[Bug 656023] New: Remove Illogical Auto Change of Dictionary Selection to Match Keyboard Selection - Installation Page 1
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c0 Summary: Remove Illogical Auto Change of Dictionary Selection to Match Keyboard Selection - Installation Page 1 Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE 11.4 Version: Factory Platform: All OS/Version: SuSE Other Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: Installation AssignedTo: bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: scott@aphofis.com QAContact: jsrain@novell.com Found By: --- Blocker: --- User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101026 SUSE/3.6.12-0.7.1 Firefox/3.6.12 The very first page of the Installation program requires the selection of both Dictionary Language and Keyboard Type. Currently if you change the Dictionary language from the default US to UK; the keyboard type will also change to match this. Except for the U.K itself, every other Commonwealth Country on the earth will use a UK Dictionary BUT uses a US Keyboard. When an installation is completed using the correct language but the incorrect Keyboard; the system is rendered almost unusable as so many special characters of a UK Keyboard, including the numeric keypad render the Operation of the system almost useless. This is where people like me have to try and explain what crazy logic is being applied by the Installation of their new system and why it cannot be used; that’s if they haven’t already formatted the drive and O/S back to NTFS. There is NO logic in auto changing the Dictionary language to be the same as the keyboard selection and this auto-change should be removed from the Installation program as soon as possible Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1.Perform an install on a PC with a US Keyboard but using a UK Keyboard Setting! 2. 3. Actual Results: If the physical keyboard type does not match the one selected during installation, it will require manual change after booting OR if not changed render the total application most useless Expected Results: The current equation of Language against Keyboard has no logic and only causes very irate or people dumping their first attempt using Suse Linux. An installation that has an incorrect logical keyboard type installed that does not match the physical keyboard is next to useless as there are a vast amount of keys that will perform totally differently. - This problem was reported in OpenSuse 10.1/10.3/11.1 - Please restore my faith in recognising the complete lack of logic in the way we link both language and keyboard fields together Andreas Jaeger - Please give me just a little faith back in the project.... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c wei wang <wewang@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |wewang@novell.com AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |kernel-maintainers@forge.pr |ovo.novell.com |ovo.novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c wei wang <wewang@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |yast2-maintainers@suse.de |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c3 Lukas Ocilka <locilka@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|locilka@novell.com |jsuchome@novell.com --- Comment #3 from Lukas Ocilka <locilka@novell.com> 2010-11-29 14:07:21 UTC --- Jiri, do you want to play with changing/not changing keyboard considering who and how uses the computer? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c4 --- Comment #4 from Jiří Suchomel <jsuchome@novell.com> 2010-11-29 14:29:49 UTC --- (In reply to comment #0)
There is NO logic in auto changing the Dictionary language to be the same as the keyboard selection and this auto-change should be removed from the Installation program as soon as possible
There is the logic: most US users use US keyboard, while UK users use UK one. Non-english speaking users also often (I guess mostly) use the keyboard based on their language. Of course, there are situations that cannot be determined automatically, like yours. So you have to choose the keyboard layout manually and you can do it just by clicking once in the initial screen. Your proposal to remove the automatic keyboard (pre-)selection would force _all_ users to select the keyboard layout manually. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c6 Andreas Jaeger <aj@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |aj@novell.com InfoProvider|aj@novell.com |scott@aphofis.com --- Comment #6 from Andreas Jaeger <aj@novell.com> 2010-11-29 20:05:32 UTC --- Scott, the algorithm works fine for the majority of users and makes them happy, so I understand that Jiri is very reluctant to change anything. What do you propose exactly as algorithm to handle the situation? How are other popular distributions and OSes handling this? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c7 Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW CC| |scott@aphofis.com InfoProvider|scott@aphofis.com | --- Comment #7 from Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> 2010-11-30 00:15:02 UTC --- This logic does not work for any Commonwealth Country in the World outside of England - To mention Canada and Australia as both an example -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c8 Jiří Suchomel <jsuchome@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO InfoProvider| |scott@aphofis.com --- Comment #8 from Jiří Suchomel <jsuchome@novell.com> 2010-11-30 07:22:05 UTC --- (In reply to comment #7)
This logic does not work for any Commonwealth Country in the World outside of England - To mention Canada and Australia as both an example
Yes, this was already stated several times and we know it. Do you propose to make the situation the same for every other country? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c9 --- Comment #9 from Andreas Jaeger <aj@novell.com> 2010-11-30 09:27:00 UTC --- I just started an installation. Scott, let's use the words that are used in the installation to not confuse others. The installation uses "Language" and you speak about "Dictionary Selection". Let's ask on the opensuse-factory mailing list about this behaviour and whether anybody has a good idea. I'll ask there now. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c10 Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW InfoProvider|scott@aphofis.com | --- Comment #10 from Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> 2010-11-30 09:31:37 UTC --- No- Not at all - There needs no other modification for any other country - This logic only effects English Speaking Countries of the world outside the US and UK Outside the US a UK dictionary is the only acceptable English Language variant that a market will accept BUT the snag is that the UK Keybord calls are NOT - As just about all countries, except the UK, have adopted a standard of a US keyboard. This was based on the historical deployment to the world of an IBM PS2 where we saw the first 101 Enhanced Keyboard(US) where the only country to use a different keyboard was the UK. Outside the US, NO English speaking country will accept a US dictionary. If this language and keyboard selection is not correct in the first instance the whole resulting O/S is unusable. The test is an easy one. - Plug a UK Keyboard into any US Keyboard Installation and boot. Gentleman, This is not rocket Science - All I am advocating here is to remove the linked Language Module to be equal to the Keyboard type. By all means retain the default US Keyboard, but let the rest of the English speaking countries outside the US a functionally acceptable dictionary. If this change is not part of the Market Penetration of Linux - Please feel free to dismiss all the countries where this 'logic' does not work, and close this bug as wontfix - I am astounded at the need for clarification or justification of this very small but highly consequential 'Logic"? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c11 --- Comment #11 from Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> 2010-11-30 09:41:00 UTC --- At last glance there are 3 Open Suse Members registered in Australia and in an industry where I work being full of I.T people - No One yet No One in the last 5 years has ever hard of the Linux O/S let alone OpenSuse and I have not come across an Enterprise Suse Linux Server and Client ever!! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c12 Jiří Suchomel <jsuchome@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |FEATURE --- Comment #12 from Jiří Suchomel <jsuchome@novell.com> 2010-12-03 14:22:57 UTC --- This is currently discussed on factory mailing list and the result will be applied. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c13 Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Resolution|FEATURE |WONTFIX --- Comment #13 from Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> 2010-12-06 03:11:58 UTC --- So the request to turn a completely usable Installation comes down to a feature. Its not hard to do a basic installation of US keyboard, onto a system that has a UK Keyboard, to render the installation unmanageable and unstable. Status Changed for the above reasons and logic -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c14 --- Comment #14 from Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> 2011-07-25 03:51:13 UTC --- My Apologies for using Dictionary and not language but as you are aware this selection governs ALL default spell checks that are system wide outside of OOO. You can understand that I should go to bat for my own country, where an Installation selecting a UK Language would result in a totally unusable installation as the Keyboard calls would mostly all stuff up resulting in the new user reformatting the HDD and going elsewhere for an O/S as this installation would fail dismally. This problem can be completely solved by including a .AU Language - Yes there is a specific Language type its easy to find from Mozilla. This done you can create a .AU Keyboard type, which is a US Enhanced 101. We should than add a .NZ and all the other Language derivations + a .NZ Keyboard which is a US Enhanced 101. The list would go on for all the other English Commonwealth Countries - Canada- African Countries etc. up to about 65 or so. I will leave this issue as closed as wontfix and asking the membership of what they think only reached Countries where there is suse penetration - Without Prejudice - please add a clear comment for the wonfix action or change to ? - This is an acceptable part of development I understand, but selling my Country and so many others would be a travesty -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c15 --- Comment #15 from Jiří Suchomel <jsuchome@novell.com> 2011-07-25 06:54:38 UTC --- *** Bug 687439 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=687439 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=656023#c16 --- Comment #16 from Scott Couston <scott@aphofis.com> 2011-08-05 22:55:09 UTC --- You always retain the authority to decide a wontfix, and this is perfectly acceptable path in development. I would just like to leave a closing comment. In .AU there is NOTHING more offensive to us that an English -US Language module be installed on a PC. The Language Module dictates the global spell checker and other things. For example if a company or a home uses paid for both many units and a single unit; the company would sent every unit back as unacceptable and a home user would take the PC back or call for support to make the change. I acknowledge that there are other opportunities to install an Australian-English Language Module in FF and Thunderbird and OOO, or in its absence a UK-English Module. Fundamentally if a installer were not aware that that after selecting a UK_English Language setting at Installation and not noticing that the Keyboard would be also changed; the net result would be a completely useless PC as there are huge discrepancies in a UK Keyboard to that if the Australian standard which is a US-Enhanced 101 (IBM Terminology. Having a new installation be immediately unusable, and often for the first time with Suse, cements markets with Microsoft and seemingly does NOT even offer an alternate. Again, I just want to close by saying that in Australia a Company or Home market would find the use of a English-US Language module to be offensive as there are huge, enormous and monumental differences and if totally offensive to our Market. I dont waste any of your/my time submitting bugs without huge compelling reasons. - No contest at close as WONTFIX -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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