[opensuse-artwork] On using bitmaps for artwork
Hey folks We need a banner for the countdown to 12.1. So I had a look at what's there so far, specifically Marcus' great work on the 12.1 wallpaper ... and it's a bitmap :( Look, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but, really, use Inkscape or let it be :\ There are many problems with using bitmapped files (PNG, JPEG, ...): * they don't scale properly, it becomes blurred and unreadable, or pixelated * they are not reusable, at all, it's a one-shot: - nobody can make any modifications - it cannot be reused in parts or adapted (e.g. for the countdown banners) Especially since we're working in a team, in an open source project, creating work that cannot be reused or adapted by others is defeating the whole point. PNGs are exactly the same as binary RPM packages: better than nothing, but not open source, as they cannot be adapted for technical reasons. So please please please, pretty please, get used to doing stuff with Inkscape and SVG files. I mean *actual* SVG files, not SVG files that just have a bitmap in it. So we're back at square one: we don't have anything that I can use for the countdown banner. And the same will apply for any marketing material we are going to need in a very near future: * presentation backgrounds * posters * flyers etc... A bitmap will be useless for that kind of stuff too, as it cannot be re-rendered in the appropriate resolution, not be modified or used in parts, etc... The issue for the countdown banner, specifically, is that it has to be SVG and include placeholders for the localized text and amount of remaining days in it. It is processed by a script and then rendered as PNGs using inkscape's batch mode. Furthermore, I can't just use the wallpaper as the background because it needs to be reworked to have the key design elements of it fit into 400x400, 256x256 and 130x130 pixels :\ The only artwork submission for 12.1 that is actual SVG is Richard's: https://spideroak.com/browse/share/Ilmehtar/openSUSEArtwork (whom, at least as he told me, will commit his work to the art repo today ;)) cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser /\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green _\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf
Dear Pascal.
We need a banner for the countdown to 12.1.
So I had a look at what's there so far, specifically Marcus' great work on the 12.1 wallpaper ... and it's a bitmap :(
Look, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but, really, use Inkscape or let it be :\
There are many problems with using bitmapped files (PNG, JPEG, ...): * they don't scale properly, it becomes blurred and unreadable, or pixelated * they are not reusable, at all, it's a one-shot: - nobody can make any modifications - it cannot be reused in parts or adapted (e.g. for the countdown banners)
Especially since we're working in a team, in an open source project, creating work that cannot be reused or adapted by others is defeating the whole point.
PNGs are exactly the same as binary RPM packages: better than nothing, but not open source, as they cannot be adapted for technical reasons.
Not everything is possible with Inkscape, so sometimes bitmaps make sense. If so, they shoud be provided in high resolution, and that's how it's done for the 12.1 artwork.
A bitmap will be useless for that kind of stuff too, as it cannot be re-rendered in the appropriate resolution, not be modified or used in parts, etc...
For me, marketing material, should not make use of distro artwork (branding etc.) and should be free scalable. That's how we did it e.g. for the recent conference posters.
The issue for the countdown banner, specifically, is that it has to be SVG and include placeholders for the localized text and amount of remaining days in it. It is processed by a script and then rendered as PNGs using inkscape's batch mode. Furthermore, I can't just use the wallpaper as the background because it needs to be reworked to have the key design elements of it fit into 400x400, 256x256 and 130x130 pixels :\
Banners are something special. They might contain distro artwork, but they do not have to, essentially. So we could either reuse the old ones (which contain elements of the 11.3 artwork, but in darker color), we could prepare new ones based on the upcoming artwork, or we can make something neutral. Greets Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
On 10/02/2011 04:47 PM, Marcus Moeller wrote:
Dear Pascal.
We need a banner for the countdown to 12.1.
So I had a look at what's there so far, specifically Marcus' great work on the 12.1 wallpaper ... and it's a bitmap :(
Look, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but, really, use Inkscape or let it be :\
There are many problems with using bitmapped files (PNG, JPEG, ...): * they don't scale properly, it becomes blurred and unreadable, or pixelated * they are not reusable, at all, it's a one-shot: - nobody can make any modifications - it cannot be reused in parts or adapted (e.g. for the countdown banners)
Especially since we're working in a team, in an open source project, creating work that cannot be reused or adapted by others is defeating the whole point.
PNGs are exactly the same as binary RPM packages: better than nothing, but not open source, as they cannot be adapted for technical reasons.
Not everything is possible with Inkscape, so sometimes bitmaps make sense. If so, they shoud be provided in high resolution, and that's how it's done for the 12.1 artwork.
A bitmap will be useless for that kind of stuff too, as it cannot be re-rendered in the appropriate resolution, not be modified or used in parts, etc...
For me, marketing material, should not make use of distro artwork (branding etc.) and should be free scalable. That's how we did it e.g. for the recent conference posters.
The issue for the countdown banner, specifically, is that it has to be SVG and include placeholders for the localized text and amount of remaining days in it. It is processed by a script and then rendered as PNGs using inkscape's batch mode. Furthermore, I can't just use the wallpaper as the background because it needs to be reworked to have the key design elements of it fit into 400x400, 256x256 and 130x130 pixels :\
Banners are something special. They might contain distro artwork, but they do not have to, essentially.
So we could either reuse the old ones (which contain elements of the 11.3 artwork, but in darker color), we could prepare new ones based on the upcoming artwork, or we can make something neutral.
Greets Marcus
I can only share Pascal vision, sorry if it's not done in a format that permit translation, modification, it's just not done. Markus, excuse me but that kind of sentence "For me, marketing material, should not make use distro artwork ..." is something I can't afford. wtf are we or want we create that artwork team, or just let play individuals with their pencils ? Don't misunderstand me, any work done is good, but you have to understand also what we all want. I vote yes for green, but it was for the svg Richard made. why because I know that we can reuse it and adapt it to pretty any kind of material we will need. Art, design, video, are really time consuming and so need some plans. I only hope we are preparing 12.2 yes 12.2 next July -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Hi Bruno.
I can only share Pascal vision, sorry if it's not done in a format that permit translation, modification, it's just not done.
Huh, strange view. It is licensed free and you can do whatever you want with it (filter, redraw ...). What limits is limiting to SVG, because as said, not everything can be done in SVG. Take a look at the upcoming Fedora 16 artwork. It's a hand drawing.
Markus, excuse me but that kind of sentence -> still with c
"For me, marketing material, should not make use distro artwork ..." is something I can't afford. wtf are we or want we create that artwork team, or just let play individuals with their pencils ?
Don't misunderstand me, any work done is good, but you have to understand also what we all want. I vote yes for green, but it was for the svg Richard made. why because I know that we can reuse it and adapt it to pretty any kind of material we will need.
I still think marketing material should be independent from distro release. If so it can easily be reused. E.g. on FrOSCon we had no material that fits the distro release. Just a green poster and the flyers (with the design Robert has reused for his wallpaper proposal) and it was totally ok. There are still a hundreds of these left, and they can easily be reused on the next event. Can you perhaps see the advantage of distro independent marketing material now? Greets Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Le 02/10/2011 20:09, Marcus Moeller a écrit :
Can you perhaps see the advantage of distro independent marketing material now?
we probably need the two of them. Having reusable material is great, but promoting the very present release also :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Am 02.10.2011 20:20, schrieb jdd:
Le 02/10/2011 20:09, Marcus Moeller a écrit :
Can you perhaps see the advantage of distro independent marketing material now?
we probably need the two of them. Having reusable material is great, but promoting the very present release also :-)
You can also promote the present release with common marketing material. It does not mean the common material cannot contain release numbers. Here is an example of an (possibly) common artwork with release number: https://minus.com/mbchnW14Ir Greets Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Le 02/10/2011 20:26, Marcus Moeller a écrit :
It does not mean the common material cannot contain release numbers.
Here is an example of an (possibly) common artwork with release number:
but then it's no more common (as reusable) that said I really like your example! svg is also needed for translation. I don't like to use english posters in France and can manage to print some, but after translation jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
Hi all,
It does not mean the common material cannot contain release numbers.
Here is an example of an (possibly) common artwork with release number:
but then it's no more common (as reusable)
that said I really like your example!
svg is also needed for translation. I don't like to use english posters in France and can manage to print some, but after translation
Hmm, maybe it was really Pascals post that was a bit confusing. So to clarify: An SVG may also contain bitmap elements, of course the rest is still fully editable/translatable... Greets Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
On 2011-10-02 20:32:43 (+0200), Marcus Moeller
It does not mean the common material cannot contain release numbers. Here is an example of an (possibly) common artwork with release number: https://minus.com/mbchnW14Ir
That's a bitmap too :( [...]
An SVG may also contain bitmap elements, of course the rest is still fully editable/translatable...
Yes, sure, but the bitmap part still can't be scaled properly :\ A high-res original bitmap is better, of course, but still, when it's scaled down.... cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser /\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green _\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf
Am Sonntag, 2. Oktober 2011, 21:12:43 schrieb Pascal Bleser:
Yes, sure, but the bitmap part still can't be scaled properly :\
A high-res original bitmap is better, of course, but still, when it's scaled down.... Then what? Pascal, if you want to volunteer to do 12.2 artwork yourself, just shout.
Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
On 2011-10-03 13:52:53 (+0200), Stephan Kulow
Am Sonntag, 2. Oktober 2011, 21:12:43 schrieb Pascal Bleser:
Yes, sure, but the bitmap part still can't be scaled properly :\
A high-res original bitmap is better, of course, but still, when it's scaled down....
Then what? Pascal, if you want to volunteer to do 12.2 artwork yourself, just shout.
"shut up, I quit, do it yourself", ah cmon, really? Anyway, I just wanted to make that point because it has happened quite a lot in the past, and I wasn't only talking of the artwork that made it into 12.1, but actually meant that in general. Point made, I hope, and Marcus certainly made a good point as well, that vector drawing tools such as Inkscape don't work for every kind of design. Good. But it will be a pain in the bottom for a few things, that's something that has to be taken into account as well. cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser /\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green _\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf
On Monday, October 03, 2011 07:16:02 AM Pascal Bleser wrote: ...
Point made, I hope, and Marcus certainly made a good point as well, that vector drawing tools such as Inkscape don't work for every kind of design.
They actually can work, but not in a real time :) I've seen graphics that is so detailed that no one will tell it is vector graphics, but I can only imagine how long it takes to create it. Besides, we are not in the position to dictate formats. The best we can do is to take idea and convert it in a format that is better suited for reuse, or just use basic idea and develop something that is reusable. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2011-10-02 at 16:47 +0200, Marcus Moeller wrote:
For me, marketing material, should not make use of distro artwork (branding etc.) and should be free scalable. That's how we did it e.g. for the recent conference posters.
This comment concerns me as there's some definite inherent misconceptions here. However, as time is running short, I would propose that we make do with what we have and after 12.1 is released and the artwork team can have a moment to catch its breath, we have a broader discussion on stuff like this. It's worth clearing up some confusions, but not at the expense of derailing our current momentum towards 12.1. Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Marketing Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Bruno Friedmann -
Bryen M. Yunashko -
jdd -
Marcus Moeller -
Pascal Bleser -
Rajko M. -
Stephan Kulow