com> 2011-12-22 13:42:32 UTC --- Done - see also https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=738281. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c30 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |REOPENED Component|Update Problems |Update Problems Resolution|WORKSFORME | AssignedTo|freitag@suse.com |bnc-team-screening@forge.pr | |ovo.novell.com Product|openSUSE 12.1 |openSUSE 12.2 --- Comment #30 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2012-11-14 09:57:25 UTC --- This bug is still present in 12.2. After zypper dup I've got systemd instead of sysvinit. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c Jiaying ren <jren@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jren@suse.com AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |ma@suse.com |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c32 Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #32 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> 2012-11-20 10:23:20 CET --- Which is perfectly fine as systemd is the default init of 12.2, so doing a "distribution upgrade" you get the new distribution. If you don't want new defaults for zypper dup, it's your duty to lock the old or new packages - otherwise it's (again) perfectly fine for zypper dup to update to new defaults. *Otherwise* it would be a bug in zypper dup. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c33 --- Comment #33 from Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> 2012-11-20 09:32:43 UTC --- I'm not sure this is completely true. I seem to remember "zypper dup" from 12.1 to (pre-release) 12.2 keeping grub as bootloader while new installs of 12.2 had grub2 as default. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c34 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #34 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2012-11-20 09:50:48 UTC --- Changing a default does not mean that you can change user's setup if he explicitly configured it. We are not talking about a fresh install but a system upgrade which should not break the system. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c35 Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX AssignedTo|coolo@suse.com |sweet_f_a@gmx.de --- Comment #35 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.com> 2012-11-20 11:11:57 CET --- it's not breaking the system, it's updating to the new default. But if you want the bug, go ahead. I closed them as WONTFIX, if you reopen it's yours. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c36 Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #36 from Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> 2012-11-20 10:47:10 UTC --- Nice attitude. This bug was one of the "most annoying bugs" in 12.1. Still not fixed in 12.2 and WONTFIX ever? Your argumentation why it's ok and wanted to switch to systemd again and again is absolutely non-sense. Would you also say it's fine to switch from exim to postfix again and again just because postfix is the default MTA since 10 years? Regardless the user has a working exim config but not a postfix one? Why providing exim packages at all? You know that's stupid to assign this bug to me ... Jump over your own shadow and reopen it by yourself, assign it to somebody who could know why sysvinit will be removed rather than simply upgrading it to the new package name sysvinit-init. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c37 --- Comment #37 from Christian Boltz <suse-beta@cboltz.de> 2012-11-20 20:29:57 CET --- (In reply to comment #36)
Nice attitude. This bug was one of the "most annoying bugs" in 12.1. Still not fixed in 12.2 and WONTFIX ever?
You probably have seen in the 12.2 release notes that sysvinit is deprecated. In 12.3, systemd might be the only available init system (in other words: sysvinit might get removed - see the discussions on the opensuse-factory mailinglist) I agree that this bug was valid for 12.1 and maybe also for 12.2, but for future versions it will most probably be a WONTFIX.
Your argumentation why it's ok and wanted to switch to systemd again and again is absolutely non-sense.
Assuming the current factory development continues as planned, 12.3 will not contain sysvinit, so the only sane/possible option is to switch to systemd.
Would you also say it's fine to switch from exim to postfix again and again just because postfix is the default MTA since 10 years? Regardless the user has a working exim config but not a postfix one? Why providing exim packages at all?
You are comparing apples with bananas ;-) There's a big difference - the exim packages still exist and are maintained. sysvinit is not AFAIK - at least I didn't see anyone stepping up to maintain it in the future. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c38 --- Comment #38 from Michal Kubeček <mkubecek@suse.com> 2012-11-20 20:31:00 UTC --- (In reply to comment #37)
You are comparing apples with bananas ;-) There's a big difference - the exim packages still exist and are maintained. sysvinit is not AFAIK - at least I didn't see anyone stepping up to maintain it in the future.
I was considering it and I still am because for me, systemd is the worst thing I have seen in ten years with SuSE distributions, comparable perhaps only with zmd. But seeing both systemd upstream and its proponents in OpenSuSE openly planning to make such task as difficult as possible e.g. by intentionally modifying nonrelated packages in a way that makes them unusable without systemd, really doesn't help. I understand that it is their intention to avoid fair contest with other alternatives; What I don't understand is why the people in charge favor such hostile project. But this is for a discussion somewhere else - if there actually _was_ a discussion, that is; sadly it seems to have been decided long ago without asking anyone. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c Ruediger Meier <sweet_f_a@gmx.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|sweet_f_a@gmx.de |bnc-team-screening@forge.pr | |ovo.novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c Jiaying ren <jren@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |NEW AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |fcrozat@suse.com |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c39 Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jra@baylink.com --- Comment #39 from Jay Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> 2013-01-06 16:20:02 UTC --- (In reply to comment #37)
(In reply to comment #36)
Would you also say it's fine to switch from exim to postfix again and again just because postfix is the default MTA since 10 years? Regardless the user has a working exim config but not a postfix one? Why providing exim packages at all?
You are comparing apples with bananas ;-)
Yup he is: if you replace exim with postfix, mail stops working. If you replace sysvinit with systemd *my entire system*, the thing I get paid to maintain and develop, may stop working. Could we, maybe, get some professional system administrators on the release configuration team? I'll tell you people the same thing I tell programming language maintainers: Your baby? It's *a tool I use to get work done*. You rake me over the coals with it, and I'll find tool providers who don't. It's bad enough we're dumping a perfectly serviceable 20 year old tool in favor of something better; doing it on an upgrade without any documentation is absolutely unacceptable, professionally. And as for "no one's stepping up to maintain it", well, that's just cause it's not *officially* dropped yet. KDE3 is 3 orders of magnitude more complex, and that only took a year or so to come back to life after the abortion that is KDE4. Sometimes, y'know, better *really is* the enemy of good enough. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c40 Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #40 from Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@suse.com> 2013-01-07 14:41:35 UTC --- This won't change for 12.2 (and I'm clearly not the one who could do such a change) and 12.3 will not have sysvinit supported anyway. closing as WONTFIX feel free to reassign to libzypp maintainer otherwise. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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