[Bug 492665] New: net-tools: obsolete old tools
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 Summary: net-tools: obsolete old tools Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 11.2 Version: Factory Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: Enhancement Priority: P5 - None Component: Network AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: jengelh@medozas.de QAContact: qa@suse.de Found By: Beta-Customer Programs from net-tools have modern equivalents: arp -> ip neigh ifconfig -> ip addr/ip link ipmaddr -> ip maddr iptunnel -> ip tunnel netstat -> ss route -> ip route -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User meissner@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c1 Marcus Meissner <meissner@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO CC| |meissner@novell.com Info Provider| |jengelh@medozas.de --- Comment #1 from Marcus Meissner <meissner@novell.com> 2009-04-07 02:07:11 MDT --- .. and ? Lots of users are accustomed to those tools, so we should not just remove them. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c2 Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW Info Provider|jengelh@medozas.de | --- Comment #2 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-07 04:57:18 MDT --- I can count up enough problems with ifconfig to make that move worth it. Well if you can think of something to make users (esp. users new to Linux) use the replacements, I'm all ears. Experience however shows that they will rarely ever learn if something does not stop working at some point. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User meissner@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c3 Marcus Meissner <meissner@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |ms@novell.com |ovo.novell.com | --- Comment #3 from Marcus Meissner <meissner@novell.com> 2009-04-07 05:06:44 MDT --- problems alright, but i probably can come up with same number of scripts that rely on its output ;) what about a nag line printed to stderr? "ifconfig is obsolete: use "ip addr"" ... or similar for those tools? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c4 --- Comment #4 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-09 02:38:46 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=284957) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=284957) proposed patch for net-tools-1.60-726.1 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User ms@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c5 Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jengelh@medozas.de Summary|net-tools: obsolete old |net-tools: print warning |tools |message when using obsolete | |tools --- Comment #5 from Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> 2009-04-20 04:11:18 MDT --- Hmm, the patch calls functions: obsolescense_warning obsolescence_warning ^ maybe a typo ? and in ifconfig.c the function is called but not defined so it does not compile with a "undefined reference" error additionally the "obsolescence_*" calls happens twice times under certain circumstances could you improve that and resend the patch I like the idea Thanks -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c6 Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW Info Provider|jengelh@medozas.de | --- Comment #6 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-20 04:29:13 MDT --- Hm.. I have a working variant at http://tinyurl.com/jengftp/SRPMS-11.1/net-tools-1.60-726.1.jen1.src.rpm The comments in the code/patch says why exactly this happens twice. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User ms@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c7 Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jengelh@medozas.de --- Comment #7 from Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> 2009-04-20 05:22:35 MDT --- would you mind to send a patch file from your src rpm thanks -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User ms@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c8 --- Comment #8 from Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> 2009-04-20 08:59:51 MDT --- I have checked your src RPM and found that you have added the missing obsolescense_warning function (the one with the "s") inside an already existing patch file: net-tools-1.60-interface_mtu.diff That's the reason why it doesn't build on my side. I'm not going to include the patch the way it is at the moment it doesn't look clean to me. Would be great if you can provide one patch with a clean set of obsolescence_warning functions. BTW with an "s" is also wrong English :) Thanks -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c9 Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment #284957|0 |1 is obsolete| | Status|NEEDINFO |NEW Info Provider|jengelh@medozas.de | --- Comment #9 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-20 09:34:36 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=286863) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=286863) new patch More eyes are always a good thing. Here it is. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c10 Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment #286863|0 |1 is obsolete| | --- Comment #10 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-20 09:41:27 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=286866) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=286866) cleaned up now for sure -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c11 Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment #286866|0 |1 is obsolete| | --- Comment #11 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-20 09:45:19 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=286868) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=286868) -.- I am pretty much out of luck today with patch generation. Changes to the first: - periods at end of sentence - "ip -s link" instead of "ip -s link show dev eth0" for stats of all interfaces - obsolescense -> ~ce - removed hunk inserting blank lines - other strange changes (line with "TX-OK", whereever that came from) -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User ms@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c12 Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED --- Comment #12 from Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> 2009-04-21 01:18:50 MDT --- :-) great looks much better now. I have added the patch Thanks for your effort -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User pascal.bleser@opensuse.org added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c13 Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@opensuse.org> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |pascal.bleser@opensuse.org --- Comment #13 from Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@opensuse.org> 2009-04-28 19:01:39 MDT --- Still seems questionable though. openSUSE 11.2 would be the only Unix in town where those basic tools would throw warnings. Is that really such a good plan ? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User mrueckert@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c14 Marcus Rückert <mrueckert@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |mrueckert@novell.com --- Comment #14 from Marcus Rückert <mrueckert@novell.com> 2009-04-28 19:06:09 MDT --- how about limiting the warnings too --help and in the man pages? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c15 --- Comment #15 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-29 00:51:37 MDT --- People don't read manpages, much less --help texts. Instead they copy and paste whatever crap they find in totally outdated howtos. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User cyberorg@opensuse.org added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c16 Jigish Gohil <cyberorg@opensuse.org> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |cyberorg@opensuse.org --- Comment #16 from Jigish Gohil <cyberorg@opensuse.org> 2009-04-29 01:05:42 MDT --- Lets call it "info messages" instead of warning. Check out ntpdate and python, it gets annoying to see the messages they print every time it is run, it would be great if it is configurable option "obsolescense_warning=true/false". -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c17 --- Comment #17 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-29 01:25:06 MDT --- And where would you enable obsolescense_warning, anyway? I find the ntpdate warning (in fact, _error_) perfectly fine. If it was not for it, I would still be using ntpdate. There is a point to all the nagging. (But I do not know what python warning message you are referring to.) -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User pascal.bleser@opensuse.org added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c18 --- Comment #18 from Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@opensuse.org> 2009-04-29 04:13:29 MDT --- I agree that it is useful, and forces people to switch to the newer, better, more accurate tools. But then again, one might encounter scripts that have been written for several platforms (including old Linux versions or AIX or HPUX or ...) that use those old CLI tools. Throwing warnings or errors at them would break compatibility (even if it's arguable, given that some of those old tools are not always correct) with many years of Unix. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c19 --- Comment #19 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-04-29 04:44:10 MDT --- If there are any programs, it would be best to name them now. I already mentioned openvpn in another bugreport and then it was fixed. BSD's ifconfig output even looks more like iproute2's (for scripts that "incorrectly" want to e.g. grep for an address). Solaris's route command has different fields. And speaking of grep, having localization turned on already broke about every script that grepped on text. I don't buy the compatibility argument. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c20 Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|FIXED | --- Comment #20 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-07-04 06:13:54 MDT --- I still don't see this in factory despite RESOLVED-FIXED. What's holding up? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User ms@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c21 Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED --- Comment #21 from Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> 2009-07-07 03:07:12 MDT --- don't know what happened. I resubmitted the patch now It's submit request: 13663 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User mrueckert@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c22 --- Comment #22 from Marcus Rückert <mrueckert@novell.com> 2009-07-07 07:04:07 MDT --- it got rejected as i dont see a reason to complain on *every* call of the tools. i would understand to show it on --help and in the manpages. but not on every call. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c23 --- Comment #23 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-07-07 07:26:11 MDT --- (In reply to comment #22)
it got rejected as i dont see a reason to complain on *every* call of the tools. i would understand to show it on --help and in the manpages. but not on every call.
See comment #15. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User mrueckert@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c24 --- Comment #24 from Marcus Rückert <mrueckert@novell.com> 2009-07-07 07:49:11 MDT --- that did not convince me back then and it does not convince me now. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c25 --- Comment #25 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-07-07 08:14:52 MDT --- So what DOES convince you, then? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iproute/+bug/225997 “I really wonder why so many distributions still ship the deprecated net-tools package. It hasn't seen developement in seven years...” Keeping ifconfig is like keeping users in the dark on purpose. If you want that to be Novell mission, be my guest. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User mrueckert@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c26 --- Comment #26 from Marcus Rückert <mrueckert@novell.com> 2009-07-07 08:30:11 MDT --- how about making a package that just adds the warning to help/documentation? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c27 --- Comment #27 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-07-07 09:58:26 MDT --- A waste of time. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User aj@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c28 Andreas Jaeger <aj@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED CC| |aj@novell.com, | |coolo@novell.com Resolution|FIXED | --- Comment #28 from Andreas Jaeger <aj@novell.com> 2009-07-09 08:40:20 MDT --- The output of the tools and the tools are different. I know that for some features, you need iproute2. but does using ifconfig produces any errors - or is it just a limitation? I see Fedora and Ubuntu both still using net-config, correct? Shouldn't we discuss this with other distributions first and if some more agree, let's move together... Such a change - to depreciate netconfig - is something that should be handled as a feature - or let's discuss it on opensuse-factory. And if we want to go down this road, we should announce it so that users of net-config can change their scripts. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User aj@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c29 --- Comment #29 from Andreas Jaeger <aj@novell.com> 2009-07-09 13:32:38 MDT --- I just checked in openSUSE 11.1 the network scripts - and could not find a trace of route or ifconfig, so we're quite good already! ifdown-connection uses still netstat, this could be changed. that's far better than expected! -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c30 --- Comment #30 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-07-09 13:52:15 MDT --- (In reply to comment #28)
I see Fedora and Ubuntu both still using net-config, correct?
Just because "They" are stuck in the past does not mean SUSE should do the same. Extra discussion would just delay things. If nobody moves forward, who will? And IMHO, it is way more cool if SUSE moved the feet first and unilaterally so, to make a stance. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User meissner@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c31 --- Comment #31 from Marcus Meissner <meissner@novell.com> 2009-07-09 14:19:14 MDT --- well, we install "ip" y default (afaik). unfortunately users won't change until they see something new that they cannot do with the old tools. at least for ipv6 people will start using it more. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User coolo@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c32 --- Comment #32 from Stephan Kulow <coolo@novell.com> 2009-07-10 02:00:23 MDT --- @#30: If you read what our users think, I think their stance is that SUSE did too many of the "move first" moves in the past. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c33 --- Comment #33 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-07-10 04:26:30 MDT --- What do these users think? References? Much less painful moves than Fedora. Also, we are not talking about removing ifconfig here, but writing out a warning message. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User ms@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c34 Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #34 from Marcus Schaefer <ms@novell.com> 2009-07-10 05:00:13 MDT --- I think using the old tools is worth to see a warning especially because the old stuff like ifconfig or netstat can't be used reliable in scripts as mentioned more than one time in this report. Stuff like ip or ss are much better here and if we at SuSE use the old stuff we should also think of switching to the new tools all that is only my personal opinion and I know there are way too many people who think differently. I have disabled the patch which displays the warnings and I strongly recommend to start discussing about it again if we are all really willing to do the change I agree with Andreas Jaeger that bugzilla is not the right place to talk about it. I think this should be discussed inside the openSUSE community and not here
From a technical perspective all is done, it's just a spec file change to add the patch or not from now on. I will close this one for now as wontfix if we agree to add that patch reopen it
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From a SLES perspective, one could even make a point that if there are serious
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User okir@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c35 --- Comment #35 from Olaf Kirch <okir@novell.com> 2009-08-17 04:20:55 MDT --- I think we agree that we can't just remove or break these commands. There are still casual users who at least use these tools for displaying network configuration status. People may even have scripts looking at these outputs. Third party software probably relies on them quite a lot, because ISVs go for the greatest common denominator on unixish systems. [I looked at my 11.1 installation, and found scripts from python, yast2, qt etc all using ifconfig.] My fundamental objection to the proposed "print a warning" approach is basically tells the user he's doing something wrong and that he should grow up and RTFM. It's the kind of solution that's easy on the programmer but hard on the user (especially if there's no way of getting rid of these annoying messages). So if the use of tools like ifconfig, route etc is indeed a serious problem (which I'm not yet convinced of) then a good approach would be to suggest an alternative command line using the corresponding iputils command. For instance, if the user types "ifconfig eth0 10.1.1.1 netmask ..." then the tool should try to be as helpful as possible, and suggest "ip addr add 10.1.1.1/24 dev eth0 .." The more specific question I have is, what kinds of problems are we talking about in ifconfig and route? Are these functional deficiencies in the sense that iputils are simply more complete, or are these actual bugs where a user would not get the behavior to be expected? problems in ifconfig and route, we should see whether they can be fixed - Unix users migrating to SLES expect these to simply work. At a very minimum, I would suggest to a) send warnings to stderr not stdout, so we're not messing up scripts which parse the output b) make these warnings configurable through /etc/nettools.conf and/or $HOME/.nettoolsrc c) tell the user how to shut up the warning -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 User jengelh@medozas.de added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c36 --- Comment #36 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2009-08-17 06:08:56 MDT ---
because ISVs go for the greatest common denominator on unixish systems.
I already invalidated this argument: the BSD and Solaris ifconfig output actually resembles that of iproute2's.
what kinds of problems are we talking about in ifconfig and route? functional deficiencies in the sense that iputils are simply more complete, or are these actual bugs
It's like a Kinder Surprise Egg, with “three things at once”: functional deficiencies, logistic deficiencies, and bugs. See http://jengelh.medozas.de/2008/0219-ifconfig-sucks.php
a) send warnings to stderr not stdout, so we're not messing up scripts which parse the output
Sending warnings to stderr can, on the other hand, trip up programs which expect real warnings on stderr, not some informational message that I am proposing. stdout was also chosen, because users might use $PAGER which commonly overwrites screen lines with stdout output, giving no way to show stderr messages in interactive mode unless the user explicitly uses 2>&1. ifconfig has been a free-form format for all time anyhow, scripts parsing ifconfig output walk on thin ice anyway, and the proposed message does not change that, nor does it contain any keyword that, IMO, would change the most common grep operations. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c37 --- Comment #37 from Thorsten Kukuk <kukuk@novell.com> 2010-02-08 10:52:39 UTC --- (In reply to comment #36)
because ISVs go for the greatest common denominator on unixish systems.
I already invalidated this argument: the BSD and Solaris ifconfig output actually resembles that of iproute2's.
So than the correct solution would be, to modify the iproute2 package to become comptible with BSD and Solaris and not introduce something new, incompatible. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665#c38 --- Comment #38 from Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@medozas.de> 2010-02-08 11:25:54 UTC --- (In reply to comment #37)
So than the correct solution would be, to modify the iproute2 package to become comptible with BSD and Solaris and not introduce something new, incompatible.
By changing the iproute2 command line syntax you would introduce an incompatibility. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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