[Bug 753932] New: DST (Europe) - Time correctly changes at midnight, but its reset to previous setting on reboot
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=753932 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=753932#c0 Summary: DST (Europe) - Time correctly changes at midnight, but its reset to previous setting on reboot Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 12.1 Version: Final Platform: x86-64 OS/Version: openSUSE 12.1 Status: NEW Severity: Normal Priority: P5 - None Component: Basesystem AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: jorge.adriano@gmail.com QAContact: qa-bugs@suse.de Found By: --- Blocker: --- User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0 It's always been this way for me in openSUSE. At midnight the time on my clock will correctly fast forward one hour. I finish work, shutdown. When I reboot the next day the clock is back to pre-DST, i.e. one hour late. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Go back to the 24th of March and wait for midnight I guess 2. Shutdown computer 3. Reboot Actual Results: Wrong time Expected Results: Correct time -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #1 from jorge aires
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kk zhang
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--- Comment #2 from jorge aires
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Andreas Jaeger
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Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #4 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #1)
Use UTC in CMOS clock as this is the international standard. Please note that every Linux kernel uses UTC within its system clock. The user space localtime is defined with /etc/localtime system wide or with the TZ variable for one user.
If you really depend on local time in CMOS the initrd has to know about it otherwise the kernel has the wrong clock.
If you're using local time in CMOS *you* have to correct the CMOS clock at DST switch.
Compare with http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Configuring_the_clock
@Andreas: I'm not willingly to support local time in CMOS anymore.
Thank you for your answer. I appreciate your clarifications, and the link you provided, which I did look into briefly. I have to be honest and say that right now I don't have the time to devote to understand all the technicalities involved. This is what I can tell you: - I never touched the BIOS of this laptop nor my previous ones. - I never intentionally changed the settings of my CMOS clock. - The only time I may have provided any input regarding time was during the installation procedure, to indicate my timezone. - In YaST, date and time, "Hardware Clock Set to UTC" was not ticked. So my conclusion can only be that this situation Either, - had nothing to do with any input I provided, and in which case, I shouldn't be having to be fiddling around with it. (I'm guessing this wasn't the case) Or, - was the result of some input I provided during installation, in which case I would claim the interface is misleading, since if this situation is to be expected then the instructions should be made more clear, and a warning should be provided. Of course another possibility is that everything is very clear and I'm always messing up during installation because I don't bother to read whatever information I am provided during the process. Maybe. I don't think that is the case. Could be wrong though. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Dr. Werner Fink
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Andreas Jaeger
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--- Comment #7 from jorge aires
To be short:
The clock of linux kernel has to be in UTC The linux kernel reads its initial clock value from CMOS
If CMOS is not in UTC the kernel has to told about to be able to switch back to real UTC
This is done before the root file system from the first disk is touched otherwise the file system is not in a clean state due wrong time stamps
Last two points are done in the initial ram disk which is also used to check and mount the root file system and start the initial program (systemd/sysvinit)
it might be technical and sounds complicated but this is how it is and if you run into trouble at installation time this has to be fixed in the installation routines
Thanks for your explanation. It's quite clear. Don't get me wrong, I understand that things are the way they are, and there's nothing we can do about that. All I meant is that this complexity should be hidden from users in general, who shouldn't have to face it. If the CMOS clock is UTC by default, and that's what the clock of the linux kernel expects, that's how things should work unless the user goes out of his way to specify some other settings. My guess (and I may be wrong!) is that during installation, at some step, we're asked for what appears to be a timezone, which sets the clock to local time. And, if I am right, and this is what causes all the problems, it really shouldn't be this easy to mess the settings up. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Jiří Suchomel
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--- Comment #9 from Jiří Suchomel
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--- Comment #10 from jorge aires
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--- Comment #11 from jorge aires
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--- Comment #12 from jorge aires
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Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #13 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #14 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #12)
For 12.1 you do not need this but for 12.2+ you do.
You may also provide the outout of the comamnd
zcat /boot/initrd | cpio -i --to-stdout etc/sysconfig/clock
which should show id your initrd is uptodate and in sync with your /etc/sysconfig/clock on the disk.
HWCLOCK="--localtime" 58692 blocks
Beside this the two commands:
md5sum /etc/localtime zcat /boot/initrd | cpio -i --to-stdout etc/localtime | md5sum
should result into the same MD5 check sum. If not your system is broken by default.
Yes, they do, they both result in ccd8194aec8408361f290fd775e8904e -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #15 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #16 from Jiří Suchomel
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--- Comment #17 from jorge aires
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--- Comment #18 from jorge aires
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--- Comment #19 from jorge aires
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--- Comment #20 from Jiří Suchomel
- The only reference I found to UTC is in YaST->Time - Selecting it didn't help, time is still reverted on reboot - I haven't touched my BIOS
Well, here might be the problem. YaST->Time does not set UTC for your. It only says the system, what are you using in BIOS. If you have UTC in BIOS, YaST should have UTC check, if you have local time in BIOS, YaST should know about it (from you). Local time saving might not work if /etc/localtime does not exist yet, so you might need to create it manually (this should be already fixed in some yast2 module). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Andreas Jaeger
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--- Comment #22 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #18)
- The only reference I found to UTC is in YaST->Time - Selecting it didn't help, time is still reverted on reboot - I haven't touched my BIOS
Well, here might be the problem. YaST->Time does not set UTC for your. It only says the system, what are you using in BIOS. If you have UTC in BIOS, YaST should have UTC check, if you have local time in BIOS, YaST should know about it (from you).
Right, I thought this could be the case. However in the BIOS setup I cannot find any reference to UTC nor localtime. There's system date and system time and that's it. Also note I have never touch the BIOS, and I'm guessing the default is UTC.
Local time saving might not work if /etc/localtime does not exist yet, so you might need to create it manually (this should be already fixed in some yast2 module).
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--- Comment #23 from Dr. Werner Fink
Also note I have never touch the BIOS, and I'm guessing the default is UTC.
This guess could be wrong it may default to the local time of the factory or simply is the time burned into the flash CMOS + the time offset upto now. It is up on you to a) set the time in BIOS before booting the system or use b) command `date' to set the system time if not already done and then use the command `hwclock' with option `--utc' (or the third line of /etc/adjtime set to UTC) and the option `--systohc' to write the clock back into the BIOS. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #25 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #22)
Also note I have never touch the BIOS, and I'm guessing the default is UTC.
This guess could be wrong it may default to the local time of the factory or simply is the time burned into the flash CMOS + the time offset upto now. It is up on you to a) set the time in BIOS before booting the system or use b) command `date' to set the system time if not already done and then use the command `hwclock' with option `--utc' (or the third line of /etc/adjtime set to UTC) and the option `--systohc' to write the clock back into the BIOS.
Sorry, was away. * I made sure the system was set to UTC (first in yast, then also use). I used yast->time and I also use kwclock --utc and then confirmed it really was set to UTC with: zcat /boot/initrd | cpio -i --to-stdout etc/sysconfig/clock * I went to the BIOS and corrected the clock to UTC (which coincidently is also my localtime, being in Portugal). Booted and time was correct. THEN I wanted to check if changes to system time were preserved. So I changed the system time as root (+10 minutes). Rebooted. Changes were lost. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #26 from jorge aires
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Andreas Jaeger
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--- Comment #28 from jorge aires
Please remember to remove the NEEDINFO if you want others to look at this.
Hi Andreas, not sure what you mean. It's marked as REOPENED now, not NEEDINFO. In fact I thought you'd change it, as per your last comment... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #29 from Andreas Jaeger
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--- Comment #32 from jorge aires
Jorge, I removed the NEEDINFO - I just wanted to ask you to do it next time yourself. Once you provided the information, tick the box below the comment box.
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jorge aires
This will lead to NEEDINFO for Jorge ;)
OK! (done)
... OK ... let us check the real state of the CMOS clock, please provide the output of the commands
tail -n 1 /etc/adjtime
File doesn't exist.
hwclock --show --debug
hwclock from util-linux 2.20.1 Using /dev interface to clock. Assuming hardware clock is kept in UTC time. Waiting for clock tick... ...got clock tick Time read from Hardware Clock: 2012/10/31 17:47:47 Hw clock time : 2012/10/31 17:47:47 = 1351705667 seconds since 1969 Wed 31 Oct 2012 17:47:47 WET -0.266340 seconds
then the output of the commands to check the initrd
zcat /boot/initrd | \ cpio -i --quiet --to-stdout etc/sysconfig/clock | \ grep HWCLOCK grep HWCLOCK /etc/sysconfig/clock lsinitrd /boot/initrd | grep -E 'clock|adj|localtime' test -e /dev/shm/warpclock || echo no warpclock
HWCLOCK="-u" HWCLOCK="-u" etc/localtime etc/sysconfig/clock bin/warpclock boot/05-clock.sh no warpclock
and final I'd like to test your user space setup, supposes your're using a bash a shell
. /etc/sysconfig/clock echo $TIMEZONE cmp /etc/localtime /usr/share/zoneinfo/$TIMEZONE || echo wrong localtime TZ=UTC date TZ=$TIMEZONE date
Europe/Lisbon Wed Oct 31 17:50:12 UTC 2012 Wed Oct 31 17:50:12 WET 2012 Hope it helps! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #35 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #33)
I do not see a problem from the side of initrd nor CMOS as CMOS as well as the kernels system clock are in UTC ... that is no DST switch here. Only the rules of /etc/localtime aka /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Lisbon accordingly to DST could be broken simply as Europe/Lisbon ... beside DST ... is UTC±0.
On the other hand I don not know if with systemd the system time will be written back to hardware clock is not a nptd daemon is running in eleven minute mode but only a ntpdate was called.
Not sure if this matters, but just to make it clear, I have tried changing the time in multiple ways, not just ntpdate. The setting is always lost on reboot. I just tried (again) setting the clock, this time using the KDE clock interface. Accepted the root password and the time was set. Rebooted. All was lost.
I guess it won't. Also old systemv boot script /etc/init.d/boot.clock was disabled (not by me and also removed in factory now) there is no way to use this together with FORCE_SYSTOHC in /etc/sysconfig/clock.
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--- Comment #36 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #37 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #38 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #35)
Setting the system clock does *not* change the hardware clock. For this you may use the hwclock programm with its option --systohc.
I understand that. I'm saying I change the system date and upon reboot these changes are lost. Is that how it is supposed to work? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #39 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #37)
(In reply to comment #35)
Setting the system clock does *not* change the hardware clock. For this you may use the hwclock programm with its option --systohc.
I understand that. I'm saying I change the system date and upon reboot these changes are lost.
Is that how it is supposed to work?
In other words, upon reboot, system time always coincides with the hwclock. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #40 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #41 from jorge aires
(In reply to comment #38)
Without a running ntpd the system time will not be written back and indeed this is intended.
Well then the question becomes, shouldn't ntpd be running and why isn't it. What I am asking really is, in a properly installed desktop system, should changes to the system time done via KDE's clock settings (or using date, or using ntpdate) be lost after reboot? It really doesn't seem to me like the proper behaviour should require for the user to manually change the hardware clock time, either using hwclock --systohc, or by accessing the BIOS. Yet any change to the system clock, not just small changes of a few minutes but also big changes of a few hours, are not preserved after reboot. The system time after reboot always coincides with the hwclock. And given that, when there are any DST changes, what happens is also precisely that the system time does change to reflect them, and then upon reboot again it coincides with the hwclock, I'm inclined to believe this is a manifestation of the same problem.
Only if a ntpd daemon runs for a longer time then kernel is switched in the so called elven minute mode (compare manual page adjtimex(2)) which then writes the system time back to the hardware clock in real time accuracy. Only if the hardware clock if off by more then 900 seconds (15 minutes) this is not done even in the eleven minutes mode as there are timezone with 30 minutes offset.
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--- Comment #42 from Dr. Werner Fink
Well then the question becomes, shouldn't ntpd be running and why isn't it.
To use ntpd it has to be configured, that is a time server has to added to /etc/ntp.conf which may require a password and a 24/7 network connection. Also the ntpd could be used to access a local DCF clock which has also configured.
What I am asking really is, in a properly installed desktop system, should changes to the system time done via KDE's clock settings (or using date, or using ntpdate) be lost after reboot?
AFAIK the SysVint boot script /etc/init.d/boot.clock has been disabled by Ludwig due to the feature request fate #312407 ... IMHO the wrong decision. Next is that this boot script will not work with systemd as systemd simply mask the clock service. I've no idea if systemd provides a configurable systohc option at shutdown/reboot. Next problenm is that systemd does the clock handling at its own in the binary /lib/systemd/systemd and in /lib/systemd/systemd-timedated. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #45 from Frederic Crozat
@Frederic: How does systemd handle the clock at shutdown/reboot.
systemd relies on the kernel to sync the hardware clock, when ntp is running (ie the 11 minutes mode) So, maybe we should add a "hwclock-save" service at shutdown, to save the clock, if we aren't in ntp mode. Opinions welcome. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #46 from Frederic Crozat
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--- Comment #47 from Frederic Crozat
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--- Comment #49 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #50 from Frederic Crozat
(In reply to comment #47)
IMHO we should re-add a similar script for shutdown only which a) check for the existence of /etc/adjtime as then know about the reference clock of the RTC, b) the eleven minute mode is active due ntp, *and* c) if this eleven minute mode does really update the RTC. I've around the last version of the boot.clock script and I'd like to use the stop part from it to implement a systemd unit with this. Any opinions, comments, suggestions, and/or hints for/against this?
Yes, I was about to suggest something like that. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #51 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #52 from Frederic Crozat
Q: What is /usr/lib/systemd/system-shutdown for? Could it be used for a more flexible script at shutdown. This would avoid the to write out an environment file or use a huge one line bash command line on ExecStart?
systemd will execute all executable from this directory, just before doing the system shutdown. However, be careful, "All filesystems, swaps, loop devices, DM devices detached" so / will be ro. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #53 from Dr. Werner Fink
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--- Comment #54 from Frederic Crozat
OK ... good to know ...what is about /sys and /proc. Can I access those file systems?
I just checked on 12.2 : /proc and /sys are still mounted.. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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--- Comment #55 from Dr. Werner Fink
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https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=753932#c56
--- Comment #56 from Frederic Crozat
I've choosen the /etc/sysconfig/clock from 12.2 ... then only question is how the variable USE_ADJUST is used or could be used to enforce the systemd-timedated to use the two first lines of /etc/adjtime to adjust system clock by the offsets in /etc/adjtime ... or does systemd ignores this silently?
for timedated, /etc/sysconfig/clock is only read in Factory, not in 12.1 nor 12.2. And only TIMEZONE value is read from there. /etc/adjtime is the only file used for the offsets. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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Ludwig Nussel
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https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=753932#c58
--- Comment #58 from Frederic Crozat
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Frederic Crozat
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https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=753932#c59
Dr. Werner Fink
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https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=753932#c60
Frederic Crozat
How this is solved in systemd 208? Is it possible to use local time in CMOS clock. That is that the system clock will be written back to CMOS?
it isn't, since I didn't close the bug report.. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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