[Bug 539004] New: SaX2 does not show up in YaST2-control center.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 Summary: SaX2 does not show up in YaST2-control center. Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 11.2 Version: Milestone 7 Platform: x86-64 OS/Version: SuSE Other Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: SaX2 AssignedTo: bnc-team-xorg-bugs@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: estellnb@gmail.com QAContact: sax2-maintainer-bugs@forge.provo.novell.com Found By: --- User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/4.3; Linux) KHTML/4.3.1 (like Gecko) SUSE SaX2 does not show up in the YaST2-control center any more. However SaX2 is indispensable for Xinerama configuration (see Bug 537676) and many other issues like setting the screen size to get an appropriate font scaling for the deskop. Reproducible: Always -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User sndirsch@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c1 Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED CC| |sndirsch@novell.com Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #1 from Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> 2009-09-14 09:33:00 MDT --- SaX2 has been removed from YaST control center by intention. It should only be used as last resort. We saw so many issues on SLE11/11.1 due to users still relying on SaX2. :-( We want to get rid of them (I mean the issues, not the users)! -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c2 --- Comment #2 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-14 13:47:00 MDT --- If people start to report bugs for a component then it means that they like it and that they are using it. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c3 Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #3 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-14 14:10:25 MDT --- Never give SaX2 up! If you won`t support SaX2 any more then you are going to get rid of users like me (Bug 535075). -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User sndirsch@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c4 --- Comment #4 from Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> 2009-09-14 15:15:48 MDT --- SaX2 is still available, but we no longer want that everybody is still using it (although no longer required in 99.9% of all cases) and thus breaking easily the working automatic X configuration unnecessarily. I hope you can accept this. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User sndirsch@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c5 Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #5 from Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> 2009-09-14 15:17:59 MDT --- Resolving again. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c6 --- Comment #6 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-15 02:59:25 MDT --- The decision to drop elaborate xorg.confs and SaX2 with them is simply fatal. see: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23927#c6 for more reasoning. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c7 --- Comment #7 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-15 06:53:21 MDT --- Most of these issues will have been related to the unstable xorg-radeonhd, not to SaX (like at bug 539008) or perhaps also to the oss-nuveau driver. No reason to drop SaX!! -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c8 Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|INVALID | --- Comment #8 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-15 06:56:02 MDT --- . -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c9 --- Comment #9 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-15 07:08:29 MDT --- Created an attachment (id=318308) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=318308) y2logs.tgz - full YaST2 logs -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User sndirsch@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c10 Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team-xorg-bugs@forge.pr |uwedr@novell.com |ovo.novell.com | --- Comment #10 from Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> 2009-09-15 08:22:39 MDT --- Need to give up at this point and reassign to my manager. :-( Uwe, please try to convince the reporter, that this decision is well considered and the only choice we have for the future. Trying any longer to work with static configurations with X.Org is becoming simply pain and we see not benefits for users and us developers to continue this. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|sndirsch@novell.com | QAContact|sax2-maintainer-bugs@forge. |qa@suse.de |provo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c11 --- Comment #11 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-15 13:52:00 MDT --- Xorg.confs contain a lot of useful information which will not be supplied by any plug and play mechanism (screen size, xinerama layout, ...). Besides this we may wanna have a rescue-fallback to a static pre-configuration if the p&p mechanism does not work (as here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23927). I personally don`t understand the decision to drop support for xorg.confs. Will it be that hard to keep a little legacy code in the project? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User sndirsch@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c12 Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |sndirsch@novell.com --- Comment #12 from Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> 2009-09-15 14:47:27 MDT --- Again. SaX2 has *not* been dropped (it's even still installed by default; just removed from the YaST menu). Still the Xserver reads xorg.conf - if available - as before. Use SaX2 if you want or think still need it and it's useful for you. We plan to add a paragraph to the release notes, that SaX/xorg.conf isn't used any longer by default. There are several reasons to no longer rely on a static X configuration. In short, you want to support "hotplug" for input devices (like mouse/keyboard/tablet) and output devices (like monitors). You really don't want to run sax2 before connecting your laptop to your docking station. It should just work - at least right after an Xserver start. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c13 --- Comment #13 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-16 02:22:53 MDT --- The newly added plug and play capability will be a good thing. It also means that we may want to drop a lot of unnecessary things by default from xorg.conf. Nonetheless I just have the use case of docking my notebook to my docking station in mind if I fear to lose the power of current xorg-configurability. We should at least keep three things in xorg.conf: * which monitor should become the primary which the secondary * what will be the respective screen sizes * which xinerama-orientation (right/left/...) if not clone mode is to be used The issue I have created upstreams in this regard is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18592, 'apply settings of xorg.conf even if monitor enabled with hindsight'. That means if I start my notebook and dock afterwards the result should be the same as if I start docked. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User sndirsch@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c14 --- Comment #14 from Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> 2009-09-16 04:11:07 MDT --- (In reply to comment #13)
The newly added plug and play capability will be a good thing. It also means that we may want to drop a lot of unnecessary things by default from xorg.conf. Nonetheless I just have the use case of docking my notebook to my docking station in mind if I fear to lose the power of current xorg-configurability.
I do not understand, what you want to tell me here.
We should at least keep three things in xorg.conf: * which monitor should become the primary which the secondary * what will be the respective screen sizes * which xinerama-orientation (right/left/...) if not clone mode is to be used
This information is already saved by the desktop, i.e. KDE/Gnome. Not sure about xfce. For other window managers add the appropriate xrandr call to your ~/.xinitrc. It definitely makes sense to have clone mode as default for displaymanager login (xdm, kdm, gdm) to make sure you can login, not matter whether the internal, the external display or both displays are connected.
The issue I have created upstreams in this regard is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18592, 'apply settings of xorg.conf even if monitor enabled with hindsight'.
That means if I start my notebook and dock afterwards the result should be the same as if I start docked.
Makes no sense to me. The RANDR 1.2 tools like krandrtray/gnome-display-properties/xrandr are your friends if you want to change display configuration on-the-fly. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c15 --- Comment #15 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-16 04:24:33 MDT --- Definitely useful. Docking and undocking the notebook in the same place as before may happen multiple times a day. I wanna have the configuration applied automatically. No entry in .xinitrc can perform this task. Applying a xinerama configuration should remain the task of the video driver. A user may switch between different desktops without having to reconfiger the same for every desktop. Besides this the screen size and the primary screen are things you currently can not change with xrandr. I wonder when the additional capabilities should be implemented for Gnome & KDE4. Their xinerama handling has up to now been very buggy while things were just handeled fine by the radeonhd driver up to now. I do not see any sense in dropping a functionality which will then have to be reimplemented and tested multiple times in other environments, especially as this won`t take place since there are so many other issues about the KDE4 desktop. Besides this the functionality will never be available for alternative desktops like Xfce, Kde3 & co. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User sndirsch@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c16 Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|sndirsch@novell.com | --- Comment #16 from Stefan Dirsch <sndirsch@novell.com> 2009-09-16 06:38:53 MDT --- I no longer want to waste my time on this one. Unfortunately there are always persons, who only accept their own opinion. :-( -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User estellnb@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c17 --- Comment #17 from Elmar Stellnberger ATK <estellnb@gmail.com> 2009-09-16 06:56:58 MDT --- It probably does not make sense to discuss with persons who solely think of their own preconceptions or what they have been told by their management; and with people who are not open to arguments. Fortunately I have rescued the x86_64 packages of the last xinerama-aware build of radeonhd. People who are interested in this may have a look at http://suse.elstel.com/radeonhd. Otherwise fglrx will be my choice for the future. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User albert.passalacqua@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c18 Alberto Passalacqua <albert.passalacqua@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |albert.passalacqua@gmail.co | |m --- Comment #18 from Alberto Passalacqua <albert.passalacqua@gmail.com> 2009-09-16 09:36:36 MDT --- We are at it again: another rushed decision when a transition is done. Why don't you leave SaX in YaST too, and let the users decide if they want to use it or not, while the new X functionalities are introduced for the first time? If X does the job, users won't look for SaX, and if it doesn't they'll have it handy. Best, Alberto -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User uwedr@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c19 Uwe Drechsel <uwedr@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |CLOSED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #19 from Uwe Drechsel <uwedr@novell.com> 2009-09-17 13:27:30 CEST --- Again: sax2 is not dropped, its functionality is still available. Having it easily available in YaST just caused more problems than it solved, that's why it has been removed there. Causing problems means a support load which distracts the engineers from fixing real bugs and adding new features to openSUSE and our enterprise products. Feel free to call sax2 directly if you need it, it will stay around for the whole maintenance cycle. Please let's finish this discussion here, thanks. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User albert.passalacqua@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c20 --- Comment #20 from Alberto Passalacqua <albert.passalacqua@gmail.com> 2009-09-17 07:04:55 MDT --- Since there is *no* formal support for openSUSE this motivation is not exactly valid. However, we take not of another one-sided decision. Bye. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User binner@kde.org added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c21 Stephan Binner <binner@kde.org> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |tvrtko@ursulin.net --- Comment #21 from Stephan Binner <binner@kde.org> 2009-09-30 12:37:13 MDT --- *** Bug 542472 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=542472 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User tvrtko@ursulin.net added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c22 --- Comment #22 from Tvrtko Ursulin <tvrtko@ursulin.net> 2009-09-30 15:46:21 MDT --- (In reply to comment #19)
Again: sax2 is not dropped, its functionality is still available.
Having it easily available in YaST just caused more problems than it solved, that's why it has been removed there. Causing problems means a support load which distracts the engineers from fixing real bugs and adding new features to openSUSE and our enterprise products.
Feel free to call sax2 directly if you need it, it will stay around for the whole maintenance cycle.
What do you mean by this, that it is completely going away in 11.3 or 12, whatever will it be named? I think it would be a pitty to completely remove it. What to do when you have a monitor which has no DDC info or gives incorrect DDC info? How will runtime automatic configuration deal with that? -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User bart.otten85@gmail.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c23 Bart Otten <bart.otten85@gmail.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |urwald@gmx-topmail.de --- Comment #23 from Bart Otten <bart.otten85@gmail.com> 2009-10-01 08:02:29 MDT --- *** Bug 538891 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538891 -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User korossy.p@freemail.hu added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c24 Paul Korossy <korossy.p@freemail.hu> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |korossy.p@freemail.hu --- Comment #24 from Paul Korossy <korossy.p@freemail.hu> 2009-10-01 09:39:48 MDT --- I agree with the reporter, removing Sax2 from Yast isn't a good idea. Up to now neither of the OpenSUSE distributions I installed (including 11.2 MS-8) was able to recognize and setup the screen resolution for my graphics card and monitor properly, I always had to correct it with Sax2 manually. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004 User eich@novell.com added comment http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539004#c25 Egbert Eich <eich@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |eich@novell.com --- Comment #25 from Egbert Eich <eich@novell.com> 2009-10-06 07:09:27 MDT --- Auto-configuration has existed in the Xserver for quite a while however until very recently it has not been usable. Important elements had been missing to adjust settings (like the screen resolution) after the server has been started. Thus a configuration file was mandatory. To provide an easy way for the user to configure X SUSE and Novell invested in the development and maintenance of SaX2. Many things have changed in upstream X or are about to change which would require considerable work to keep SaX2 in sync. Thus maintenance of SaX2 would require an amount of manpower which cannot be provided by the X Team at Novell today. With both things in mind Novell has made the decision to no longer invest in SaX2 but to obsolete it instead. This is a business decision and this bugzilla is certainly the wrong place to argue against it. But lets look at this from another angle: SaX2 is free software! All it's source code is openly available. Therefore if Novell is no longer interested in funding its maintenance it's still possible for anybody interested to pick up this task. This is what openSUSE (in contrast to the Novell enterprise Linux products) is all about: it's a platform for development open to everybody. There is no piece of software in openSUSE which is considered 'owned by Novell'. Anything in there is there to be picked up by a community around it and to be taken anywhere this community decides to take it - regardless of whatever business needs is driving Novell's decisions. Thus if anyone is interested in maintaining SaX2, please feel free!! A good place to start a discussion would be the opensuse-xorg@opensuse.org mailing list :) -- Configure bugmail: http://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
participants (1)
-
bugzilla_noreply＠novell.com