[Bug 646418] New: text too small for high DPI users and users lacking excellent vision
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c0 Summary: text too small for high DPI users and users lacking excellent vision Classification: openSUSE Product: openSUSE.org Version: unspecified Platform: All OS/Version: All Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: Software Portal AssignedTo: benji@opensuse.org ReportedBy: mrmazda@earthlink.net QAContact: opensuse-communityscreening@forge.provo.novell.com CC: jstutz@novell.com, nwagstaff@novell.com, aj@novell.com Found By: Other Blocker: --- Created an attachment (id=394835) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=394835) draft user stylesheet for opensuse.org +++ This bug was initially created as a clone of Bug #203468 +++ This is actually an accessibility as well as a usability issue: opensuse.org is generally difficult to impossible use as currently styled at high DPI and/or high resolution settings without using a browser's zoom or minimum size functions. Web page text should never be sized in px. Most web page text should be left at the user's default size so that he can read it without doing anything more than arriving there. All pages I have recently sampled now have text sized at 12px or 13px, making it about 7pt or smaller on high resolution displays. User default sizes are just right. Ignoring them entirely as is now done is horribly rude. User defaults should be left to operate by styling from a 100% of default base, with all sizing limited to context as smaller or larger may be appropriate for specific elements, such as headers, footers, parentheticals, superscripts, etc. http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24695 describes the exact same problem, so the screenshot attached there should suffice here. URLs futher describing what's involved on the subject: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/designmistakes.html http://www.w3.org/2003/07/30-font-size http://css.nu/articles/font-analogy.html http://www.wilsonminer.com/posts/2008/oct/20/relative-readability/ http://bureau.tsailly.net/2010/10/honey-i-shrunk-the-pixels.html http://www.informationarchitects.jp/100e2r?v=4 http://tobyinkster.co.uk/article/web-fonts/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao/ http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/bigdefaults.html http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/accessibility.html I use Novell's web sites so often that I employ user styles specifically for those base URLs I need most often in my main browser. Yesterday I realized I needed to spend considerable time to update those styles after a visit to http://forums.opensuse.org/english/ . The result's current state is attached. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c Thomas Schmidt <tschmidt@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |tschmidt@novell.com Component|Software Portal |Infrastructure AssignedTo|benji@opensuse.org |mrueckert@novell.com QAContact|opensuse-communityscreening |lrupp@novell.com |@forge.provo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c Thomas Schmidt <tschmidt@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|mrueckert@novell.com |rlihm@novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c1 Robert Lihm <rlihm@novell.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO InfoProvider| |mrmazda@earthlink.net --- Comment #1 from Robert Lihm <rlihm@novell.com> 2010-12-10 09:23:10 UTC --- I switched the basic font-size to 1em (for <body>). Do you still have problems? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c2 --- Comment #2 from Thomas Schmidt <tschmidt@novell.com> 2010-12-10 14:47:50 CET --- Please also check the font sizes on features.opensuse.org. We might want to use them as defaults. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c3 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |NEW InfoProvider|mrmazda@earthlink.net | --- Comment #3 from Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> 2010-12-11 02:17:20 UTC --- Created an attachment (id=404446) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=404446) contextual features.opensuse.org screenshot @133 DPI It's better than http://suseware.com/bento/, but nothing close to good. I tried also to make a similarly contextual screenshot of http://en.opensuse.org/ or https://en.opensuse.org/ but either way get: 403 Forbidden # legible This site does not support HTTPS. Please try again using HTTP. #illegible Being much busier than http://features.opensuse.org/, http://en.opensuse.org/ (aka http://en.opensuse.org/Main_Page) is as a practical matter worse, with much too long lines of tiny text and far more illegible links. It never ceases to amaze me that so many web stylists think it OK to size most page text smaller than browser UI text, as is demonstrated here, when, being less familiar to visitors, it ought to be larger. Rude it remains, compounded by contrast designed for people using improperly adjusted (overbright/overcontrasty as delivered by the factories for maximum impression in brightly lit retail stores) displays. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c4 --- Comment #4 from Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> 2011-10-07 01:11:11 UTC --- Created an attachment (id=454975) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=454975) contextual screenshot of a forums page with no user defenses employed Note that the forum page's dominant text size is a tiny fraction of the UA's UI text, and a tinier fraction of the UA default size. The actual legibility is further reduced by the low contrast between the gray text and white background. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c5 --- Comment #5 from Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> 2011-10-07 01:12:04 UTC --- Created an attachment (id=454976) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=454976) screenshot of same opensuse forum page with both site-specific and generic user styles applied The mess exhibited here is a consequence of application of site specific user styles applied in an attempt to combat the rude (tiny and low contrast text) site styling. User styles are virtually impossible to employ on sites such as this that burden the content with 150k or more of CSS. As a practical matter that much CSS is much too complicated to counteract, if not to maintain. Minimum text size and zoom do a better job for people who only need defenses occasionally, but aren't very friendly when both initial and recurring visits to many site pages are necessary. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c6 --- Comment #6 from Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> 2011-10-07 08:23:33 UTC --- Created an attachment (id=455005) --> (http://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=455005) user styles to reproduce attachment 454976's viewport area exactly: 1-open a 120 DPI desktop 2-unpack the content of this attachment into a Gecko profile's chrome directory 3-open the Gecko 3-set the Gecko's default font size to 20 4-set the Gecko's monospace font size to 18 5-open http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/install-boot-logi... Attachment 454976 was made using SeaMonkey 2.3.3 (rv6.0.2 Gecko) on OS/2, but I reproduced it easily with Firefox 7.0.1 (rv7.0.1 Gecko) in KDE3 on openSUSE 11.2. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c Sascha Peilicke <speilicke@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|speilicke@suse.com |mrueckert@suse.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c Marcus Rückert <mrueckert@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|mrueckert@suse.com |hvogel@suse.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c Hendrik Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.com> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|hvogel@suse.com |abebe@suse.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=646418#c9 --- Comment #9 from Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> 2014-05-28 17:20:35 EDT --- Update of last two links in comment 0: http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/bigdefaults.html http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/accessibility.html -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.
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