https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 aj@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|zlm-code10- |aj@novell.com |bugs@forge.provo.novell.com | Component|Zenworks |Patterns QAContact|jtariq@novell.com |aj@novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #2 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-10-27 23:47 MST ------- It's unfortunately not as easy as removing zmd from the patterns, sorry. If a user does a default KDE installation and we assume that this would be without zmd, and then installs GNOME later to try it out, then this user will get a nice zen-updater tray icon in GNOME that is totally non-functional because zmd will not have any installation sources. Of course he will blame Novell/SUSE for not getting any security fixes. This uncovers how embarassingly broken the whole package management stack is by design. It needs to be fixed some day, either by a finding a non-absurd way to share the installation sources information between zypp and zmd, or by removing zmd from the distribution and not just from the KDE pattern. Besides that, selling zmd as a nice gift for openSUSE was a hard job - doing the exact opposite now won't be easier. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #4 from martin.schlander@gmail.com 2006-10-28 00:56 MST ------- #2 You think the well being of a few imaginary users installing KDE, and later for some reason installing GNOME, is more important than making the distro the best it can be for all the KDE users out of the box? Fixing the packagemanagement stack is starting to look fairly easy. Simply rewrite zen-updater to use libzypp, or perhaps a completely new applet is needed. Of course this can't be done for 10.2 - but that's a bad argument for KDE users needing to suffer for the next 8 months too. Of course we can manually delete zmd and rug - but we need the distro to be as good as possible by default with the need for as little tweaking as possible. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #6 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-10-28 01:41 MST ------- (In reply to comment #4)

#2 You think the well being of a few imaginary users installing KDE, and later for some reason installing GNOME, is more important than making the distro the best it can be for all the KDE users out of the box?

No, I just think that half-half is a dirty thing and certainly there will be users who manage finding themselves in a situation where they try to use a zmd that does not have any sources, and of course they will report it in the "Security" component as "Critical". The current implementation assumes zmd to be installed and running on all systems. This does not mean that the current implementation is good. Everybody knows that it is not. By all means, yes, this use case is not what most people do. (I wouldn't call it imaginary, however). But getting "rug: command not found" in a default KDE installation in 10.2 after the painful introduction in 10.1 is something that will cost quite some support resources (people _are_ using it, it's not true that everyone uninstalls it). It means more forking of documentation and support (in the sense "if you're using 10.1, do X, if you're using 10.2, to Y, but not with GNOME because then it's still X even in 10.2). Costly, maybe doable anyway. Actually I don't have a finalized opinion on this. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #8 from marcio.ferreira@gmail.com 2006-10-28 08:12 MST ------- First of all, its that easy to remove zmd from the kde pattern. Yes, it completely is. You are thinking about the 0.00000057% of the users that will install kde and then want to install gnome? What about the other 99.99999%? Give me a break. Not that it wouldnt be very simple to add zmd to the gnome pattern, right? So this point seems to me simply a "lets find a reason not to do it, no matter how lame it will sound". The second point: zypper wont sync with zmd. For all that I see in why this program exist its the greter objective of it to NOT sync with zmd. There is completely no point in having it if it should sync with zmd. My solution to this "problem": create a hack to force zmd get the data from zypp. SUSE people msut be expert in some of those hacks, really shouldnt be a problem, I think. Add to cron a way to sync it or check, dunno. Not kde users problem. Acceptance of zmd: only people that has completely no understanding about what zmd does can find it is good or even have a neutral position about it. Adding it was a shame political decision. Period. One exception would be that they would like the command line interface of rug, but they will want the command line interface, and not zmd. Since for years, lots of suse users were begging for a command line interface and SUSE never answered to that. And if somebody points that it brings a cli interface, I will have to say that then it should have been added a command line interface to YaST PM, and not all this circus called zmd (y2pmsh, anyone?). And the alst point: there is a qt updater to work with yast, the opensuse updater. This solves the last point of removing zmd (the first is the command line interface, taht is zypper). So why not add the opensuse updater to gnome default too? Im pretty sure users couldnt care less if they will use a qt or a gtk applet in the tray? I asked that because I kinda already know the answer, but I want to hear somebody from SUSE saying it. I thnk Im goin to read that its not possible to have a qt applet in gnome, that would be bad and bla bla bla... But the points is that kde users were forced to swallow the gtk zen updater in 10.1. It would be really (yet another) lame excuse to say its not possible to do it. Saying "oh, the horror, a qt updater in gnome" is valid but saying "oh, a gtk zen applet in kde" was not a issue. What I think is that the so called rules for release times, stability concerns, etc sometimes are valid and sometimes are not valid in opensuse world. To add zmd, they were not valid, screw the rules. To add the kde back in business with zypper and the updater applet, its like "oh, it needs a lot of testing", "it may not be ready" or "this can harm gnome". But for creating this mess the rules were clearly ignored. So I ask myself: what are the rules of the game? Anybody from SUSE Labs can answer this? Andreas? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #10 from danielstefanmader@web.de 2006-10-28 09:38 MST ------- Hello, I very much agree that this is an interesting topic. But I strongly recommend to go much further: if there is one thing in a Linux distribution that _really_ counts, then it is the package management system. I can have KDE in many distributions along with modern and user-friendly hotplugging systems and intuitive networking tools so that this is not what will keep users to keep up with this crazy system squeezed into the latest SUSE. I am a heavy user of SUSE and I like this distro more than any other mainly because of YaST (which comes in handy even for me as a somewhat more-than-average user every now and then). But since apt4rpm was out for SUSE -- and btw. never officially supported or recommended -- I have never again used the YAST package management module. Later, with 10.1, I switched to smart and thus have completely ignored all that zmd mess... Whenever I talk to other Linux users it is *almost always* the lack of an officially supported powerful, flexible and user-friendly package management and updating mechanism in SUSE that makes power users stick to Debian-style distros, Fedora and the others. My question is: why not become sensible at last and support something like smart out of the box and with a reasonable channel list provided right away? It has a GUI available (and even a tray applet!) and I cannot imagine that it is impossible to make the YAST frontend use smart in background, too. Honestly, it really sucks to have several package managers in parallel and to quickly have the feeling to have left the path of stability once the first smart upgrade with external repositories (and be it only the multimedia and KDE channels) was done. OpenSUSE should be a community distro and the one essential thing that a community distro usually features seems to be completely ignored here (yes: it's a working, powerful and central package manager). I have always disliked those "external YaST repositories" since there was no CLI for this (and since the concept simply is a PITA) and I am totally baffled to hear that SUSE Linux is still ages away from what e.g. Debian has ever since it was released in the first place. This is not good at all but a real and enormous threat to the future of SUSE Linux. I would assume that the SUSE labs should make this topic *a priority* and not wait until anybody complains. There might no one be left to complain. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #12 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-10-28 10:40 MST ------- Let's avoid getting off-topic. I think it's pretty clear that whatever is offered as the default to users, must be based on the libzypp resolver. This resolver has been developed for a reason, not just to have something special. It's the only one that always "gets it right" on biarch and that supports patches, patterns and products. As much as I like smart - I'm happily using it myself, just yesterday it successfully updated > 1000 packages in a row on my system - it disqualifies itself as default by the way it likes to destroy x86_64 systems. Check the mailing list archives, we had users that ended up with an i586 build of rpm installed on x86_64 by smart, breaking _every_ package manager for further repair actions. This is impossible to support as the default. zypp cannot be put into question, the question is really whether to prefer using it through zmd or whether to use it directly, and when to do the change. There are just 4 weeks left for testing, it's not that the buglists about the already existing tools were empty. There are still bugs that affect the first installation, which are per definitionem only fixable _before_ the release (users can't forgive you if already the installation fails), and unfortunately the teams for these problems and for the opensuse-updater are the same. If I had to decide, I'd really prefer a slow and clumsy zen-updater that can be removed and replaced manually compared to not being able to use openSUSE at all because the installer likes to segfault or abort the installation because of callback problems. Not even the nicest KDE updater applet helps you if you can't finish the installation. zmd has one major advantage: It has been in use for 5 months on real-world 10.1 installations and proven itself to be "basically working". Don't tell me you know that the other tools are "basically working" in this sense, you simply cannot know it because there is still no testing repository for factory that exposes the highly problematic points of the package management stack: - patches - messages - scripts - restarting itself when the package-manager flag is set -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #14 from judas_iscariote@shorewall.net 2006-10-28 16:46 MST ------- (In reply to comment #9)

This is becoming an interesting thread. ;-)

Indeed ;)

zypper and opensuse-updater are quite new, I don't want to force an untested and unstable application to us by default.

Yes, zypper requires some work , but with some effort, it will become the most viable alternative to use for daily work.

please test the complete package management and tell us what works and what needs fixing

again, the problem is zmd that is very slow and the syncronization between yast is awful, users are reporting ridiculous (1 hour or more) parsing and syncronization times with modest hardware but fast connections. looks especially bad at the fact _no_ openSUSE user _needs_ ZenWorks , they only want yast to work, fast as possible. ( as like the good old times). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #15 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-10-30 19:39 MST ------- (In reply to comment #8)

First of all, its that easy to remove zmd from the kde pattern. Yes, it completely is.

Marcio, I'm really sorry, but no, it is not as easy as that, and you just don't know it better. Follow the development closer and read the buglist. Yes, the complete one, with all 764 currently known bugs. As soon as you're running into bug 212048, you will maybe notice how critical it is without a running zmd. YaST is known to lose its installation sources and there will be no zmd to add them back if it's not installed and running by default. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #17 from andreas.hanke@gmx-topmail.de 2006-10-30 20:51 MST ------- (In reply to comment #16)

It is not critical. You dont absolutely need zmd to "save" your computer. It will not be in unusable state if you hit that bug

This dispute is pointless. I believe that releasing version n+1 of a distribution again with fundamental changes in the default offered update tools after version n already had fundamental changes won't work, I believe that again throwing working tools away in favor of basically untested ones at the beginning of Beta won't work, I believe that people hate zmd because it has been shipped unfinished and I believe that people will hate any other tools, too, if they are shipped unfinished, and I believe that something like "bugs don't matter, just work around them" won't work because it did already fail with 10.1 (10.1 and its zmd _are_ usable as well if you're willing to work around the bugs). Things like "99.99997895% of the users agree with my point" or "only 0.0067% are negatively affected" are not a productive way to discuss things (yeah, 99.99997895% want to compile everything with -ffast-math...), of course you'll get a ****load of bug reports if zypp likes to forget people's security update repos, but you're not one of the 0.0067% people who actually have to handle/fix/deal with them... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #19 from benji.weber@gmail.com 2006-10-30 21:26 MST ------- Andreas, No-one wants a repeat of 10.1 through lack of testing (your fear), But equally no-one wants a repeat of 10.1 through being so afraid of change all the problems of 10.1 are allowed to remain. 10.1 remastered shows what your scenario with ZMD remaining gives, it is better but the underlying issues remain. 10.2 needs to be done right. You seem to be under the impression that a new untested architecture is being proposed here, that is not so. Instead the suggested course of action is the removal of part of the existing architecture that has proven to cause problems. ZMD does not provide extra protection against bugs in zypp. The YaST <-> ZMD synchronisation was and always will be a hack. You are claiming that the ZMD based tools are more tested than YaST/YOU based directly on top of libzypp. In fact they have both been used for as long, and the zmd based tools are not even capable of updating vanilla 10.1, so in fact yast package management has been tested more. The only new things in question are the opensuseupdater and zypper. when using the libzypp backend directly opensuseupdater does little more than notify of updates and launch YOU. Zypper is somewhat more experimental but also less of a concern. The primary concern is that the tools that inexperienced users will see. If ZMD were dropped KDE users would be relying on YOU for updates, and a new tray notifier to let them know there are updates available (as all other versions). So what is the worst that could happen from using the "untested" opensuseupdater (as this is what seems to concern you). Worst case: users don't get notified of updates, they will still be able to get them provided YOU is working. If ZMD is not dropped then we still have the hacky architecture that has proven to cause problems for the past 8 months or so. Every change to either zypp or ZMD potentially introduces new edge cases which cause bugs that stop any of the update system from working. Testing is not a solution to a broken architecture. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #21 from judas_iscariote@shorewall.net 2006-10-30 22:15 MST ------- Can I agree with both of you ? :-) in short: 1 the problem is **ZMD itself** , I guess this is only fixable removing zmd all together. I don't see other solution .. this is broken by design.... :-( 2. zypp has it s own problems. but it is useful and is improving.. nothing agai nst it. 3. If we like and time permits, we can put efforts on testing both zypper and Opensuseupdater , I guess the comunity can help.-.what Im not sure if developers time will permit to fix the whole bunch of problems that a hard test can reveal. 4. Yes , might not be a good idea to make such radical changes in beta stage, but we claim for real solution for this problems, even if that means a longer beta process. 5. Maybe disabling the "Syncronize with ZenWorks" button on Yast by default and not staring the zmd daeamon by default is a good **start** for the next beta, or <crazy idea> syncronize it via cron </crazy idea> ,or start the sync only when the user actually wants to use rug , rewrite zen-updater to use libzypp ,or whatever (dunno), but don't make both yast and Zenworks interact with the user at the same time...** get ZMD out of the story** that's when the problem starts to be seen by the user.... yes, certainly Im missing something else, and probably is not that easy, both technically and specially politically ;-) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 marcio.ferreira@gmail.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- BugsThisDependsOn| |212048 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #24 from judas_iscariote@shorewall.net 2006-11-01 18:11 MST ------- (In reply to comment #23)

I can't believe that we are, less than 4 weeks before the final freeze, again discussing how to break another distribution directly before the release and how to make it basically unsupportable. It's unbelievable and the ignorance of the impact of such a change is shocking.

Andreas, The community does not care if the release gets delayed a month or more, what is needed is this to be fixed. **NOW** and fixed means, 1. No Zenworks by default. or at least no zmd running at all. 2. Yast not syncing with zenworks or doing so in a stage when it is not intereacting with the user. 3. Sure, it is an important change, the addtion of the broken zenworks stuff was done regarless the complains in a beta stage.. what ss wrong about delying th release a bit and finnally fix this mess ? this is really, really affecting the userbase,, and probably novell will notice the real effect this is causing when 10.2 boxed sets sales decline. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #25 from mvidner@novell.com 2006-11-02 07:28 MST ------- About a possible delay... 10.2 itself is not the only factor affecting its own release. We have other work scheduled for the enterprise products so the schedule is not as flexible as you might think. Bug 212048 is fixed for Beta2 (by asking the user before removing the sources). ZENworks eating resources in the background: I proposed to mitigate this by running the helpers niced (bug 192876) but it has been rejected. comment 12:

Don't tell me you know that the other tools are "basically working" in this sense, you simply cannot know it because there is still no testing repository for factory

This reminds me that I should build zypper for 10.1 so that it gets tested on many patches.

that exposes the highly problematic points of the package management stack:

- patches - messages - scripts - restarting itself when the package-manager flag is set

Yes, for example zypper does not handle messages yet and I am not sure about scripts. It will apply only the package-manager marked patches if present but then you have to start it again (I think a wrapper script is needed so that the binary can be reloaded). I will create bug reports for these issues. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #27 from marcio.ferreira@gmail.com 2006-11-02 19:44 MST ------- Quick flame (jump this paragraphg if you want). Novell/SUSE/SUSE Labx/ex-SUSE Labs/whatever people (ok, Andreas, not SUSE Labs, as Ive said before, or as Ive seen ted haeger refering to nbg people, or as Ive seen in some greg kreoah presentation) should have the balls to fix this, but Im not sure they will, its all about politics, gnome desktop and enterprise bla bla bla. And distro quality dropping, and opensuse becoming fedora. (In reply to comment #23)

Not to mention that the Automatic Online Update Setup in YaST writes a cron rule which calls rug, and that KDE users who try to set up their systems for automatic updates would not get any security patches because the tool to install them is not even installed at all. And installing it later doesn't help because it's then still unable to install any patches because it has no services.

You are very creative to find ways for not dropping zmd, but Im not so sure if you put that effort generally. Lets see, install the update source via a preinstall script in rug rpm? Makje it add a generic redirector (like software.opensuse.org)? Sure looks like an ugly hack, sure looks like somethintg that will fail a lot. Sure thing its in the average quality of other hacks that are already in the system, including the most official one, called ZMD

I can't believe that we are, less than 4 weeks before the final freeze, again discussing how to break another distribution directly before the release and how to make it basically unsupportable.

Repeating: Ive seen it happenning before, just one release ago.

It's unbelievable and the ignorance of the impact of such a change is shocking. It is still definitely not as easy as removing zmd from a pattern and the impact is still more severe than not >having

I disagree... Ive been running here without zmd for months. All good, all fine. No need for rescue etc etc. And you are preseting scenarios that will solve 0.01% of the users. What about the other 99%? Ive used to think somewhere close to you, but that was before 10.1, when I thought quality for a release of SUSE was absolutely necessary. But now its just a common trade off. No biggie if its released a little bit broken (or a lot bit broken, like 10.1). Therefore, I have no moral problems and I will sleep at night if 10.2 is released very slightly broken (much much less than 10.1).

In order to have a distribution that is supportable without zmd installed by default, _nothing_ in the distribution must assume zmd to be present and everything that does must be changed. Slightly difficult in a feature-frozen distribution, I'd say.

if there´s a will, there´s a way

Guys, you can't change the Automatic Online Setup now to write a zypper cron job because that way you're forcing a basically untested tool upon all users,

Exactly what they did to include zmd in 10.1

and the other way round, you can't release a distribution

right

that writes a cron rule with a tool that is not even installed by default because that's broken.

We have a broken tool installed by default (its not only yast sources that dont get well synced to zmd, the other way zmd->yast is also true, but hey, not your problem, right?). Its called zmd. But the worst part of that is not this fact. The worse part is that we have a system to support something that is not goin to happen, which is connecting to a Zen server.

It is damn late for this change!

if there´s a will, there´s a way

Let's make Zenworks easily unselectable, easily deinstallable, declare this unsupported for now because it is not supportable and then try to work towards a 10.3 distribution that does not only leave zmd out of the default installation, but actually _works_ without it.

Will you support that path? Towards removing zmd? To resume in one phrase all this thing: any change here wont get this shit worse than it already is. Thats the "shocking truth". -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #31 from volker3204@paradise.net.nz 2006-11-11 20:40 MST ------- What I would like to know is why the situation arises (again) that it's beta phase, and no satisfactory package management is in sight. That the package management is unusable was known before 10.1 went final - next round, same story?!?? That zmd is a problem, not a solution, to most people but large enterprise has been obvious for a long time. Why is there still a dependency on this? That the community acceptance of zmd, by and large, is NULL is wrong. The acceptance is NEGATIVE. Nobody would complain if it was an add-on for enterprise users... Yast losing installation sources is very annoying and not that infrequent. Don't start yast when your broadband is down. Don't start yast when ftp://localhost/ isn't running (needed to get updates to work with delta rpms, because mirroring deltas *and* full packages is daft). This is a bug fix though, not a feature change. I see a non-zmd/rug package management for 10.2 final as critical. People are moving to Ubuntu in droves already, and I know some SUSE users are holding out to give SUSE one more chance with 10.2. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #33 from danielstefanmader@web.de 2006-11-12 07:38 MST ------- First of all, I fully agree with comment #31. I think it is absolutely necessary to make ZEN fully optional already in 10.2 and have a lightweight PM instead (offering both CLI and GUI, being reasonably fast and extensible with external repos if the users so wishes). The current situation with a downright broken or at best messy and ugly heart of the distro (= the PM) is unacceptable. In addition to comment #32: I just finished to install Beta2 via network and I expicitly selected the pattern to use libzypp directly, without ZEN in between -- only to learn that after the login to KDE there's now both the ZEN-updater and the opensuse-updater. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #35 from danielstefanmader@web.de 2006-11-12 08:14 MST ------- When I tried with Beta1 and uninstalled libzypp-zmd-backend YAST still tried to sync and produced and error... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #37 from mvidner@novell.com 2006-11-12 13:44 MST ------- (In reply to comment #31)

Yast losing installation sources is very annoying and not that infrequent. Don't start yast when your broadband is down.

I repeat, that is bug 212048, fixed.

Don't start yast when ftp://localhost/ isn't running (needed to get updates to work with delta rpms, because mirroring deltas *and* full packages is daft).

I don't understand. What is the bug number for that? (In reply to comment #35)

When I tried with Beta1 and uninstalled libzypp-zmd-backend YAST still tried to sync and produced and error.

Bug 214588, fixed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #39 from visnov@novell.com 2006-11-13 03:21 MST ------- Everyone, please, keep the focus of this bug - discuss the default of the Zenworks enablement pattern. The functionality that the system should work nicely without ZMD-related installed should work and in cases where it does not, please report _separate_ bugs. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #41 from marcio.ferreira@gmail.com 2007-02-15 11:17 MST ------- So, we have just got alpha1 release and I must confess I ahvent tested, nor I think I will have time to, maybe some next development releases. Still, since this topic was pushed to 10.3 release, here I am to rise it from its graves. In last project meeting aj said zmd would be out of the default installation. Im quoting him here: "17:06 < AJaeger> aka_druid_: Removing zmd from default: YEs." I believe it hasnt already been removed, adrian said in the yast meeting yesterday that it was maybe too early in the development cycle to remove it. Last time it was too late to remove, now its too early? Whats goin on in this topic? Am I missing something? Isnt it just a matter to edit a pat file and have it out of the default selection, so no opensuse user will ever see that program, unless he explicitely and by all his own desire wants to? Whats the problem? Do we have a problem? A technicality? A political decision? Can anybody give us some update on this. Thanks a lot. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 ------- Comment #42 from tolga.balci@isbank.net.tr 2007-02-19 07:18 MST ------- (In reply to comment #18)

We have had what? 7.3, 8.0, 8.2, 9.0, 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 10.0 working without zmd. And 10.1 with zmd, that is worse than every previous suse release. What can I say...

I completely agree: I am using SuSE since 7.1 release, and now have 10.2 installed. As Marcio said, I had no problems before 10.0. The package management 10.1 kept ages to initialize. Now with 10.2 it works ok. I wonder: we have rug, zmd, yast, smart, apt4rpm... whatever they are, but can't the developers focus on making yast better instead of diverting to many package managing software? Don't get me wrong: I can't code a single line, but as from the perspective of a user, I am confused. Maybe a better yast and an additional apt4rpm would give us all we need. Regards -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215649 aj@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED ------- Comment #44 from aj@novell.com 2007-02-28 03:31 MST ------- Done for Alpha1plus. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.