[Bug 227794] New: New fontconfig defaults produce bad results w/ Albany AMT font
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 Summary: New fontconfig defaults produce bad results w/ Albany AMT font Product: openSUSE 10.2 Version: Final Platform: i586 OS/Version: SuSE Other Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: X.Org AssignedTo: sndirsch@novell.com ReportedBy: bobf@bfarmer.net QAContact: sndirsch@novell.com It would appear in 10.2 that if the user chooses not to install Microsoft's fonts, the default sans serif font is Albany AMT, the same as in 10.1. However, it appears the config in /etc/fonts/suse-hinting.conf has been changed since 10.1, it now turns off autohint by default for all TrueType fonts and only turns it back on for certain select fonts (Albany AMT not being one of them). The Albany AMT font seems to have an issue when autohint is NOT on, at certain smaller sizes. The standard English lowercase "a" appears to have a spurious pixel (sort of looking like an accent mark). It is always visible when antialiasing is off, and when the autohinter is off. So the only combination that hides this artifact is turning both AA and autohint on, which appears to have been the case in 10.1. I will attach screenshots of the Novell Bugzilla login page, the first one is with the default SuSE 10.2 font config, the second one is after I created a ~/.fonts.conf to force autohint on for Albany AMT at pixel sizes <= 11. I have tested this now on two fresh installs on different systems of 10.2. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #1 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-11 17:14 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109254) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109254&action=view) Bugzilla login page w/ standard 10.2 font config (with NO MS fonts) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #2 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-11 17:15 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109255) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109255&action=view) Bugzilla login page as above but with my ~/.fonts.conf workaround -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #3 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-11 17:22 MST ------- Minor correction: I turned off AA before I took the first screenshot. The rest is the default. Second screenshot has both AA and autohint on, of course. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #4 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-11 17:46 MST ------- Did some testing on this with ftstring. For example: ftstring -m "aaaaaaaaa" -r 72 10 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/albw.ttf At 72 DPI as above, you will see the artifact at 10 point size, when you use the "f" key to turn off autohinting. (in this particular set up, it seems that turning on autohint alone makes the artifact disappear, unlike my earlier tests above where it required both AA+autohint to be on...not sure why) The artifact will appear at different point sizes depending on the DPI you use. Interestingly, at 96 DPI, it never appears. Perhaps another workaround is to force X to report your DPI as 96. (My test systems have DPI's of 86 and 98 so I saw the issue on both) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #5 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-11 18:23 MST ------- Appears the problem still shows up if you force X to 96 DPI. Guess ftstring just never hits the right size, dunno. Also, I tried agfa-fonts package from SuSE 10.1, didn't change anything. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 sndirsch@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|sndirsch@novell.com |mfabian@novell.com Component|X.Org |Other -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #6 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-11 22:04 MST ------- I noticed the letter "e" has the same problem, for example: ftstring -m "eee" -r 90 7 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/albw.ttf Turn autohinting off and you should see spurious pixel(s) to the bottom right of the character... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #7 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 00:42 MST ------- Re-installed SuSE 10.1 on one of my systems, confirmed that autohinting was on by default there for Albany AMT (unlike 10.2)...turned it off, and confirmed the same weirdness on those particular letters happens there, too. I thought it might be caused by the new version of FreeType, but guess not. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX ------- Comment #8 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 04:28 MST ------- This is either a bug in the font or in the byte code interpreter implementation of freetype. If it is a bug in the byte code interpreter in freetype, it was already there before as you confirmed in comment #7. In case it is a bug in freetype, it should be fixed there, turning off the byte code interpreter and using the autohinter instead is no solution as it makes most other glyphs more ugly. Therefore I will not turn on the autohinter for "Albany AMT" by default because although there is a problem with the 'a' (only when antialiasing is off), it still looks much better for most other glyphs when the byte code interpreter is used. Have a look at the 'w' and the 'x' for example with and without the autohinter with antialiasing off. On top of that, this problem occurs only if the byte code interpreter is used *and* antialiasing is off. As antialiasing is on by default for all sizes, there is no problem a default installation. → WONTFIX. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #9 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 04:31 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109306) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109306&action=view) autohint-on-off-comparison.png -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #10 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 04:32 MST ------- The screen shot in comment #9 shows that it looks much better when using the byte code interpreter and not the autohinter for most glyphs. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 bobf@bfarmer.net changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | ------- Comment #11 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 10:14 MST ------- Actually, the problem happens for me even with antialiasing on, though I see my wording in the original report may have been misleading there. Did you not see it either way in ftstring? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #12 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 10:25 MST ------- Just to make sure, I happened to be finishing up a SuSE 10.2 install just now. I chose not to install Microsoft fonts. Upon logging into the fresh system, the first thing I did was bring up Firefox and visit bugzilla.novell.com, then hit "Login". The problem is clearly visible... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |coolo@novell.com Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX ------- Comment #13 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 10:38 MST ------- No, with antialiasing it is not visible. There is a light gray pixel at the top left of the a, but it isn't really visible as it is so light gray. And, all other glyphs look much better with the autohinter off, even with antialiasing. Even 'a' looks better with the autohinter switched off with antialiasing. OK, there is this light gray pixel at the top left, but the rest of the 'a' looks better. If you have time and want to do something more, please check how "Albany AMT" is rendered under Windows XP with and without antialiasing and whether you can reproduce the problem there. I have no Windows available. If the same problem occurs under Windows, it is a bug in the font. If not, it might be a bug in freetype2 and should be reported as a bug against freetype2. But I will not change the default rendering style and make most glyphs look worse just because of a small error in a single glyph. The choice of the default depends on what looks best on average. If most glyphs of "Albany AMT" look better without the autohinter, then the autohinter should be off for "Albany AMT". → WONTFIX. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #14 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 10:40 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109376) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109376&action=view) autohint-on-off-comparison-with-antialiasing.png -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #15 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 10:42 MST ------- screen shots in the last comment created with ftstring -m "a quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" -r 72 10 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/albw.ttf -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #16 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 10:46 MST ------- Bob Farmer> It would appear in 10.2 that if the user chooses not to Bob Farmer> install Microsoft's fonts, the default sans serif font is Bob Farmer> Albany AMT, the same as in 10.1. No, actually the default font of a openSUSE 10.2 default installation is "DejaVu Sans". Only if you install the "agfa-fonts" package from the commercial addons, then "Albany AMT" will become the default font. And if you install the Microsoft Webfonts as well, "Arial" will become the default font. I.e. a solution for you is either - remove the package agfa-fonts to get DejaVu Sans or - install the Microsoft Webfonts to get Arial -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #17 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 10:58 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109378) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109378&action=view) Novell Bugzilla login appearance, with AA on in default SuSE 10.2 install (w/ commercial pkgs and no MS fonts) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #18 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 11:03 MST ------- I guess it is subjective about "how visible" it is with AA on, but to me it's very visible (see the above attachment). I didn't understand how it would have gotten past QA, but I think you partially clarified that--if you don't install the commercial addons, Albany AMT won't become your default font. I think most users will install the commercial addons though, because they want things like Flash and Acrobat Reader, etc? I tried the Albany AMT font in Windows, went through each point size in Microsoft Word, and never saw the problem, so there's a good chance it's a bug in FreeType then? Anyhow, I don't need a workaround for myself, I already have one (autohint turned on at pixel sizes <= 11 for Albany AMT), was just reporting this so it might not turn off potential future users of SuSE when they login and are immediately greeted with screwy characters... As for the Microsoft fonts, I don't install them because I think they look horrible with FreeType's AA on (they are great fonts if you want to turn off AA though). Albany AMT and DejaVu Sans both look great with FreeType AA, but Albany AMT has this issue, and I had an issue with DejaVu Sans where it was screwing up the style on some web pages (it looks like its geometry doesn't really match Arial's, unlike Albany AMT). But this is off-topic now... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #19 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 13:56 MST ------- Just a final FYI for anyone interested, it would appear that the latest development snapshot of FreeType has made the autohinter look much better on this font. I will attach a screenshot. The top images are AA on, autohint off. SuSE 10.2 on the left, latest FreeType CVS on the right. The bottom images are AA on, autohint on. Again SuSE 10.2 on the left, latest FreeType CVS on the right. I think it's safe to say the autohinted version on the bottom left is the worst of the four, but some might argue that the autohinted version on the bottom right is the best. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #20 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 13:57 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=109405) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=109405&action=view) Albany AMT. top = no autohint, bottom = autohint; left = SuSE 10.2, right = latest FreeType CVS -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #21 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 14:30 MST -------
I think it's safe to say the autohinted version on the bottom left is the worst of the four,
Yes.
but some might argue that the autohinted version on the bottom right is the best.
Although the autohinter apparently has improved in Freetype CVS, I still think that the byte code interpreter version at the top is better (The two versions of Freetype render identically with bytecode). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #22 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-12 14:34 MST -------
I still think that the byte code interpreter version at the top is better
Because it has higher contrast. The autohinter rendering at the bottom right renders the shapes rather well (although the glyphs appear to wide) but they have more gray and less white. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=227794 ------- Comment #23 from bobf@bfarmer.net 2006-12-12 14:44 MST ------- Yep, true, and I can already see that the extra width (from that FreeType CVS autohint version) causes problems on web pages that expect the Arial width. Though DejaVu Sans is far worse in that area... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
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