[opensuse-arm] kpartx hangs in armv6 images builds
Hi, All armv6l (raspberry pi) images hang after a call to kpartx. See: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/devel:ARM:Factory:Contrib:... Local (chroot) build is ok, so I guess this is a qemu problem? Any idea how to fix that ? Guillaume -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/27/2016 10:17 AM, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Hi,
All armv6l (raspberry pi) images hang after a call to kpartx. See: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/devel:ARM:Factory:Contrib:...
Local (chroot) build is ok, so I guess this is a qemu problem?
Any idea how to fix that ?
It's a udev problem. Spawning udev in qemu-linux-user doesn't work, because we don't allow NETLINK sockets to get created. However, after udev fails to start, it doesn't clean up properly after itself and the hinting file libudev then uses to determine whether udev is running still exists, so device mapper (kpartx) tries to talk to it and waits forever. Hannes cooked up a patch for this a while back that we were testing locally, but somehow now every build hangs for 2 minutes. I don't think anyone debugged this further. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Le 27/01/2016 15:46, Alexander Graf a écrit :
On 01/27/2016 10:17 AM, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Hi,
All armv6l (raspberry pi) images hang after a call to kpartx. See: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/devel:ARM:Factory:Contrib:...
Local (chroot) build is ok, so I guess this is a qemu problem?
Any idea how to fix that ?
It's a udev problem. Spawning udev in qemu-linux-user doesn't work, because we don't allow NETLINK sockets to get created. However, after udev fails to start, it doesn't clean up properly after itself and the hinting file libudev then uses to determine whether udev is running still exists, so device mapper (kpartx) tries to talk to it and waits forever.
Hannes cooked up a patch for this a while back that we were testing locally, but somehow now every build hangs for 2 minutes. I don't think anyone debugged this further.
Could be nice if we could find a way to fix/workaround it. Why did it work previously? Guillaume
Alex
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On 01/27/2016 08:29 PM, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Le 27/01/2016 15:46, Alexander Graf a écrit :
On 01/27/2016 10:17 AM, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Hi,
All armv6l (raspberry pi) images hang after a call to kpartx. See: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/devel:ARM:Factory:Contrib:...
Local (chroot) build is ok, so I guess this is a qemu problem?
Any idea how to fix that ?
It's a udev problem. Spawning udev in qemu-linux-user doesn't work, because we don't allow NETLINK sockets to get created. However, after udev fails to start, it doesn't clean up properly after itself and the hinting file libudev then uses to determine whether udev is running still exists, so device mapper (kpartx) tries to talk to it and waits forever.
Hannes cooked up a patch for this a while back that we were testing locally, but somehow now every build hangs for 2 minutes. I don't think anyone debugged this further.
Could be nice if we could find a way to fix/workaround it.
Why did it work previously?
Can't you open a bugzilla for this? That's far easier for tracking and debugging. Cheers, Hannes -- Dr. Hannes Reinecke Teamlead Storage & Networking hare@suse.de +49 911 74053 688 SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg GF: F. Imendörffer, J. Smithard, J. Guild, D. Upmanyu, G. Norton HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Op donderdag 28 januari 2016 08:25:04 schreef Hannes Reinecke:
On 01/27/2016 08:29 PM, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Le 27/01/201 Could be nice if we could find a way to fix/workaround it.
Why did it work previously?
Can't you open a bugzilla for this? That's far easier for tracking and debugging.
Cheers,
Hannes
There is an entry about non-usable Raspberry Pi 1 images in: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=947675 -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Guillaume, Am 27.01.2016 um 10:17 schrieb Guillaume Gardet:
All armv6l (raspberry pi) images hang after a call to kpartx. See: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/devel:ARM:Factory:Contrib:...
Local (chroot) build is ok, so I guess this is a qemu problem?
This is not new, it has been discussed several times already, including a how-to for building locally, please see the opensuse-arm archives! It's a combination of QEMU triggering a udev bug in absence of netlink. It is very unlikely to get fixed on the QEMU side. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Le 27/01/2016 16:22, Andreas Färber a écrit :
Guillaume,
Am 27.01.2016 um 10:17 schrieb Guillaume Gardet:
All armv6l (raspberry pi) images hang after a call to kpartx. See: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/devel:ARM:Factory:Contrib:...
Local (chroot) build is ok, so I guess this is a qemu problem? This is not new, it has been discussed several times already, including a how-to for building locally, please see the opensuse-arm archives!
I searched in opensuse-arm archives but I did not find anything useful to fix it.
It's a combination of QEMU triggering a udev bug in absence of netlink. It is very unlikely to get fixed on the QEMU side.
Maybe on udev side then. ;) Guillaume
Regards, Andreas
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
I've added a modified patch, let's see how it goes. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Le 01/02/2016 00:11, Dirk Müller a écrit :
HI Andreas,
I've added a modified patch, let's see how it goes. Success!! Thanks a ton!
+1 :D Good job! Guillaume
Greetings, Dirk
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Op maandag 1 februari 2016 09:37:06 schreef Guillaume Gardet:
Le 01/02/2016 00:11, Dirk Müller a écrit :
HI Andreas,
I've added a modified patch, let's see how it goes.
Success!! Thanks a ton!
+1 :D Good job!
Guillaume
Greetings, Dirk
I tried the image build today on Feb 1st 2016 in the repository below: openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build369.1.raw.xz using a connected HDMI device. But the HDMI device did not even detect a living connection. I never found a working image, since I started testing on 2015-07-17, in: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/ARM:/Factory:/Contrib:/Rasp... The last bootable image from: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/ARM:/Factory:/Contrib:/Rasp... was openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build330.10.raw.xz downloaded 2015-08-06. This one is upgradable to the latest Tumbleweed version, provided that you copy the files in /boot/dtb-4.4.0-1/ to /boot/dtb/ before a reboot. -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Am 01.02.2016 um 14:51 schrieb Freek de Kruijf:
I tried the image build today on Feb 1st 2016 in the repository below:
openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build369.1.raw.xz
using a connected HDMI device. But the HDMI device did not even detect a living connection. I never found a working image, since I started testing on 2015-07-17, in:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/ARM:/Factory:/Contrib:/Rasp...
The last bootable image from:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/ARM:/Factory:/Contrib:/Rasp...
was openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build330.10.raw.xz downloaded 2015-08-06. This one is upgradable to the latest Tumbleweed version, provided that you copy the files in /boot/dtb-4.4.0-1/ to /boot/dtb/ before a reboot.
I told you on Dec 20th: http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/ And I have now deleted devel:ARM:Factory:Contrib:RaspberryPi:upstream project to leave no doubt that it should no longer be used. Hopefully it will disappear from the download server soon. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Andreas Färber wrote:
I told you on Dec 20th:
http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/
I tried to follow your advice but there were no *.raw.xz files at that time. So before blaming people who are willing to test the stuff you should check yourself whether everything is in place. Ciao, Michael.
Am 01.02.2016 um 15:53 schrieb Michael Ströder:
Andreas Färber wrote:
I told you on Dec 20th:
http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/
Quoting myself: "the download [location] will change to: http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/" http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-12/msg00050.html
I tried to follow your advice but there were no *.raw.xz files at that time.
As you can see, I announced the new location where he would find new images once they get published and now thanks to Andreas they did. Also I asked Freek to stop reporting a black screen and to get himself a cheap serial cable, which he is also still conveniently ignoring with his message today. I invested time in cleanups, put the information out there in a thread initiated by Freek, so I totally have a right to be offended if he ignores the information and advice he received. Further I had repeatedly said that if you guys care about a Contrib repository, such as RaspberryPi2, then you need to update and clean it up yourselves. Guess how many people did since then.
So before blaming people who are willing to test the stuff you should check yourself whether everything is in place.
I did, and they are there - if you don't see them, it may be a mirror problem outside of the control of the people on this list. nebadon has been one of the very few people that were willing to re-test stuff when we actually made changes and asked for testers on opensuse-arm IRC channel. Also, guess how many people bothered to build their own Raspberry Pi 1 image with osc while the OBS builds were broken, despite a lengthy how-to I posted. At times it feels like some people operate write-only. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 1 februari 2016 16:26:06 schreef Andreas Färber:
Am 01.02.2016 um 15:53 schrieb Michael Ströder:
Andreas Färber wrote:
I told you on Dec 20th:
http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/
Quoting myself:
"the download [location] will change to:
http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/"
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-12/msg00050.html
I tried to follow your advice but there were no *.raw.xz files at that time. As you can see, I announced the new location where he would find new images once they get published and now thanks to Andreas they did.
Also I asked Freek to stop reporting a black screen and to get himself a cheap serial cable, which he is also still conveniently ignoring with his message today. I invested time in cleanups, put the information out there in a thread initiated by Freek, so I totally have a right to be offended if he ignores the information and advice he received.
I don't think it is the proper way to use a serial cable to test images for the Raspberry Pi 1. There used to be, and still is, an image that, when the RPi1 was connected to a HDMI device, showed the booting procedure right from the start. I am not capable to debug anything that has to do with the basic booting. So a serial cable is a no go for me.
Further I had repeatedly said that if you guys care about a Contrib repository, such as RaspberryPi2, then you need to update and clean it up yourselves. Guess how many people did since then.
So before blaming people who are willing to test the stuff you should check yourself whether everything is in place.
I am not blaming anybody. I sit silently till a new image arrives, I test it as far as I find useful and report my findings. I do not expect anything from anybody. I am still able to build a Raspberry Pi 1 and 2 system with openSUSE Tumbleweed from older images that suite my needs.
I did, and they are there - if you don't see them, it may be a mirror problem outside of the control of the people on this list.
nebadon has been one of the very few people that were willing to re-test stuff when we actually made changes and asked for testers on opensuse-arm IRC channel.
I am not a user of IRC.
Also, guess how many people bothered to build their own Raspberry Pi 1 image with osc while the OBS builds were broken, despite a lengthy how-to I posted. At times it feels like some people operate write-only.
Regards, Andreas
I appreciate all your efforts regarding ARM systems and openSUSE. My contribution is described above and is all I am able, and maybe willing, to do. I have both a spare RPi1B and RPi2B to perform tests. My learning skills are small, so I don't see myself able to learn to work with OBS, except when there is just a cookbook instruction which does not asks me to learn anything, just doing. -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Am 01.02.2016 um 18:05 schrieb Freek de Kruijf:
Op maandag 1 februari 2016 16:26:06 schreef Andreas Färber:
Am 01.02.2016 um 15:53 schrieb Michael Ströder:
Andreas Färber wrote:
I told you on Dec 20th:
http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/
Quoting myself:
"the download [location] will change to:
http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/"
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-12/msg00050.html
I tried to follow your advice but there were no *.raw.xz files at that time. As you can see, I announced the new location where he would find new images once they get published and now thanks to Andreas they did.
Also I asked Freek to stop reporting a black screen and to get himself a cheap serial cable, which he is also still conveniently ignoring with his message today. I invested time in cleanups, put the information out there in a thread initiated by Freek, so I totally have a right to be offended if he ignores the information and advice he received.
I don't think it is the proper way to use a serial cable to test images for the Raspberry Pi 1. There used to be, and still is, an image that, when the RPi1 was connected to a HDMI device, showed the booting procedure right from the start. I am not capable to debug anything that has to do with the basic booting. So a serial cable is a no go for me.
Further I had repeatedly said that if you guys care about a Contrib repository, such as RaspberryPi2, then you need to update and clean it up yourselves. Guess how many people did since then.
So before blaming people who are willing to test the stuff you should check yourself whether everything is in place.
I am not blaming anybody. I sit silently till a new image arrives, I test it as far as I find useful and report my findings. I do not expect anything from anybody. I am still able to build a Raspberry Pi 1 and 2 system with openSUSE Tumbleweed from older images that suite my needs.
For the record: I was not suggesting that every user of openSUSE always use a serial cable and in particular not as main user interface. Rather, I have been asking in the case of a black screen to also check the serial output, to be able to file a more useful bug report. After all it's a single-board computer with pin headers and lots of Web pages describing how to do it, so I do consider that a reasonable request. Alternatively, as Alex has said to Jimmy, early reports would help us narrow down the source of a problem - i.e. knowing that update of package A broke X would give a better starting point for investigations. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Op woensdag 3 februari 2016 22:55:58 schreef Andreas Färber:
For the record: I was not suggesting that every user of openSUSE always use a serial cable and in particular not as main user interface. Rather, I have been asking in the case of a black screen to also check the serial output, to be able to file a more useful bug report. After all it's a single-board computer with pin headers and lots of Web pages describing how to do it, so I do consider that a reasonable request.
A request I can not honor.
Alternatively, as Alex has said to Jimmy, early reports would help us narrow down the source of a problem - i.e. knowing that update of package A broke X would give a better starting point for investigations.
From Contrib:/RapberryPi all tested images showed an active screen (the message that no device was attached disappeared), but it the screen stayed black. From ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/ I tested Build369.1 which did not even activate
I logged success and failures of images for Rapberry Pi 1B. The last one that was usable is Build330.10 from Aug. 6th. After that till the last one Build340.3 from Sept. 26th I found a corrupted ext4 partition in the image from Contrib:/RaspberryPi:/upstream. The image did the initial boot. the screen (the message that no device was attached did NOT disappear). There is a Build369.2 which shows the same result. The HDMI screen does not become active. -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Am 04.02.2016 um 00:52 schrieb Freek de Kruijf:
Op woensdag 3 februari 2016 22:55:58 schreef Andreas Färber:
For the record: I was not suggesting that every user of openSUSE always use a serial cable and in particular not as main user interface. Rather, I have been asking in the case of a black screen to also check the serial output, to be able to file a more useful bug report. After all it's a single-board computer with pin headers and lots of Web pages describing how to do it, so I do consider that a reasonable request.
A request I can not honor.
It rather seems you refuse to. You must have bought an HDMI cable and a Micro USB cable, so why is a TTL UART cable any different. The cheapest I could find in .de is 3.95 EUR (no free shipping though): http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/NzU3NzkyOTk-/Bausaetze_Module/Entwicklerboards/... And this one is apparently quite widespread in the US at 9.95 USD: https://www.adafruit.com/products/954 Another month passed, so you could've ordered some from China by now... Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Freek,
I don't think it is the proper way to use a serial cable to test images for the Raspberry Pi 1.
I made a wild guess on what the problem might be for the rpi1 image (I don't own such hardware), since the issue is imho universal (it broke all armv6/7 images). I've submitted a fix for the JeOS image and to the kernel. the latter will probably take a few days to propagate though. Please let me know if the next images work. Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Andreas,
Further I had repeatedly said that if you guys care about a Contrib repository, such as RaspberryPi2, then you need to update and clean it up yourselves. Guess how many people did since then.
Well, normally the responsibility of fixing something is with the one who broke it.. I appreciate all the cleanups that have been done in JeOS, but I think its unfair to shoot the messenger when things are broken..
I did, and they are there - if you don't see them, it may be a mirror problem outside of the control of the people on this list.
Could you please update the wiki page accordingly (https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi )? Thanks a lot in advance, Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Dirk, Am 04.02.2016 um 13:57 schrieb Dirk Müller:
Further I had repeatedly said that if you guys care about a Contrib repository, such as RaspberryPi2, then you need to update and clean it up yourselves. Guess how many people did since then.
Well, normally the responsibility of fixing something is with the one who broke it.. I appreciate all the cleanups that have been done in JeOS, but I think its unfair to shoot the messenger when things are broken..
Actually I think it is unfair of users to expect that SUSE engineers must be the ones to fix things if random boards break, especially Contrib ones, given that users don't pay SUSE for that. At least for me, ARM boards are a night-time/weekend hobby and as such I cannot and won't start investigating a black-screen problem in the office. If I'm supposed to comment, I need more info and whomever wants a fix needs to deliver it. It's community work, and that means someone in this community must also investigate and possibly fix things - it seems to me an attitude issue in particular among Raspberry Pi users: It's like the most widely used ARM board and yet no one bothered to work on the mainline kernel for Raspberry Pi 2 until recently, everyone seems to be waiting for someone else rather than taking responsibility - and I feel my private time is better spent on less widespread platforms that are not working for me, unlike Raspberry Pi 1 and Raspberry Pi 2 that I do have working. It's not a general issue either, since Guillaume, Matwey, Misha, Oscar and some other non-SUSE people do understand how they can contribute in OBS. Contributing to A and asking for help with B is also much more motivating for me to help than this oh-I'm-just-a-user-not-a-developer dance; it's not like I was born an ARM/kernel/whatever developer either! At FOSDEM Michal and a visitor indicated the latest downstream kernel for the Raspberry Pi 2 were 4.1 based, whereas we have a 3.14 based kernel - one that apparently no one remembers how it was put together, so no one updates it. If there's issues, e.g., with graphics on that kernel then someone needs to package a new kernel in a home or sub-project, or build an image against Kernel:linux-next or Kernel:HEAD. If someone really badly wants to run openSUSE on a Raspberry Pi 1, the instructions for how to manually partition, cross-compile a kernel and switch to openSUSE packages have all been posted to this list, by me. Mainly the convenience stuff around Kiwi images, that I am not an expert on, "constantly" breaks in one way or another. I made the /boot/dtb symlink change and worked with you on resolving the ln issue during Hackweek after we got two good reports with serial output and later file listings pointing to that. I made the /boot/vc raspberrypi-firmware and u-boot changes, so after realizing how broken Kiwi is after updating our JeOS config scripts, I patched it. I maintain the qemu package, so I investigated the armv6l breakage, finding no QEMU change causing this error. None of us on this list updated/broke systemd however, so that left us with no one responsible reading the armv6l complaints here. If you, Dirk, want to monitor Raspberry Pi issues on this list and reply to future daily/weekly reports from Freek and Jimmy, you are more than welcome to - late last year it felt like I was left alone with replying here at times... Thanks, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Andreas,
Actually I think it is unfair of users to expect that SUSE engineers must be the ones to fix things if random boards break
I don't think anyone was calling for a "suse engineer". Users were asking for the openSUSE ARM contributors to take a look at the regression. I don't think anyone excluded "non-SUSE" people from looking at the problem and fixing it. And I'm not writing with a SUSE email here on this list...
At FOSDEM Michal and a visitor indicated the latest downstream kernel for the Raspberry Pi 2 were 4.1 based, whereas we have a 3.14 based kernel
Thanks for pointing out a completely irrelevant detail, my completely irrelevant correction follows: We have an image with 3.18 (Contrib:RaspberryPi2, working) and 4.1 (Contrib:RaspberryPi2:Staging, not working yet) kernel.
- one that apparently no one remembers how it was created
Maybe the person who created the kernel, who is listed as maintainer, and who has a git repo which accepts PRs knows how though. Oh and BTW: The kernel was not the problem of the image.
Mainly the convenience stuff around Kiwi images, that I am not an expert on, "constantly" breaks in one way or another.
Right, which is not a problem per se, because we're all humans and we make mistakes. Common practices like peer reviewing changes or respecting maintainership definitions can help though.
None of us on this list updated/broke systemd however, so that left us with no one responsible reading the armv6l complaints here.
I don't see many people complaining at all. I do see a group of people caring enough to report issues though, and I'm personally very happy to see that they care about something that I care about as well. BTW. systemd was just preventing the image from rebuild, the image was broken by other changes since it still doesn't work, and I'd guess it is reasonable to assume that somebody reading this list would find the motivation to debug and fix the issue and feel motivated since there is somebody else _as_ _well_ interested in getting that done.
If you, Dirk, want to monitor Raspberry Pi issues on this list
I don't even own a Raspberry Pi, Andreas, but even then, I'm fixing packages for armv6 because there are people caring about them being working. if there are issues reported that I can fix given time, motivation and knowledge, more often than not I'm fixing them. I don't monitor for them though, and I generally don't reply to emails that don't motivate me or where I don't have something to contribute to that motivates the sender. I also don't read new emails here within two minutes and respond within 10 minutes though, as I have a demanding day job that requires me to focus on other stuff. So it can easily take a day or even a week for me to read the email, and I don't have time every weekend to fix stuff, so it can take even longer until I get around doing something about it. In my opinion we can greatly improve the experience though by not doing major restructurings of the way how our images work without properly staging those changes, testing them through from the beginning until the end and giving others with more knowledge in how things work a chance to peer review them prior them being merged. Please note that I didn't say that I don't appreciate cleanups or long-overdue refactorings.
welcome to - late last year it felt like I was left alone with replying here at times...
I typically don't have a lot of desire to read through email threads that have a stack of replies already from here up to the moon when I take a look at my email folder. I also lost my motivation at some point 10 years ago to correct anyone who is wrong on the internet (https://xkcd.com/386/). Not replying though doesn't mean that I don't read the mailing list, and I would love to continue enjoying that going forward. Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Dirk Müller wrote:
[...]
At FOSDEM Michal and a visitor indicated the latest downstream kernel for the Raspberry Pi 2 were 4.1 based, whereas we have a 3.14 based kernel
Thanks for pointing out a completely irrelevant detail, my completely irrelevant correction follows: We have an image with 3.18 (Contrib:RaspberryPi2, working) and 4.1 (Contrib:RaspberryPi2:Staging, not working yet) kernel.
- one that apparently no one remembers how it was created
Maybe the person who created the kernel, who is listed as maintainer, and who has a git repo which accepts PRs knows how though.
Could you please dump the bits of your brain that knows about the openSUSE pi2 specialities to https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi2 ? :-) During holidays when I finally had a day where I could actually do what _I_ wanted I decided to check out the pi2 but then got completely lost between the different non working images and a kernel package that didn't indicate where it comes from. That was rather frustrating.
Oh and BTW: The kernel was not the problem of the image.
Just curious, what was it then? :-) cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Ludwig,
Could you please dump the bits of your brain that knows about the openSUSE pi2 specialities to https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi2 ? :-)
https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi2#Contributing Please note that this is not a whole lot relevant as I'm playing currently with removing the downstream kernel since the support in 4.5-rc1 doesn't look too bad right now.
The kernel was not the problem of the image. Just curious, what was it then? :-)
It was a whole stack of bugs I think, a combination of "cleanups" in the u-boot boot.script that removed the workaround for a quirk. Two bugs were I believe generic armv7 bugs (hwinfo --storage panicing the kernel, mmc_block module not being loaded by anything anymore, I couldn't figure out how that broke yet, but I saw it in the arndale image as well). Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Le 05/02/2016 09:32, Dirk Müller a écrit :
Hi Ludwig,
Could you please dump the bits of your brain that knows about the openSUSE pi2 specialities to https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi2 ? :-) https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi2#Contributing
Please note that this is not a whole lot relevant as I'm playing currently with removing the downstream kernel since the support in 4.5-rc1 doesn't look too bad right now.
Please do not. Or at least keep downstream kernel in a contrib repo (as done for RPi 1) so that people who want to run kodi (or something hardware accelerated) still can do it. Guillaume -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Dirk, Am 04.02.2016 um 23:45 schrieb Dirk Müller:
Actually I think it is unfair of users to expect that SUSE engineers must be the ones to fix things if random boards break
I don't think anyone was calling for a "suse engineer". Users were asking for the openSUSE ARM contributors to take a look at the regression. I don't think anyone excluded "non-SUSE" people from looking at the problem and fixing it. [...]
The people that took action here - myself, Alex, Andreas - all are, and we're less than the users asking. If everyone non-SUSE waits for someone else instead of pushing up their sleeves then there's no progress, that's all I was saying.
At FOSDEM Michal and a visitor indicated the latest downstream kernel for the Raspberry Pi 2 were 4.1 based, whereas we have a 3.14 based kernel
Thanks for pointing out a completely irrelevant detail, my completely irrelevant correction follows: We have an image with 3.18 (Contrib:RaspberryPi2, working) and 4.1 (Contrib:RaspberryPi2:Staging, not working yet) kernel.
Let's be fully correct then: It's 3.18.14!
- one that apparently no one remembers how it was created
Maybe the person who created the kernel, who is listed as maintainer, and who has a git repo which accepts PRs knows how though.
Then why weren't you answering when people asked about it. I'm not the one you need to tell, I don't really care. It could be documented a) in the spec file, b) in the package or project description. And some README.txt file in the repository might be a useful feature for people accessing it directly from the Wiki etc.
The kernel was not the problem of the image.
The problem is a) people _call_ it an openSUSE image despite not having an openSUSE kernel, and b) users keep comparing openSUSE to Raspbian and blaming openSUSE for the Raspberry Pi Foundation and Broadcom not working with the kernel community properly. If graphics are slow in the mainline kernel then that's not our fault and people should contribute to improving that there; otherwise doing a KMP against our kernel for that driver specifically would be better than offering a whole alternative kernel for laziness. Whenever there's two (or more) download locations we can be sure that someone will choose the wrong one, therefore we need to limit choices. The Contribs had packages violating OBS rules wrt binary userspace programs, misusing SUSE-Firmware license, failing for a long time, adding non-essential contrib packages to the official JeOS, ... do I need to go on? I don't understand why we still have Contrib:RaspberryPi. I would've deleted it when the download location discussion came up again had not Guillaume recently updated raspberrypi-userland.
Mainly the convenience stuff around Kiwi images, that I am not an expert on, "constantly" breaks in one way or another.
Right, which is not a problem per se, because we're all humans and we make mistakes. Common practices like peer reviewing changes or respecting maintainership definitions can help though.
Then you could start with giving me a chance to review kernel config changes and not changing them behind my back and, without asking me first, dropping options that I invested time to make consistent! No notifications are being sent when -rc1 has been checked in (last time I checked it was upstream but not in master) or when someone pushes changes. Sometimes SRs are ignored for weeks, then someone submits and accepts their own and tells everyone else to rebase them despite seeing no issue with them. Review and times we work on things never are in sync. Other times SRs get accepted quicker than I can re-review my own diff. Also we will never get u-boot or dtb-source updated in Factory if we keep superseding each other's SRs rather than waiting while an in-flight one goes through Staging and Factory review. Missing links is a recurring pain point that some of us maintainers can't remedy ourselves. And may I remind you that there is no devel project set for JeOS. Not that it would help with the armv7l build power problems with existing images not getting rebuilt within two weeks. Part of the official OBS workflow is also using Submit Requests and not committing to Contrib projects directly, which then leaves me and other people without change notifications. Please Don't Do That. Yes, a lot of things can be done to improve the situation. Some others are limited by our build power unfortunately. Yet others could use some better support on the osc (branch) side.
None of us on this list updated/broke systemd however, so that left us with no one responsible reading the armv6l complaints here.
I don't see many people complaining at all. I do see a group of people caring enough to report issues though, and I'm personally very happy to see that they care about something that I care about as well.
There's been at least a handful of people complaining about Raspberry Pi images specifically, I can't help you if you didn't see that. Including a cascade of self-replies by one such user that the image was still not working - obviously if no one works on it it would be surprising if it suddenly worked again. Including someone setting deadlines until when he needs a working image. Now if you want to blame me for some of the causes, say it clearly. * Had people not piled up packages in Contrib:RaspberryPi I wouldn't have needed to spend time cleaning them up (raspberrypi-firmware,pihwm). => Give less people maintainer access, reject optional packages and let them go through the usual review processes outside the ARM team. * Same if someone had been thinking earlier about updating a running system rather than piling up stuff in the JeOS image initialization only (raspberrypi-firmware-branding-openSUSE, /boot/vc). => Put BeagleBoard alsa config into alsa (Takashi can help get that upstream if needed), create individual *-branding-openSUSE packages for dracut configs. May involve splitting configs by boot media. * Would Kiwi simply put any files installed to /boot in one partition, we wouldn't need to patch Kiwi again and again (/dtb-*, /boot/vc). * Would we have Staging Rings for ARM then dtb-source and u-boot changes would not arrive via Factory accept without being tested against JeOS. Limited by build power and patience. * Would JeOS actually have build-time checks and fail when files are not in the expected location, some breakages would've been easier to spot (/boot/vc). * Would we stage dtb-source from Kernel:linux-next through Kernel:HEAD to Base:System we could test some additions much earlier (dtb-meson8b). Downside is such branches would silently break whenever someone changes Base:System. Similar merge problems exist for Contrib JeOS branches. * Would we have an archive of known working Tumbleweed images then temporary image breakages wouldn't be as severe. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Andreas,
The people that took action here - myself, Alex, Andreas - all are, and we're less than the users asking.
.. action that you *perceived* to take action. A strong difference!
It could be documented a) in the spec file, b) in the package or project description. And some README.txt file in the repository might be a useful feature for people accessing it directly from the Wiki etc.
it is documented in the maintainer and bugowner roles.. And there is no way to inject a README.txt file in the kernel-source build process as far as I know.
The problem is a) people _call_ it an openSUSE image despite not having an openSUSE kernel
Sure, because it contains openSUSE :-) Just because it does not *only* consists of openSUSE it isn't openSUSE anymore.
Then you could start with giving me a chance to review kernel config changes and not changing them behind my back and, without asking me first, dropping options that I invested time to make consistent!
Usually there is a reason given in the change.. We can go over it in detail if you want, I'm typically fixing the config for consistency and don't try to drop options without reasoning (actually I just got a notification that I added too many options in the last update.. :-) ).
Also we will never get u-boot or dtb-source updated in Factory if we keep superseding each other's SRs rather than waiting while an in-flight one goes through Staging and Factory review.
Those are additional packages so if they get stuck then there is a reason that needs fixing. Waiting longer isn't gonna fix it.
Missing links is a recurring pain point that some of us maintainers can't remedy ourselves.
Thats why the SRs to those packages are configured to add me as a reviewer, and if you would respect that reviewer setting then I'd have a chance to fix the link issue and you don't have to "complain" about it anymore.
And may I remind you that there is no devel project set for JeOS.
I am painfully aware, thats why I said I would prefer to have those who maintain an image review changes that affect that image..
that it would help with the armv7l build power problems with existing images not getting rebuilt within two weeks.
which is an OBS bug/behaviour change we're trying to fix right now. if you check the history, you see it was not an issue until the 2nd last OBS code update.
Part of the official OBS workflow is also using Submit Requests and not committing to Contrib projects directly, which then leaves me and other people without change notifications. Please Don't Do That.
First of all you even get change notifications when direct commits are done for projects that you care about. But even then, I think Contribs are allowed to be maintained by those who maintain it, even without you reviewing the change.
Yes, a lot of things can be done to improve the situation. Some others are limited by our build power unfortunately.
.. which are partially caused by regressions in our openSUSE kernel. But thanks for bringing it up after we have spent a few nights on isolating and fixing it.
I don't see many people complaining at all. I do see a group of people caring enough to report issues though, and I'm personally very happy to see that they care about something that I care about as well. There's been at least a handful of people complaining about Raspberry Pi images specifically, I can't help you if you didn't see that.
I'm specifically annoyed by the word "complaining". People have mentioned this, yes, and as I said before, I am reading it. I just don't reply if I have nothing useful to add.
* Would we stage dtb-source from Kernel:linux-next through Kernel:HEAD to Base:System we could test some additions much earlier (dtb-meson8b). Downside is such branches would silently break whenever someone changes Base:System. Similar merge problems exist for Contrib JeOS branches.
That's why there is a common sense to not have downstream modifications of JeOS branches. we could document that for a policy if you want.
* Would we have an archive of known working Tumbleweed images then temporary image breakages wouldn't be as severe.
yeah, but it requires work to have the archive kept maintained. creating that would be easy. Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Am 04.02.2016 um 13:57 schrieb Dirk Müller:
Could you please update the wiki page accordingly (https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Raspberry_Pi )?
I don't spot a Tumbleweed section to be updated there, only 13.1 and 13.2 sections. Speaking of which, I did backport my JeOS /boot/vc changes to 13.1 and 13.2, but I'm afraid that Kiwi backports may be needed there, too. 13.1 Contrib has an old copypac version, 13.2 none. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/devel:ARM:13.1:Contrib:RaspberryPi/k... https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/devel:ARM:13.2:Contrib:RaspberryPi In general I think it's a bad idea to link Factory or devel packages into stable releases - it makes them highly unstable. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
The last bootable image from:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/ARM:/Factory:/Contrib:/Rasp...
was openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build330.10.raw.xz downloaded 2015-08-06. This one is upgradable to the latest Tumbleweed version, provided that you copy the files in /boot/dtb-4.4.0-1/ to /boot/dtb/ before a reboot.
For the records: IIRC openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build333.2.raw.xz from the URL above worked too. I can re-test with an old copy if needed. Ciao, Michael.
Op maandag 1 februari 2016 15:42:25 schreef Michael Ströder:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
The last bootable image from:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/ARM:/Factory:/Contrib:/Ra spberryPi:/upstream/images/
was openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build330.10.raw.xz downloaded 2015-08-06. This one is upgradable to the latest Tumbleweed version, provided that you copy the files in /boot/dtb-4.4.0-1/ to /boot/dtb/ before a reboot.
For the records: IIRC openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build333.2.raw.xz from the URL above worked too. I can re-test with an old copy if needed.
Found today that I have a perfect working SD card in my desktop, but when I use it in my Raspberry Pi 1B it does nothing. So my earlier messages about a black screen are caused by this failing SD card, which I kept using to do my tests. So it is quite possible that Build333.2 will work. I tested again Build330.10, which also works with another SD card. Using that another SD card I tried openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build373.3.raw.xz from http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/ It initially boots, so no black screen anymore. but it gives the error message: Initramfs unpacking failed: write error Can't find udev daemon -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Am 10.02.2016 um 13:08 schrieb Freek de Kruijf <freek@opensuse.org>:
Op maandag 1 februari 2016 15:42:25 schreef Michael Ströder:
Freek de Kruijf wrote:
The last bootable image from:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:/ARM:/Factory:/Contrib:/Ra spberryPi:/upstream/images/
was openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build330.10.raw.xz downloaded 2015-08-06. This one is upgradable to the latest Tumbleweed version, provided that you copy the files in /boot/dtb-4.4.0-1/ to /boot/dtb/ before a reboot.
For the records: IIRC openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build333.2.raw.xz from the URL above worked too. I can re-test with an old copy if needed.
Found today that I have a perfect working SD card in my desktop, but when I use it in my Raspberry Pi 1B it does nothing. So my earlier messages about a black screen are caused by this failing SD card, which I kept using to do my tests. So it is quite possible that Build333.2 will work. I tested again Build330.10, which also works with another SD card.
Using that another SD card I tried openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build373.3.raw.xz from http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/ It initially boots, so no black screen anymore. but it gives the error message: Initramfs unpacking failed: write error Can't find udev daemon
This is probably because we no longer use ramfs as the rootfs type, since setting that breaks the image on second boot. I see 3 realistic options out of this: 1) Patch the kernel to use ramfs by default instead of tmpfs when ram is less than 2G. 2) Add another layer of abstraction and move the initrd fs into an actual file system we loop mount. This is how the installer initrd works. 3) Patch kiwi to add fstype=ramfs on first boot only. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Op woensdag 10 februari 2016 13:44:11 schreef Alexander Graf:
Am 10.02.2016 um 13:08 schrieb Freek de Kruijf <freek@opensuse.org>: Using that another SD card I tried openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build373.3.raw.xz from http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/ It initially boots, so no black screen anymore. but it gives the error message: Initramfs unpacking failed: write error Can't find udev daemon
This is probably because we no longer use ramfs as the rootfs type, since setting that breaks the image on second boot.
I see 3 realistic options out of this:
1) Patch the kernel to use ramfs by default instead of tmpfs when ram is less than 2G.
2) Add another layer of abstraction and move the initrd fs into an actual file system we loop mount. This is how the installer initrd works.
3) Patch kiwi to add fstype=ramfs on first boot only.
Tried Build374.2 from the above repository today. Same initial error message. After that other error messages than previously. -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Op vrijdag 12 februari 2016 23:28:43 schreef Freek de Kruijf:
Op woensdag 10 februari 2016 13:44:11 schreef Alexander Graf:
Am 10.02.2016 um 13:08 schrieb Freek de Kruijf <freek@opensuse.org>: Using that another SD card I tried openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build373.3.raw.xz from http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/ It initially boots, so no black screen anymore. but it gives the error message: Initramfs unpacking failed: write error Can't find udev daemon
This is probably because we no longer use ramfs as the rootfs type, since setting that breaks the image on second boot.
I see 3 realistic options out of this: 1) Patch the kernel to use ramfs by default instead of tmpfs when ram is
less than 2G.
2) Add another layer of abstraction and move the initrd fs into an actual
file system we loop mount. This is how the installer initrd works.
3) Patch kiwi to add fstype=ramfs on first boot only.
Tried Build374.2 from the above repository today. Same initial error message. After that other error messages than previously.
Tried JeOS Build375.2 from 2016-02-16. Needed to change boot.script, but same result as with Build374.3. -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 16 februari 2016 11:18:46 schreef Freek de Kruijf:
Op vrijdag 12 februari 2016 23:28:43 schreef Freek de Kruijf:
Op woensdag 10 februari 2016 13:44:11 schreef Alexander Graf:
Am 10.02.2016 um 13:08 schrieb Freek de Kruijf <freek@opensuse.org>: Using that another SD card I tried openSUSE-Tumbleweed-ARM-JeOS-raspberrypi.armv6l-1.12.1-Build373.3.raw. xz from http://download.opensuse.org/ports/armv6hl/tumbleweed/images/ It initially boots, so no black screen anymore. but it gives the error message: Initramfs unpacking failed: write error Can't find udev daemon
This is probably because we no longer use ramfs as the rootfs type, since setting that breaks the image on second boot.
I see 3 realistic options out of this: 1) Patch the kernel to use ramfs by default instead of tmpfs when ram is
less than 2G.
2) Add another layer of abstraction and move the initrd fs into an actual
file system we loop mount. This is how the installer initrd works.
3) Patch kiwi to add fstype=ramfs on first boot only.
Tried Build374.2 from the above repository today. Same initial error message. After that other error messages than previously.
Tried JeOS Build375.2 from 2016-02-16. Needed to change boot.script, but same result as with Build374.3.
Tried Build375.4. Needed to add rootfstype=ramfs, NOT fstype=ramfs as given above, to the boot line. After that, NO error messages anymore. After a while the system hangs with a message about a reboot, however the lights about an Ethernet connections are on, but it did not get an IP address. Inspection of the partitions on the SD card shows that a fourth swap partition has been added at the end of SD card and the third partition has been extended, so all the memory on the card is available for data. PROBLEM is that after power down and power up nothing happens. The HDMI device connected does not get a signal, so it still shows no connected device. Also the lights of the Ethernet port remain dark. Something on the SD card does not indicate a bootable device anymore. Putting back the image on the SD card and making the change in boot.script and the mkimage command gives an active device again. It shows an initial boot and a second boot, showing Tux. At the end, the message about a reboot, which does not happen. -- fr.gr. member openSUSE Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Alexander Graf
-
Andreas Färber
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Andreas Schwab
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Dirk Müller
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Freek de Kruijf
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Guillaume Gardet
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Hannes Reinecke
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Ludwig Nussel
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Michael Ströder