Hello All, I would like to share some impressions and thoughts with you about the ongoing bento-theme implementation to opensuse.org. When we decided to create a new look & feel for opensuse.org (aka Umbrella Projekt), I was very happy because this time I saw the chance to avoid the mistakes we did when setting up the current theme. My plan was to first make a draft along with some mock-ups for the different web applications and to discuss this draft. Next I planned to assemble a list of requirements and resources the different web applications use in order to be able to create a real "umbrella" for all apps. Finally I wanted to set up a central server, serving all common images, css and js files and providing a master template and a style guide for all web applications. Unfortunately the whole project went in a totally different direction, with people implementing an unfinished draft version on several web applications. The "Head first Design"-vison ist gone now. This is kind of a deja vu for me, because this is very similar to what happened when implementing the current theme. In part this may be my fault, because I did not say "DON'T TOUCH IT, it's still fluid!" at the right moment. From my point of view we are on track of missing the goal of the umbrella project. Instead of generating a unique theme that can be used on all our web applications we are currently creating a number of totally independent themes that have (more or less) a similar look. Status Quo is, that the Bento-Theme, especially HTML/CSS/JS/Graphics, is still unfinished. The following is still work in progress: * CSS classes and ids need to be properly defined * CSS, JS and graphics need to be organised in a way that every web application can use them from a single source (static.o.o) * we still need to figure out how to handle 3rd party application specific CSS (e.g. from the wiki and WordPress) * we need to find a way to consolidate the CSS/JS used in the web apps we develop on our own * JS needs to be object oriented so it can be used with all applications I'm afraid that we make the same mistakes we made with the current opensuse.org theme and endup with a big, not maintainable, patchwork- monster-theme. Thank you for your attention. Best, Robert PS: Just for the protocol: That we have our sources in two different systems (git/svn) makes me unhappy. --- Robert Lihm, Webdesigner - openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0 - rlihm@suse.de ____________________________________________________________ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ____________________________________________________________ SUSE - a Novell business -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
On 03/04/2010 03:21 PM, Robert Lihm wrote:
Hello All,
I would like to share some impressions and thoughts with you about the ongoing bento-theme implementation to opensuse.org.
When we decided to create a new look & feel for opensuse.org (aka Umbrella Projekt), I was very happy because this time I saw the chance to avoid the mistakes we did when setting up the current theme.
My plan was to first make a draft along with some mock-ups for the different web applications and to discuss this draft. Next I planned to assemble a list of requirements and resources the different web applications use in order to be able to create a real "umbrella" for all apps. Finally I wanted to set up a central server, serving all common images, css and js files and providing a master template and a style guide for all web applications.
Unfortunately the whole project went in a totally different direction, with people implementing an unfinished draft version on several web applications. The "Head first Design"-vison ist gone now.
This is kind of a deja vu for me, because this is very similar to what happened when implementing the current theme. In part this may be my fault, because I did not say "DON'T TOUCH IT, it's still fluid!" at the right moment.
From my point of view we are on track of missing the goal of the umbrella project. Instead of generating a unique theme that can be used on all our web applications we are currently creating a number of totally independent themes that have (more or less) a similar look.
I don't think we are doing this. All webapps use a git submodule that points to the gitorious webdesign project where your work is hosted. That means this is the only source of bento design files, and all apps automatically are using it as soon as something is committed there. I think it's good that we already have _testing_ installations of various apps with bento design online (wikistage, software, build) so we can get feedback and finish the design. When we are ready for production we can think about using branches in the webdesign repo, and switch the applications to use the files from a bento checkout on static.o.o.
Status Quo is, that the Bento-Theme, especially HTML/CSS/JS/Graphics, is still unfinished. The following is still work in progress:
* CSS classes and ids need to be properly defined * CSS, JS and graphics need to be organised in a way that every web application can use them from a single source (static.o.o) * we still need to figure out how to handle 3rd party application specific CSS (e.g. from the wiki and WordPress)
Currently we are doing this for the wiki with the css_local folder which is also fetched from the gitorious webdesign project.
* we need to find a way to consolidate the CSS/JS used in the web apps we develop on our own
When there are things in common they should get merged and put in the webdesign project.
* JS needs to be object oriented so it can be used with all applications
I'm afraid that we make the same mistakes we made with the current opensuse.org theme and endup with a big, not maintainable, patchwork-monster-theme.
Thank you for your attention.
Best,
Robert
PS: Just for the protocol: That we have our sources in two different systems (git/svn) makes me unhappy.
It is very unfortunate for example for the wiki deployment, but where does it annoy you? Greetings -- Thomas Schmidt (tschmidt [at] suse.de) SUSE Linux Products GmbH :: Research & Development :: Tools 144 pixels ought to be enough for anybody, www.blinkenlights.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
On 04.03.2010, at 16:47, Thomas Schmidt wrote:
On 03/04/2010 03:21 PM, Robert Lihm wrote:
Hello All,
I would like to share some impressions and thoughts with you about the ongoing bento-theme implementation to opensuse.org.
When we decided to create a new look & feel for opensuse.org (aka Umbrella Projekt), I was very happy because this time I saw the chance to avoid the mistakes we did when setting up the current theme.
My plan was to first make a draft along with some mock-ups for the different web applications and to discuss this draft. Next I planned to assemble a list of requirements and resources the different web applications use in order to be able to create a real "umbrella" for all apps. Finally I wanted to set up a central server, serving all common images, css and js files and providing a master template and a style guide for all web applications.
Unfortunately the whole project went in a totally different direction, with people implementing an unfinished draft version on several web applications. The "Head first Design"-vison ist gone now.
This is kind of a deja vu for me, because this is very similar to what happened when implementing the current theme. In part this may be my fault, because I did not say "DON'T TOUCH IT, it's still fluid!" at the right moment.
From my point of view we are on track of missing the goal of the umbrella project. Instead of generating a unique theme that can be used on all our web applications we are currently creating a number of totally independent themes that have (more or less) a similar look.
I don't think we are doing this. All webapps use a git submodule that points to the gitorious webdesign project where your work is hosted. That means this is the only source of bento design files, and all apps automatically are using it as soon as something is committed there. I think it's good that we already have _testing_ installations of various apps with bento design online (wikistage, software, build) so we can get feedback and finish the design.
When we are ready for production we can think about using branches in the webdesign repo, and switch the applications to use the files from a bento checkout on static.o.o.
Status Quo is, that the Bento-Theme, especially HTML/CSS/JS/ Graphics, is still unfinished. The following is still work in progress:
* CSS classes and ids need to be properly defined * CSS, JS and graphics need to be organised in a way that every web application can use them from a single source (static.o.o) * we still need to figure out how to handle 3rd party application specific CSS (e.g. from the wiki and WordPress)
Currently we are doing this for the wiki with the css_local folder which is also fetched from the gitorious webdesign project.
My main problem is, that the CSS-base was not ready-tro-go. And If I change something, it has impact on other peoples work. So we are going to do thing multiple times.'
* we need to find a way to consolidate the CSS/JS used in the web apps we develop on our own
When there are things in common they should get merged and put in the webdesign project.
Aye.
* JS needs to be object oriented so it can be used with all applications
I'm afraid that we make the same mistakes we made with the current opensuse.org theme and endup with a big, not maintainable, patchwork-monster-theme.
Thank you for your attention.
Best,
Robert
PS: Just for the protocol: That we have our sources in two different systems (git/svn) makes me unhappy.
It is very unfortunate for example for the wiki deployment, but where does it annoy you?
It just makes thinks complicated and it brings no benefit. It's like an additional stone on my way. So, it makes me unhappy :-) R
Greetings
-- Thomas Schmidt (tschmidt [at] suse.de) SUSE Linux Products GmbH :: Research & Development :: Tools 144 pixels ought to be enough for anybody, www.blinkenlights.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
--- Robert Lihm, Webdesigner - openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0 - rlihm@suse.de ____________________________________________________________ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ____________________________________________________________ SUSE - a Novell business -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag 05 März 2010 schrieb Robert Lihm:
Currently we are doing this for the wiki with the css_local folder which is also fetched from the gitorious webdesign project.
My main problem is, that the CSS-base was not ready-tro-go. And If I change something, it has impact on other peoples work. So we are going Robert, this is the definition of team work.
to do thing multiple times.' This simply is the way we work and it even has a name: software development process. There are several more cool names for it: Agile, Scrum, Iterative, ....
The most important thing to do in whatever model you follow: communication. If you change something and tell everyone about it (it doesn't have be a daily standup meeting as some models propose) the change means progress, not frustration. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 04 March 2010 15:21:44 Robert Lihm wrote:
[...] PS: Just for the protocol: That we have our sources in two different systems (git/svn) makes me unhappy.
Moving some directories from svn from git is always an option, feel free to propose and drive the needed changes, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
participants (4)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Robert Lihm -
Stephan Kulow -
Thomas Schmidt