http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c2 --- Comment #2 from Ciaran Farrell <cfarrell@novell.com> 2010-02-08 19:34:20 UTC --- (In reply to comment #0)

re-alpine's maintainer sees problems with integrating Ed Chappa's patches[1][2]. I could not verify and come to a resolution. Since openSUSE already does ship Ed's patches with alpine, we seem to be doing fine, aren't we?

Not necessarily. If those patches don't have licenses, they should not be in openSUSE. I can imagine how they slipped through, but if there really is no indication of what license they are under, then I advise that the patches not be applied. The patches should also be removed from our tarball (if we don't know the distribution terms). -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c4 --- Comment #4 from Ciaran Farrell <cfarrell@novell.com> 2010-02-09 09:57:59 UTC --- (In reply to comment #3)

Sounds to me as if, implicitly, a "WTFPL plus exception (don't claim ownership)" was chosen.

Possibly, but without confirmation, it isn't acceptable. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c6 --- Comment #6 from Eduardo Chappa <chappa@washington.edu> 2010-02-09 18:05:42 UTC --- (In reply to comment #5)

His patches are here http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/

I cannot see any license indication on his website or patches.

Thank you for adding me to this conversation. There is no license for the patches, nor there will be one. However, SuSe can distribute the patches if they desire to. My only request is that no license be implicitly assumed or explicitly said about them. On the other hand, talking about the alpine to re-alpine switch. The current version of Re-Alpine is one of the development versions of Alpine. There has not been a real difference made between Alpine and Re-Alpine. In my view, Re-Alpine and Alpine are both dead projects. I wish to be proven wrong, though. -- Eduardo -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c8 --- Comment #8 from Eduardo Chappa <chappa@washington.edu> 2010-02-09 18:35:33 UTC --- (In reply to comment #7)

Re-Alpine would probably be going forward if there was not this license-or-not blocker going around in circles. We may be allowed to distribute the patches, but what about rediffing to resolve conflicts, and ultimately, integration?

Since I am not a lawyer, i fail to see the problem here. If your patches cause conflict with mine, or if mine are causing conflicts among themselves, you are free to write a patch to fix those conflicts, and if you need my help I am happy to help you. I have lots of experience doing that. I patch so frequently, that I "automated" this process, and in particular I have a patch to remove conflicts between patches. If you have that problem, that idea might help you.

Because even if people were allowed to redistribute, what license would the binaries containing said patch be under?

If you need a name for a license, I do not have it. I am not an expert in these things. I apologize if this causes you any trouble. -- Eduardo -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c10 Juergen Weigert <jw@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |chappa@washington.edu --- Comment #10 from Juergen Weigert <jw@novell.com> 2010-02-09 19:04:47 UTC --- Thanks Eduardo, for granting distribution permission and modification permission. That is basically what we need. Modifications shall be restricted to not removing your name, and not adding false names, so that nobody can claim false authorship. Ontop of that, we would also need your approval for our downstream partners, (e.g. IBM and others), they need the same permission to distribute and modify. I suppose, that is okay with you too. Right? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c12 --- Comment #12 from Juergen Weigert <jw@novell.com> 2010-02-09 19:34:30 UTC --- Thanks again, Eduardo. I'd be happy to see your patches in our products. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c14 --- Comment #14 from Eduardo Chappa <chappa@washington.edu> 2010-07-19 17:45:03 UTC --- (In reply to comment #13)

Eduardo, would you also be willing to give the same permissions for the upstream direction?

I am sorry to ask the obvious, but at this time, this is not obvious anymore. Who is upstream? -- Eduardo -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c16 --- Comment #16 from Eduardo Chappa <chappa@washington.edu> 2010-07-19 20:33:53 UTC --- (In reply to comment #15)

A legitimate question. (As seen from Novell,) by upstream I would refer to the program source provider, that is, the alpine source or a community spinoff thereof (such as, but not limited to, re-alpine).

From all of this, I see three separate projects. Alpine (as still maintained by

I consider Re-Alpine a project different from Alpine. Re-Alpine, until a few days ago was a dead project (there was no action). Recently there has been some upgrades :). A release was announced at the end of last year, which was postponed, apparently until August this year. I have no idea what it will contain (and I follow Re-Alpine very closely!) The point I am trying to make is the following. My patches are for Alpine, not for Re-Alpine. Re-Alpine is a svn version of Alpine (version 1266, unreleased as Alpine). My patches will always be for Alpine, not for Re-Alpine. I do not use Re-alpine, nor plan to switch, or write/adapt my patches in the future for Re-Alpine. When I tried to help the Re-Alpine project I was sent away, since I explicitly said that I could not work with the changes they were making to the build system. Unfortunately they did not listen, so I left the project, since there was no point in staying (I could not help anyway - which is the reason I say "I was sent away"). I discussed with Andraz Levstik about the possibility to include my patches in Re-Alpine a long time ago, and I asked him not to include them (exactly due to licensing issues). He agreed. the University of Washington), which has very few updates, Re-Alpine, which is a mirror of the Alpine svn, and finally my patches for *ALPINE*. The common denominator of these projects is the public svn. I update my patches based on the contents of the svn, but not based on the content of the re-alpine git. I'd rather leave the source code of Alpine "as is", and differentiate it explicitly from my project. I am also sure that the University of Washington prefers that too. I do not expect any of this to change in the future either, so I suspect my patches will never make it to the source code of Alpine, and will be left as such. Given the situation today, I prefer if it stays like that. -- Eduardo -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c18 --- Comment #18 from Eduardo Chappa <chappa@washington.edu> 2010-07-20 15:17:58 UTC --- Jan, If what you are looking for is a replacement for Alpine, at this moment I think Re-Alpine is your only alternative. What Re-Alpine lacks is direction (I really have no idea where they want to go - there are no future plans that anyone is actively working on). Re-Alpine has some branches, some of them seem as they have been finished, but there are others that are competing among each other, some code that is clearly a hack, etc. I would say that Re-Alpine is really in a "Version 0.1 stage". It is just beginning, and their developers have to learn the code. It is clear that none of them have the expertise that is required to lead this project to its next step, so that we will have a non rusting Re-Alpine for the coming years. I do not know the state of the code in Alpine. I think they are concentrating in developing the web version, since the University of Washington is going to use it officially. The old version WebPine is being retired, and WebAlpine will take its place. At this moment it does not make sense to start a new project unless that project starts with huge improvements over Re-Alpine. The community might question why that improvement was not added to Re-Alpine. I think it's too early to try to find a replacement for Re-Alpine, since it is still maintained. My hunch is that it is going to take a while for the code in Alpine and in Re-Alpine to differ substantially. I have tried the Alpine svn code and in general it is reasonable. If I were you, I would test that code and release as an update of Alpine. In regards to contributing to Alpine, i do not know if it makes sense, since they have not made a release, nor there are news about when one might come. In my ideal world, I would continue with Alpine since I know that the Alpine Team writes good code, and they know the internals of their program. I hope that Re-Alpine takes off some day (in a real way). I know you are worried about adding features that the community wants. What are those? at this time I can think of maildir, and PGP support. The former exists and is reasonable. The latter does not exist, although many people have tried. Maybe you need to try find someone to help with what is missing to do there, so you can have it too. You can simply decide if you want to add it to Alpine or distribute it as Re-Alpine. Can you think of any other features the community wants? I do not know what the future might bring, but probably people will try to contribute them to Re-Alpine. At this time there is so little difference, that the move from Alpine to Re-Alpine makes no difference. You can patch Alpine if needed. I hope this makes sense. -- Eduardo -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c Reinhard Max <max@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |max@suse.com |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c22 Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Component|Other |Other Version|Factory |13.1 Beta 1 Product|openSUSE 12.2 |openSUSE Factory --- Comment #22 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> 2013-05-22 14:14:52 CEST --- Am I correct in the observation that you are now the Alpine maintainer? (http://www.washington.edu/alpine/ shows an "old" 2.00 version and thus seems defunct). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c24 --- Comment #24 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> 2013-05-22 23:20:03 CEST --- This is looking good. Some wishlist items from my side: * Contemporary compression scheme is xz, which has (and rather quickly so) superseded lzma. * I notice that you merged some of your patches (searchheader, replacebug, streamlock, nlinfobug, filterflagbug) already into the codebase itself. Perhaps you could do the same for the other remaining patches? We currently have Patch600: alpine-2.10-colortext.patch Patch601: alpine-2.10-fancy.patch Patch602: alpine-2.10-ignoresize.patch Patch603: alpine-2.10-insertpat.patch Patch604: alpine-2.10-maildir.patch Patch605: alpine-2.10-WrtAcc.patch Patch606: alpine-2.10-unixnullbug.patch * The "unverified" patch is available for version 2.10 from your page, though quilt reports that it is already applied in the plain 2.10 tarball. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c26 --- Comment #26 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@inai.de> 2013-05-23 10:02:05 CEST ---

my web page provider has a limit on the size of files that can be downloaded from their server.

Would something like sourceforge/etc. appeal to you/the alpine project?

"unverified" patch - check again

Yes indeed: 10:00 ares07:/tmp/Z > wget http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/patches/alpine-2.10/alpine-2.10.clean.tar.l... --2013-05-23 10:00:15-- http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/patches/alpine-2.10/alpine-2.10.clean.tar.l... Resolving patches.freeiz.com (patches.freeiz.com)... 31.170.161.216 Connecting to patches.freeiz.com (patches.freeiz.com)|31.170.161.216|:80... connected. HTTP forespřrsel sendt, mottar topptekster... 200 OK Lengde: 4849936 (4.6M) [application/x-tar] Saving to: `alpine-2.10.clean.tar.lzma' 100%[======================================>] 4,849,936 407K/s in 13s 2013-05-23 10:00:29 (362 KB/s) - `alpine-2.10.clean.tar.lzma' saved [4849936/4849936] 10:00 ares07:/tmp/Z > tar -xf alpine-2.10.clean.tar.lzma 10:00 ares07:/tmp/Z > cd alpine-2.10/ 10:00 ares07:/tmp/Z/alpine-2.10 > wget http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/patches/alpine-2.10/unverified.patch.gz --2013-05-23 10:00:36-- http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/patches/alpine-2.10/unverified.patch.gz Resolving patches.freeiz.com (patches.freeiz.com)... 31.170.161.216 Connecting to patches.freeiz.com (patches.freeiz.com)|31.170.161.216|:80... connected. HTTP forespřrsel sendt, mottar topptekster... 200 OK Lengde: 1514 (1.5K) [application/x-gzip] Saving to: `unverified.patch.gz' 100%[======================================>] 1,514 --.-K/s in 0s 2013-05-23 10:00:36 (257 MB/s) - `unverified.patch.gz' saved [1514/1514] 10:00 ares07:/tmp/Z/alpine-2.10 > gzip -d unverified.patch.gz 10:00 ares07:/tmp/Z/alpine-2.10 > patch -p1 --dry -i unverified.patch checking file alpine/reply.c Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c28 Reinhard Max <max@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #28 from Reinhard Max <max@suse.com> 2013-06-17 03:55:53 CEST --- Thanks a lot, Eduardo, for picking up maintainership of alpine! I appreciate that very much. As this bug was about switching to re-alpine, which as things are standing is unlikely to ever happen, I'll close it now as WONTFIX. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=578019#c30 Reinhard Max <max@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Resolution|WONTFIX |FIXED Summary|alpine: update to re-alpine |alpine: update to a | |maintained variant --- Comment #30 from Reinhard Max <max@suse.com> 2013-06-18 03:13:26 CEST --- Well, maybe that was the intention, but it wasn't the wording of the summary and initial comment. ;) Anyway, I'll adjust the summary and type of resolution. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.