[Bug 240102] New: Can't control SPDIF output with KMix, must use aumix
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 Summary: Can't control SPDIF output with KMix, must use aumix Product: openSUSE 10.2 Version: Final Platform: x86-64 OS/Version: Other Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: Sound AssignedTo: tiwai@novell.com ReportedBy: rmuncrief@comcast.net QAContact: qa@suse.de Hardware -------- OS: openSuse 10.2 Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-SLI Processor: Ahtlon 64 3000+ Video: Nvidia 7800GT Sound: Integrated AC7 RAM: 1GB Hard Disks: SATA Maxtor 6V200E0, SATA Western Digital WD1200JS CD-ROM: Sony CDU5221 DVD-RW: Lite-On LH-18A1P Hi, This is an odd bug which has existed since at least openSuse 10.1, and if you Google it you will find it is causing a lot of frustration and lost openSuse adopters. I have characterized the problem as best I can, and I'm sure it can be easily fixed. It looks like no one has ever filed a bug report about it though, at least I couldn't find any. Here's the problem. On my hardware, and I've read about the same problem on other hardware, the SPDIF output can't be turned on or off with KMix. In fact, the only way to control SPDIF output is to load the old aumix program and press the "M" mute key. When you do this, SPDIF magically turns on. Press "M" again and it will turn off. And here's the most mysterious part. When you turn SPDIF on or off with aumix, nothing you do with KMix has any effect on the SPDIF or normal speaker output. You can change any output, input, or switch you want with KMix and it has absolutely no effect. This indicates that aumix is controlling something that isn't even touched by KMix. As I said before, this is a major problem and unless users are lucky and persist ant enough to Google the aumix answer (as I was), it appears that SPDIF simply doesn't work. Please let me know if you need any other information or logs. I will be glad to help. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 ------- Comment #1 from rmuncrief@comcast.net 2007-01-29 18:21 MST ------- Hi again, Hmmmm ..., I don't know why I didn't notice this when I was trying openSuse 10.1, but what aumix is doing is obvious. aumix has a setting simply called "Digital1", and it controls SPDIF output. You don't need to hit mute, it just so happens that when you do aumix sets Digital1 so that SPDIF is enabled. SPDIF is enabled by setting Digital1 to the left position, and it is disabled by setting Digital1 to the right position. And as I suspected, there is no corresponding control in KMix. The "IEC958 Playback AC97-SPSA" controls, which most people expect to control SPDIF output, are not affected by the aumix Digital1 setting. I also couldn't find any other KMix controls that were changed by the Digital1 setting. It looks like something got lost in the translation somewhere. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 ------- Comment #2 from rmuncrief@comcast.net 2007-01-30 14:00 MST ------- I have found a further related problem with SPDIF. Even when you use aumix to enable SPDIF, it is continually turned off again when you insert a DVD, and as the DVD goes through various audio format changes. Once the DVD starts playing the main movie you have to set SPDIF via aumix again and it will remain set for the duration of the movie. So not only is the SPDIF output not controlled by your main mixer, KMix, but something in openSuse 10.2 is actually turning it off even when you know the aumix secret. This is really driving some people crazy (Google it) and driving them away in droves, when they really want to adopt Linux because Vista is such an expensive OS to own and maintain. I hope you can fix this and other multimedia problems because these types of multimedia problems seem to be the main reason that the average desktop user cannot adopt Linux. I'm an engineer with over two decades of experience developing computer hardware, firmware, and software (Solaris Unix and Windows) and I've never been able to adopt Linux, although as you can see I'm trying very, very hard. I will continue to try to help by filing bug reports that I think are most important to the average desktop user. The day I can use openSuse as my primary OS I will buy a copy, and donate another $50.00 to openSuse. I have already spent about $200.00 on VMWare workstation for Linux, so I sure hope you can get things working. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 tiwai@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |rmuncrief@comcast.net ------- Comment #3 from tiwai@novell.com 2007-02-02 07:22 MST ------- The SB450 has two different mechanisms to transfer ac97 signals, one is over a97 and another is over a dedicated SPDIF transmitter directly from the controller. This cannot be detected automatically, unfortunately, from the driver. So, first, you have to figure out which type is your hardware. Then pass a proper spdif_aclink module option value. If your hardware doesn't provide the information, the trial-and-error is the only possibility (or ask google as you like). When the SPDIF is over ac-link, the SPDIF and analog outputs are exclusive. OTOH, you can play the normal output both to analog and SPDIF. Meanwhile, the SPDIF and analog outputs are individual with the direct SPDIF connection, but the signal cannot be cloned on the hardware. Now, back to your problem: please describe what exactly you wanted and what didn't work as expected in details. I can't figure out wheter it's a kmix problem or anything else from your description in the above. Note that the main control element for SPDIF is "IEC958 Playback Switch". "IEC958 AC97 SPSA" controls the ac97 slot for SPDIF (which is an important control, too). These can be more easily controlled via alsamixer as kmix is known to be often buggy. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 rmuncrief@comcast.net changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |rmuncrief@comcast.net Status|NEEDINFO |NEW Info Provider|rmuncrief@comcast.net | ------- Comment #4 from rmuncrief@comcast.net 2007-02-02 13:12 MST ------- It seems you have completely forgotten what should be your goal, delivering a desktop OS alternative to Windows Vista that users can simply install and use. While I appreciate the technical info it is completely and utterly irrelevant to your users. You just gave me a very complicated explanation as to why openSuse doesn't work, and I already knew it didn't work. I don't care why. What I want, as a user, is for openSuse to work when I install it. That means, amongst many other things, when I go to the mixer that openSuse has installed and want to turn SPDIF on or off that I can easily do it. That's all I want to do. Turn SPDIF on when I want to listen to audio on my stereo, and turn it off when I want to listen to it on my computer speakers. A very simple thing for every OS except Linux. Look, it's very simple. If your mixer doesn't fully work or is "buggy", then don't install it. Either fix it, or install a mixer that does work. My goodness, the attitude your displaying is the reason why Linux has once again missed another golden opportunity to win users from Windows, and Microsoft threw this opportunity right on your lap. I don't know anyone who "wants" to move to Vista, but we have no alternative, and your answer is a perfect example of why. Users want to stick a DVD into their computer, install an OS, and have it work. But my goodness, listen to what you’re saying - in 2007 the default mixer installed by openSuse 10.2 doesn't work and you're not going to fix it, you're just going to explain its dysfunction. If alsamixer, or whatever, works then install it instead. But as you know, it doesn't fully work either. In fact as I remember it was even worse than KMix, which is probably why you went with KMix. Or it could have been an arbitrary decision to put something in that you known doesn't work in place of something that you know does work, but that wouldn't make any sense, would it? I really don't know anymore when it comes to Linux. Sheesh people. You're losing your shorts and there's absolutely no reason for it. You know people need to turn SPDIF on and off. You know they need dual display output capabilities. You know people need to forward and rewind internet multimedia. Don't respond to their bug reports with reasons why these normal everyday things don't work under Linux, respond to them by fixing the silly things. Only a very few, such as myself, even have the ability to understand the explanation you gave. And in the end it was to install one buggy partially functioning mixer for another that is equally incomplete. So finally and succinctly, this is what I want as far as this bug is concerned. I want to install openSuse and be able to control the mixer audio functions from the mixer that's installed. Period. It couldn't be a simpler, more direct, and in 2007 more old fashioned, request. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 tiwai@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |rmuncrief@comcast.net ------- Comment #5 from tiwai@novell.com 2007-02-05 03:33 MST ------- You didn't answer my request at all. Please describe simply what you tried, and what didn't work as expected, step by step. Rant doesn't help anything. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 rmuncrief@comcast.net changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW Info Provider|rmuncrief@comcast.net | ------- Comment #6 from rmuncrief@comcast.net 2007-02-06 14:06 MST ------- What? You still haven't figured out that I wanted to control SPDIF from KMix, or whatever mixer openSuse installed by default?. Wow. OK, I give up. Your comments and the comments of other developers led me to go out and plunk down $280.00 for a Windows Vista Ultimate upgrade this morning. You and your colleagues will no longer be receiving bug reports, complaints, or suggestions from this old engineer, as it seems is your wish. openSuse developers indeed have a "shoot the messenger" attitude, no matter how helpful the messenger or message is, and have a code word for any legitimate complaint - just a "rant" to be ignored. Well, you've succeeded. This messenger has been fatally wounded, as I'm sure have many others who have tried to help you. Good luck. And keep insulting anyone who tries to help you. Because of the development communities attitude and inability to organize and pursue rational goals, I'm sure Linux will be just as it is today ten years from now, ten years behind the times. It could have been different if, as a group, you had learned to listen. Please close this bug and continue to live in your fantasy world where everything in Linux is just fine, with the only problem being ignorant complaining users who want it to perform everyday desktop OS functions. It's OK with us because we just went out and bought Vista, which while expensive, actually works. And by the way, take a look at bug 237164 and look at how hard and long I was willing to work to help all of you. And what did I get for all that effort and time? A kick in the face. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 tiwai@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |rmuncrief@comcast.net ------- Comment #7 from tiwai@novell.com 2007-02-07 03:43 MST ------- Two words "control SPDIF" don't explain much. It tells you nothing but that "I have SPDIF I/O jack (or maybe jacks)." There are more facts to know. For example, did you want to send analog signals over SPDIF, or digital signals (AC3 or DTS), or analog recording over SPDIF, or SPDIF to SPDIF loopback, or anything else? Which application did you use to play / record? How was it configured? And, what worked and what not? Is it a usability problem, or a driver bug, or an application bug? Two words are too short to explain these all. Please stop ranting but just tell the technical facts concisely. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 rmuncrief@comcast.net changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW Info Provider|rmuncrief@comcast.net | ------- Comment #8 from rmuncrief@comcast.net 2007-02-07 04:18 MST ------- Close this bug. One of your developers with the address of pavel@novell.com just threatened to hang me from the nearest tree. All I wanted was to use your OS and perhaps help you with some of its problems. Instead I am harrassed and threatened with death. I have erased openSuse from my system and will never, ever, attempt to use any Linux OS again. I am reporting the threat by pavel@novell.com to Novell and the proper legal authorities, and will do everything I can to make sure none of you ever again threaten peoples lives simply for being honest and telling the truth. You people are unbelievable. Just unbelievable. And dangerous. Threatening someone with bodily harm because they complain about your OS? Wow. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240102 tiwai@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX ------- Comment #9 from tiwai@novell.com 2007-02-07 05:21 MST ------- As you wish... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
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