[Bug 230699] New: software management disk usage report should be smarter
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 Summary: software management disk usage report should be smarter Product: openSUSE 10.3 Version: unspecified Platform: Other OS/Version: Other Status: NEW Severity: Enhancement Priority: P5 - None Component: YaST2 AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: mrmazda@ij.net QAContact: jsrain@novell.com I can't think of any good reason why during initial installation or using software management after installation that non-local mounts belong in the lower left pane where mounts with their corresponding sizes and usage and freespace are reported. Always the most used mounted locations are at the top of the list, which for me never corresponds to any installation target location. YaST should by default either disregard non-local mounts (cifs, smfbs, nfs, etc), or list all local mounts above any non-local mounts. Also, the height of the disk space pane should by default be larger. Directly above that pane is a blank space roughly 5 times its height. I just opened it on 10.2, and its height allocation is about 10% at most of the (1600x1200 full screen) window height, providing space for only about 2.1 entries to show without scrolling. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 chrubis@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team- |fehr@novell.com |screening@forge.provo.novell| |.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 fehr@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|fehr@novell.com |sh@novell.com ------- Comment #1 from fehr@novell.com 2007-01-08 09:41 MST ------- yast2-storage has nothing to do with this display. Stefan is this your area, if not I hope you know to whon this could be reassigned. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #2 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-08 10:29 MST ------- (In reply to comment #0)
Also, the height of the disk space pane should by default be larger. Directly above that pane is a blank space roughly 5 times its height. I just opened it on 10.2, and its height allocation is about 10% at most of the (1600x1200 full screen) window height, providing space for only about 2.1 entries to show without scrolling.
That pane takes the content's preferred size into account - up to a limit. On my system (with 1280x1024 resolution) 4 items fit into the list without scrolling. 4 items make a reasonable default on most systems. But you can always move that pane's border up or down if you don't like the default. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |sh@novell.com AssignedTo|sh@novell.com |lslezak@novell.com Component|YaST2 |YaST2 Product|openSUSE 10.3 |openSUSE 10.2 ------- Comment #3 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-08 10:33 MST ------- (In reply to comment #0)
I can't think of any good reason why during initial installation or using software management after installation that non-local mounts belong in the lower left pane where mounts with their corresponding sizes and usage and freespace are reported. Always the most used mounted locations are at the top of the list, which for me never corresponds to any installation target location. YaST should by default either disregard non-local mounts (cifs, smfbs, nfs, etc), or list all local mounts above any non-local mounts.
I just checked: Only local mounts are displayed. That works nicely for me. I have a lot of NFS mounts, and I don't see any of them. Lada, any clue under which circumstances network mounts might be in that disk usage list? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #4 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-08 11:09 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=111873) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=111873&action=view) 1024x768 96 DPI screenshot exactly as opened 3 lines by default -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #5 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-08 11:09 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=111874) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=111874&action=view) 1600x1200 120 DPI screenshot exactly as opened 2 lines by default -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #6 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-08 11:09 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=111875) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=111875&action=view) 1600x1200 120 DPI screenshot showing all rw mounts in expanded list pane During installation mode, all mounts set for fstab entries during advanced partitioning (IIRC whether writable or not) show in the list, which to my recollection has never shown as many as 4 in the pane without adjusting it taller. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #7 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-08 11:24 MST ------- In comment 0 and all my subsequent comments "non-local" should be read to mean "non-local or non-native". Software should probably never be installed by YaST to NTFS, HPFS or FAT partitions. Probably the same rule should be applied to network mounts. I originally set the product to 10.3 because it was obviously too late to implement in the released product as an enhancement. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #8 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-08 11:52 MST ------- In general, the disk usage pane and the filter pane above it have to negotiate screen space demands. Since the upper pane (the filter pane) is really a stack of all the available filter views, in most cases it can put more screen space to good use: To display more of the RPM groups tree, more languages from the languages list, more patches (and more patch description) of the patches view, more patterns of the patterns list. Most of those filter views can scroll, i.e. they don't have a really useful default height. The same is true for the disk usage list. If there are no other restraints, the QSplitter widget that contains both panes will try to make a compromise - it will simply give each pane half of the available space. This behaviour is of course pretty simplistic, but it's what that QSplitter will do by default. So we have to introduce more restraints; obviously splitting the entire left pane in half height-wise is not the way to got. That restraint is a fixed preferred size for the disk usage list. In addition with Qt's size policies, we can manage to hold down the amount of screen space used for the disk usage pane, thus allowing more space for things that are commonly more useful for the user. Given a great amount of time, we could probably create our own resizing management of that left pane -- say, a minimum for the disk usage, plus somewhat more if there is a lot more than any of the filter views in the upper pane can reasonably use. But apart from programming time and resources this will also create a lot more bloat in the software for questionable return. It will certainly not make the code any more robust. I have doubts if it even will work in all scenarios; some users will want more screen space for one or the other of the filter views, some will want more space for the disk usage. You can't be everybody's darling. Been there, done that. That's ultimately why the dividing line can be moved. There is no generic solution to that problem. There can always only be a compromise, and compromises by their very nature do not please everybody. Sorry. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #9 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-08 12:00 MST ------- As for file system types: No, we do not have nor do we want restrictions there. Local file systems will be displayed, no matter what type they are. If somebody chooses to install on NTFS, so be it. I would advise against it, but if users want it, we let them do it. For networked file systems in principle the same holds true. It might very well be that the difference between my system (no network mounts displayed) and yours (lots of network mounts displayed) is that your network mounts are listed in /etc/fstab while I am using the automounter (no /etc/fstab entries). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #10 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-08 12:51 MST ------- re comment 8: 2 readable lines is just not a big enough minimum. That's the absurd behavior of M$ windoz with its itty bitty windows and select lists. 2 is too few. No select list should ever be shorter than 3-4 lines, but they commonly do only 2, which is what I routinely see from YaST. 2 is too few. Whatever the simplistic solution is currently needs a tweak. 2 is too few. Obviously as you say 50/50 isn't suitable, but given the adjustability anything that can be done simply should be done to ensure 3 or more by default, preferably 4. 2 is too few. If this were a web page I would simply set min-height: 3em for the space content pane's container. 2 is too few. 2 is too few. 2 is too few. re comment 9: Inappropriate targets would not be so bothersome of the sort would default to show appropriate targets first instead of full or nearly full FAT partitions, and the list by default was some reasonable height (2 is too few). Right now the default sort is freespace-based. Why? Why not change it to name? That way at least / would show before windoz stuff, and shouldn't create bloat, or take much time to fix. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|lslezak@novell.com |sh@novell.com Status|NEW |ASSIGNED ------- Comment #11 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-09 04:20 MST ------- (In reply to comment #10)
No select list should ever be shorter than 3-4 lines, but they commonly do only 2, which is what I routinely see from YaST.
This is simply not true, and you know that. Sorry. I do not discuss on that level.
re comment 9: Inappropriate targets would not be so bothersome of the sort would default to show appropriate targets first instead of full or nearly full FAT partitions
Click on whatever column you want that list sorted by. It's that easy. The default sorting is by "most full" which is the single one reason why this disk usage display is there in the first place. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX ------- Comment #12 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-09 04:23 MST ------- This has cost me enough time already. Bottom line: Way too much hassle to do improve this -- for very little gain. And for fringe cases, too (only applies to 1600x1000 or larger with very large fonts, and with many non-related partitions). The associated cost cannot be justified economically. WONTFIX. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #13 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112062) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112062&action=view) 1280x960 100 DPI screenshot as opened 3 lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #14 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112063) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112063&action=view) 1400x1050 108 DPI screenshot as opened almost 3 lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #15 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112064) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112064&action=view) 1792x1344 132 DPI screenshot as opened 2 lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #16 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112065) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112065&action=view) 2048x1536 144 DPI screenshot as opened 2 lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #17 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112066) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112066&action=view) screenshot 11.1" Sony WXGA 137 DPI laptop as opened 2 lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #18 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112067) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112067&action=view) screenshot typical 15" 101 DPI WXGA laptop as opened 3 lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #19 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112068) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112068&action=view) screenshot 16" 106 DPI widescreen laptop as opened almost 3 lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #20 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:49 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112069) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112069&action=view) screenshot 17" SXGA+ 116 DPI laptop as opened 2 usable lines, plus horizontal scroll -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #21 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:50 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112070) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112070&action=view) screenshot 17" WUXGA 133 DPI laptop as opened 2 lines, plus horizontal scroll Note that this and the 4 previous screenshots are representative of what stores currently are selling, and that laptops have been outselling desktops for quite some time. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #22 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-09 10:50 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112071) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112071&action=view) screenshot 200 DPI as opened 1 line, plus horizontal scroll
The default sorting is by "most full" which is the single one reason why this disk usage display is there in the first place
That's fine only if the first line isn't a FAT partition or if all partitions show by default. The freespace on DOS's itty bitty 100% full C: partition has no relevance to installing SuSE or its packages. / should be hard coded to row 1, and FAT partitions should be hard coded to the bottom. Sorting should only apply to what's left. The current summary of this bug represents a subset of a larger problem with YaST that must at some point be addressed. Average DPIs of under 90 are now history. DPIs are up, and climbing. 120 DPI is now common. 200 DPI is the current fringe case, not 120, which is a common setting on XP laptops now in stores. The overall design of YaST needs to recognize this, and quit treating people who choose quality hardware as exceptions undeserving of the extra quality computing experience they expect from spending more. Note in the YaST Control Center that 200 DPI breaks words in the middle. No one who can afford a 200 DPI display deserves to be confronted with something so hideous. At the very least regarding the current bug summary, the resize grabber needs to be made apparent. It is much too faint, and unlikely to be noticed by people with over-40 eyesight and/or high resolution displays without sticking their noses up too close to the screen. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #23 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-10 03:51 MST ------- You also have to take older hardware into account. Not everybody buys a new computer every year. Support for lower resolutions like 1024x768 is even more crucial than support for ultra-hi-res like 1600x1000+: If something does not fit on 1024x768, there are no simple workarounds like moving subwindow borders around. You simply cannot use the software then because some important buttons will be off-screen or because some button labels will be cut off, thus making them illegible, thus making the software unusable. As a matter of fact, we still have to support 800x600. There was a huge outcry already when we dropped support for 640x480 or lower with yast2-qt. Also, don't forget that even hi-res machines sometimes have broken BIOSes that make resolutions beyond 1024x768 unusable in VESA modes, which is all that we can rely on during installation. Of course, most users see the world mainly from their own perspective, demanding that their personal case has to be optimized. But the world is not as simple as that. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #24 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-10 03:54 MST ------- LOL: Here we go again with 640x480: bug #227559 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #25 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-13 09:53 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=112873) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=112873&action=view) 800x600 80 DPI screenshot as opened (cheap old 14" nominal, 12.5" actual CRT) Only 3 lines here too. In comment 2, SH claimed 4 was a reasonable default, and I agree. Yet, 0 of the screenshots show more than 3, and on all the resizer is virtually invisible. There is all kinds of unnecessary whitespace that could be removed to bring the default up to 4 lines. If you're going to refer to a limited access bug like 227559 in a public bug you should provide some summary of its significance. Wontfixing this shows an attitude that SUSE has no longer has interest in being best of breed. If current assignee has no time or interest, leave it open and unassigned so someone else might. After all, this is OpenSUSE, not proprietary take or leave it M$-ware. And, this is about 10.3 (as originally filed), not 10.2. It's about improving, not making perfect. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 mrmazda@ij.net changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Component|YaST2 |YaST2 Product|openSUSE 10.2 |openSUSE 10.3 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Component|YaST2 |YaST2 Product|openSUSE 10.3 |openSUSE 10.2 ------- Comment #26 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-15 04:14 MST ------- (In reply to comment #25)
Wontfixing this shows an attitude that SUSE has no longer has interest in being best of breed.
That's very close to saying "Oh, those lazy bastards don't drop whatever they do right away and take care of my favourite problem". Frankly, I spent way too much on a non-issue like this already. And I am not prepared to spend any more time on it. I explained thoroughly why. If you are unwilling to accept that, there is nothing I can (or want to) do for you.
If current assignee has no time or interest, leave it open and unassigned so someone else might.
Yeah, sure, leave it unassigned. To make sure in 10 minutes one of our bug-reassignment people take care of it and assign it to whomever they think is the right person. That would be me. You don't seem to know how our business processes work, yet you are telling me how to do my work. This does not work out. You know, I could also do what many others do and set an issue like that to LATER, promising I'd take care of it some time in the future. But since I know that would be a fake promise, I don't do that. I consider it important to remain honest with people. If I know something will never happen, I tell people so. But I expect the same level of respect from the other side. After I have given an issue some thought, looking at it from all possible sides, and evaluating the pros and cons of any apparent solution, there is a decision. That decision might be "we will do it" (now -> ACCEPT, later -> LATER, whatever), "we could do it, but it would be an economic nightmare" (way too expensive) -> WONTFIX, "we could do it, but the result would be unmaintainable" -> WONTFIX, or "you only see part of the problem, your proposed solution will have bad effects on other users in other cases" -> INVALID. If you don't want honesty, please reopen this, so I can set it to LATER and leave it to rot forevermore.
After all, this is OpenSUSE, not proprietary take or leave it M$-ware.
Frankly, I have yet to see the first code contribution from the community to any of this. There are some very active people who file bug reports, some others who make suggestions (sometimes with good ideas, sometime the ideas are ..err.. too creative to be feasible), but I have not yet received one single patch for any of my YaST2 packages.
And, this is about 10.3 (as originally filed), not 10.2. It's about improving, not making perfect.
It's not about 10.3 because THERE IS NO 10.3 YET. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 mrmazda@ij.net changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Component|YaST2 |YaST2 Keywords| |Polish Product|openSUSE 10.2 |openSUSE 10.3 ------- Comment #27 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-15 07:05 MST ------- (In reply to comment #26)
It's not about 10.3 because THERE IS NO 10.3 YET.
It is not about 10.2 because this is an enhancement request and 10.2 has been released. Releases (normally) only can get security bug fixes, not enhancements. OTOH: 1-Factory is what 10.3 (or whatever next release gets called) will eventually be 2-Factory is not an option in the version list 3-10.3 (next release) is the only place appropriate for an enhancement to target
You don't seem to know how our business processes work, yet you are telling me how to do my work. This does not work out.
Stefan, SUSE development is not about "I" (Stefan). It's a community effort, even as little as you feel the community contributes. It's quite obvious from your comments you're too busy to deal with polish. That shouldn't obviate a potential fix from someone else in the community. You could add helpwanted to status whiteboard to indicate someone besides assignee is invited to provide a fix. Wontfix indicates a community contribution would be rejected, even though making the resizer discoverable would probably amount to nothing more than a few minutes to change its color. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #28 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-15 07:26 MST ------- I certainly need you to explain me how my job works. Thank you very much for that. I feel so much warmer in my heart knowing that there are those masses of people out there only waiting to put out a helping hand for an ignorant little developer like me. I only hope the same people are also ready to take the responsibility for the package if something goes wrong. If bug reports start coming. If there are crashes. Will they work overtime for fixes? So far, nobody went out of his way to do anything like that. And I have serious doubts if that will happen anytime soon. I don't quite get the meaning of your "too busys to do with polish". Sorry. And no, there will be NO different colors for any standard widgets like that splitter. Not because of the workload involved with it, but BECAUSE IT IS NONSENSE. Most users know very well how to handle standard dialog elements. Putting more emphasis to them would be a really bad move in terms of usability. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #29 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-15 08:01 MST ------- I, me, my, I, me, my, I, me, my, yada, yada. Again, this isn't about Stefan. (In reply to comment #28)
I don't quite get the meaning of your "too busys to do with polish".
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi Polish: "Bugs which require only a small change for a noticable improvement in the user interface". http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/polish "to render finished, refined, or elegant".
And no, there will be NO different colors for any standard widgets like that splitter. Not because of the workload involved with it, but BECAUSE IT IS NONSENSE. Most users know very well how to handle standard dialog elements. Putting more emphasis to them would be a really bad move in terms of usability.
I see, because most users know where these virtually invisible widgets are, it's OK for the rest of users who are not familiar (e.g. during first time SUSE installation) or have poorer eyesight than you (an average person rather as opposed to a developer) to not know they are there. This widget color is not nonsense. This bug is indeed about usability. More emphasis than none (as now) would not be a bad move. I guess though if that is indeed a "standard" widget, a new bug is needed about the visibility/usability of the "standard" widget. At least in Mozilla products I can see the resizer widgets without a magnifier. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |CLOSED ------- Comment #30 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-17 11:39 MST ------- (In reply to comment #29)
I, me, my, I, me, my, I, me, my, yada, yada. Again, this isn't about Stefan.
Reading this as well as other posts of yours on openSUSE lists suggests you have a general attitude problem. Sorry, I am not willing to discuss on this level. Discussion closed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 ------- Comment #31 from mrmazda@ij.net 2007-01-17 18:22 MST ------- You weren't discussing anything except Stefan Hundhammer anyway. I do have a problem. I have a problem accepting user interfaces that are needlessly difficult for those with sub-average vision to cope with. You young developers as a group have no concept of the difficulty we seniors have working with vision that is a small fraction of what we once had. Can your grandmother's sister find that resizer widget without your help? I'll bet if she's alive she can't. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=230699 sh@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | ------- Comment #32 from sh@novell.com 2007-01-18 04:20 MST ------- This insanity has gone far enough. I am not prepared to put up with any of your insults any more. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
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