[opensuse-artwork] Food for thought (RE: Artwork contributions)
Hi All, I found this article from a few years ago, which seems increasingly relevant given the recent tone of discussions on this mailinglist. I'd recommend that everyone reads it http://www.itworld.com/open-source/101641/open-source-not-democracy While I think it's broadly reassuring that the issues we are facing here are not unique to ourselves, I think we could all benefit from learning the same lessons that Ubuntu, Debian, and others have learnt before us. Working in open source is not a democracy, and at the end of the day someone has to do the work to turn a design idea into a package in openSUSE factory. For those of us with the skills to do this, I encourage you to help, pitch in, and ideally work collaboratively to turn a single design into the best it can be for openSUSE 12.3. I feel competition has not served the artwork process in openSUSE well, and strongly encourage everyone to pitch in and co-operate. Only 1 design can be the default in 12.3, and if we have more than a few people actually helping make it better, then it's our users who benefit, as well as the project, while we all learn from the experience. Alternatively, if you do not feel this is the best way forward, feel free to continue as you are, feel free to develop and package up a second design, and when the Release Team see conflicting submissions of your design alongside the Grow design from Ivan, Marcus and myself, then we'll all get to have a fun time negotiating with them to decide which one ends up in the final release In the meantime, I'm packaging up what Ivan, Marcus and Myself have produced to date, and I expect to have it submitted to openSUSE factory by the end of the day For those of you without the skills to see a design through to packaging and submission, don't be discouraged. We DO want your feedback, we do want your advice, we do want your ideas. But at the end of the day, someone has to do the work to turn those ideas into reality, and sometimes that means it'll end up being 'our take' on your ideas, rather a perfect reflection of your vision. Of course, this is open source, and everything we are doing is open, out there for you to learn from - if any of you wish to learn what it takes to produce artwork that can actually be used with the current openSUSE distribution, or wish to learn in order to change what can be used, then great, pitch in, get cracking, and feel free to ask me for advice But lets call an end to the squabbling and get on with the building - Milestone 2 is already out the door and we don't even have a draft in Factory yet. Let's see if we can get something acceptable to most in and at least partially polished by the first Beta so we can spend the period between Beta and Release improving it based on everyone's feedback, including the regulars of this channel Regards Richard Brown RBrownCCB@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Richard Brown <rdb@ccb.ac.uk> wrote:
Hi All,
I found this article from a few years ago, which seems increasingly relevant given the recent tone of discussions on this mailinglist. I'd recommend that everyone reads it
http://www.itworld.com/open-source/101641/open-source-not-democracy
While I think it's broadly reassuring that the issues we are facing here are not unique to ourselves, I think we could all benefit from learning the same lessons that Ubuntu, Debian, and others have learnt before us.
Working in open source is not a democracy, and at the end of the day someone has to do the work to turn a design idea into a package in openSUSE factory.
For those of us with the skills to do this, I encourage you to help, pitch in, and ideally work collaboratively to turn a single design into the best it can be for openSUSE 12.3. I feel competition has not served the artwork process in openSUSE well, and strongly encourage everyone to pitch in and co-operate. Only 1 design can be the default in 12.3, and if we have more than a few people actually helping make it better, then it's our users who benefit, as well as the project, while we all learn from the experience.
Alternatively, if you do not feel this is the best way forward, feel free to continue as you are, feel free to develop and package up a second design, and when the Release Team see conflicting submissions of your design alongside the Grow design from Ivan, Marcus and myself, then we'll all get to have a fun time negotiating with them to decide which one ends up in the final release
In the meantime, I'm packaging up what Ivan, Marcus and Myself have produced to date, and I expect to have it submitted to openSUSE factory by the end of the day
For those of you without the skills to see a design through to packaging and submission, don't be discouraged. We DO want your feedback, we do want your advice, we do want your ideas. But at the end of the day, someone has to do the work to turn those ideas into reality, and sometimes that means it'll end up being 'our take' on your ideas, rather a perfect reflection of your vision.
Of course, this is open source, and everything we are doing is open, out there for you to learn from - if any of you wish to learn what it takes to produce artwork that can actually be used with the current openSUSE distribution, or wish to learn in order to change what can be used, then great, pitch in, get cracking, and feel free to ask me for advice
But lets call an end to the squabbling and get on with the building - Milestone 2 is already out the door and we don't even have a draft in Factory yet. Let's see if we can get something acceptable to most in and at least partially polished by the first Beta so we can spend the period between Beta and Release improving it based on everyone's feedback, including the regulars of this channel
Regards
Richard Brown RBrownCCB@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org
I like these last lines of the article "Canonical is sailing towards a longer-term design goal by making this change, and at the end of the day, someone needs to have their hand on the rudder steering the ship. It's critical to recognize that open source does not bring complete democracy to software development. It never did, and it never should. Ultimately, someone in the developer chain will have to make the tough calls. Of course, community members should take heart in knowing the converse is also true: make too many wrong calls, and community members are very free to pack up and leave. There's lots of other communities out there." By following this logic, then we would assume that since Richard and Marcus propose and do (and not only them) they have a clear vision of what the distribution should look like in future versions. The document is not opposed to have a democratic advancement within a community, but to this user, it seemed that there was a better process when people had to make the calls. However, choosing your own work to be default and ignoring ideas proposed by the rest of the community is not the best way to go. It is true that we can have endless conversations about a subject, but that only tells you that current guidelines are not working, therefore, you cannot chose on your own what goes for the rest. Not to mention that the criticism for a particular artwork choice falls generally on the team and not the individual contributor. Obviously we cannot decide on other things that escape our reach, for example, what or how some design ideas go into KDE or Gnome, because they are also to a certain level of independence. But the little reach that we have, namely the default wallpaper, is something that I believe should involve the rest of our community. This is again so that our team's decision gain strength and acceptance. Also to make sure that we feel like our teams contribute, that we can all make calls for what can or should happen in the distribution. If not, this could turn into a personal project, which is not. However, if you feel like you can make those "tough calls" given your understanding of design or given a future goal on design, let's hear it and decide if this is something that can be achieved. The fact that you are trying to advance this process by making choices in a more closed environment, does not mean in any way that they are wrong or that they are bad. It simply means that they are personal. Let's share these ideas and projects that you have! Andy (anditosan) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org
Hi All,
snip<<
However, if you feel like you can make those "tough calls" given your understanding of design or given a future goal on design, let's hear it and decide if this is something that can be achieved. The fact that you are trying to advance this process by making choices in a more closed environment, does not mean in any way that they are wrong or that they are bad. It simply means that they are personal. Let's share these ideas and projects that you have!
I have already outlined the idea of floating artwork through releases in previous posts. Please take a look at the ml archive. Greets Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org
Good read and provides a good example. While I believe Andy was working hard to provide a means for the Artwork Team to work as "collective" and many of his ideas were solid, perhaps they were not as applicable as many of us had hoped. I was under the impression he was doing an excellent job in his approach, however it would seem I need more education in working with open source development. Working in a meritocracy is still a new environment for me as I fumble my way through various areas and stages of openSUSE so as of late I find myself doing more "listening" and less "speaking" while I learn the way it all comes together from those who have many years experience and enlighten me with their professional opinions and approach techniques. I for one am pleased with the Grow design and concept in its simplicity and elegance and as I participate what I can through the various releases am learning more and more on what openSUSE looks for in their release design even if the manner in which it is applied is still confusing. Eventually I'm sure the light will come on and I will see through the dark. I have one question at the moment which I would be delighted to get your advice on Richard? What could the Artwork Team have done better or direction should have taken to be more focused and less chaotic in the design process? On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Richard Brown <rdb@ccb.ac.uk> wrote:
Hi All,
I found this article from a few years ago, which seems increasingly relevant given the recent tone of discussions on this mailinglist. I'd recommend that everyone reads it
http://www.itworld.com/open-source/101641/open-source-not-democracy
While I think it's broadly reassuring that the issues we are facing here are not unique to ourselves, I think we could all benefit from learning the same lessons that Ubuntu, Debian, and others have learnt before us.
Working in open source is not a democracy, and at the end of the day someone has to do the work to turn a design idea into a package in openSUSE factory.
For those of us with the skills to do this, I encourage you to help, pitch in, and ideally work collaboratively to turn a single design into the best it can be for openSUSE 12.3. I feel competition has not served the artwork process in openSUSE well, and strongly encourage everyone to pitch in and co-operate. Only 1 design can be the default in 12.3, and if we have more than a few people actually helping make it better, then it's our users who benefit, as well as the project, while we all learn from the experience.
Alternatively, if you do not feel this is the best way forward, feel free to continue as you are, feel free to develop and package up a second design, and when the Release Team see conflicting submissions of your design alongside the Grow design from Ivan, Marcus and myself, then we'll all get to have a fun time negotiating with them to decide which one ends up in the final release
In the meantime, I'm packaging up what Ivan, Marcus and Myself have produced to date, and I expect to have it submitted to openSUSE factory by the end of the day
For those of you without the skills to see a design through to packaging and submission, don't be discouraged. We DO want your feedback, we do want your advice, we do want your ideas. But at the end of the day, someone has to do the work to turn those ideas into reality, and sometimes that means it'll end up being 'our take' on your ideas, rather a perfect reflection of your vision.
Of course, this is open source, and everything we are doing is open, out there for you to learn from - if any of you wish to learn what it takes to produce artwork that can actually be used with the current openSUSE distribution, or wish to learn in order to change what can be used, then great, pitch in, get cracking, and feel free to ask me for advice
But lets call an end to the squabbling and get on with the building - Milestone 2 is already out the door and we don't even have a draft in Factory yet. Let's see if we can get something acceptable to most in and at least partially polished by the first Beta so we can spend the period between Beta and Release improving it based on everyone's feedback, including the regulars of this channel
Regards
Richard Brown RBrownCCB@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org
-- God bless ! Scott DuBois www.ROGUEHORSE.com openSUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2012-12-25 at 22:32 -0800, DuBois, Scott L. wrote:
I have one question at the moment which I would be delighted to get your advice on Richard? What could the Artwork Team have done better or direction should have taken to be more focused and less chaotic in the design process?
That's fairly easy to answer. The process has become far less transparent in these days than they have in the past. Ideas or processes are documented in non-transparent ways, such as using Google Docs or other tools that have limited access. At the same time, decisions and plans are announced after some apparent discussion somewhere for which the decisions themselves have been challenged because there was no proverbial "paper trail" to show how such decisions were arrived at. Attempts by those to ask for the paper trail have been met with stonewalling and refusal to disclose, and to this day these requests still have not been fulfilled. The point of transparency isn't about democracy, meritocracy or whatever -ocracy you follow. It's about making it visible so that others who *might* be able to contribute in some way have a general understanding of the process and why such process became the preferred method. If you're blindly jumping into a process at say Point C without seeing how Point A, B and D happened, you're likely to make things worse than better, and your contribution will have a lesser impact or might not even be used at all. Open source contribution comes in many forms. Some are by hard-core contributors that work daily on a particular project, and others by "drive-by" contribution. The latter being when someone happens to come along, sees very visible information about a current process, piece of software, etc. and might make a one-time contribution in a small but very big way. The sum total of these drive-by contributions can add up to a very wonderful end product. But only if the process itself is transparent, visible and easily accessible. In short, if you have a process or idea or proposal, document it on the wiki. If you want to discuss something, use the mailing list. If you have a discussion on IRC, by all means do, but then push it to the ML. You want to use tools that are widely visible by anyone, not just people who are "already there." Or you'll never get the drive-by contributions I mentioned earlier, at least not effective contributions. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Andres Silva -
Bryen M Yunashko -
DuBois, Scott L. -
Marcus Moeller -
Richard Brown