e1000_watchdog_task: NIC Link is Up 10 Mbps Full Duplex
I've installed SUSE 10.0 (OSS) on a dual opteron 250, 4 GB RAM, with a Tyan S2875 K8W Tiger motherboard. The onboard NIC is Intel Gigabit Ethernet. My kernel is 2.6.13-15-smp, and I have the e1000 module loaded without any options. When my network comes up, I see in my logs: Nov 14 10:09:42 lincoln kernel: eth0: no IPv6 routers present Nov 14 10:09:50 lincoln kernel: e1000: eth0: e1000_watchdog_task: NIC Link is Up 10 Mbps Full Duplex The network is obviously pretty slow with this setup. I've tried forcing the interface to 100BaseT full duplex (that's what my switch supports) by placing this in my /etc/modprobe.conf.local file: options e1000 Duplex=2 Speed=100 The interface appears to come up in the logs I see: Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Driver - version 6.0.60-k2-NAPI Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: Copyright (c) 1999-2005 Intel Corporation. Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Forcing to 100 Mbps Full Duplex Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Speed, AutoNeg and MDI-X specifications are incompatible. Setting MDI-X to a compatible value. Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: eth0: e1000_probe: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Connection But, I can't access the network - i.e., ping by ipaddr gets me 'Destination Host Unreachable' Can anyone offer advice? Thanks, Ken -- Ken Siersma, Software Engineer EKK, Inc. phone: (248) 624-9957 fax: (248) 624-7158 http://www.ekkinc.com -- "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -MLK Jr.
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 13:02 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
I've installed SUSE 10.0 (OSS) on a dual opteron 250, 4 GB RAM, with a Tyan S2875 K8W Tiger motherboard. The onboard NIC is Intel Gigabit Ethernet. My kernel is 2.6.13-15-smp, and I have the e1000 module loaded without any options. When my network comes up, I see in my logs:
Nov 14 10:09:42 lincoln kernel: eth0: no IPv6 routers present Nov 14 10:09:50 lincoln kernel: e1000: eth0: e1000_watchdog_task: NIC Link is Up 10 Mbps Full Duplex
The network is obviously pretty slow with this setup. I've tried forcing the interface to 100BaseT full duplex (that's what my switch supports) by placing this in my /etc/modprobe.conf.local file:
options e1000 Duplex=2 Speed=100
The interface appears to come up in the logs I see:
Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Driver - version 6.0.60-k2-NAPI Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: Copyright (c) 1999-2005 Intel Corporation. Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Forcing to 100 Mbps Full Duplex Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Speed, AutoNeg and MDI-X specifications are incompatible. Setting MDI-X to a compatible value. Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: eth0: e1000_probe: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Connection
But, I can't access the network - i.e., ping by ipaddr gets me 'Destination Host Unreachable'
Can anyone offer advice? Thanks, Ken
This is most likely a switch issue. You will want to force the port on the switch to 100Mb from AUTO. It is not detecting the speed correctly. Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Brad Dameron wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 13:02 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
I've installed SUSE 10.0 (OSS) on a dual opteron 250, 4 GB RAM, with a Tyan S2875 K8W Tiger motherboard. The onboard NIC is Intel Gigabit Ethernet. My kernel is 2.6.13-15-smp, and I have the e1000 module loaded without any options. When my network comes up, I see in my logs:
Nov 14 10:09:42 lincoln kernel: eth0: no IPv6 routers present Nov 14 10:09:50 lincoln kernel: e1000: eth0: e1000_watchdog_task: NIC Link is Up 10 Mbps Full Duplex
The network is obviously pretty slow with this setup. I've tried forcing the interface to 100BaseT full duplex (that's what my switch supports) by placing this in my /etc/modprobe.conf.local file:
options e1000 Duplex=2 Speed=100
The interface appears to come up in the logs I see:
Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Driver - version 6.0.60-k2-NAPI Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: Copyright (c) 1999-2005 Intel Corporation. Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Forcing to 100 Mbps Full Duplex Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Speed, AutoNeg and MDI-X specifications are incompatible. Setting MDI-X to a compatible value. Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: eth0: e1000_probe: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Connection
But, I can't access the network - i.e., ping by ipaddr gets me 'Destination Host Unreachable'
Can anyone offer advice? Thanks, Ken
This is most likely a switch issue. You will want to force the port on the switch to 100Mb from AUTO. It is not detecting the speed correctly.
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
I don't think so... the port is a Linksys EZXS55W, which autosenses duplex mode and speed. The other machines I have on this switch are running at 100 MB without me doing anything special.
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 13:28 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
This is most likely a switch issue. You will want to force the port on the switch to 100Mb from AUTO. It is not detecting the speed correctly.
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
I don't think so... the port is a Linksys EZXS55W, which autosenses duplex mode and speed. The other machines I have on this switch are running at 100 MB without me doing anything special.
Not sure you understand that the AUTO is not sensing it correctly. Even when you force the port speed on the NIC. I have dealt with this same problem even with Cisco and Foundry switches. If this is not the case then it is a cable issue. Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Brad Dameron wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 13:28 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
This is most likely a switch issue. You will want to force the port on the switch to 100Mb from AUTO. It is not detecting the speed correctly.
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
I don't think so... the port is a Linksys EZXS55W, which autosenses duplex mode and speed. The other machines I have on this switch are running at 100 MB without me doing anything special.
Not sure you understand that the AUTO is not sensing it correctly. Even when you force the port speed on the NIC. I have dealt with this same problem even with Cisco and Foundry switches. If this is not the case then it is a cable issue.
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Okay, if I bypass the Linksys switch (connect it directly to the wall, which is controlled by a Netgear FS524 switch) then the Intel Gigabit card runs at 100BaseT. I don't think it is a port or a cable issue, as I've tried ports and cables that work in 100BaseT full duplex mode with other machines on my linksys switch. It appears to just be that the e1000 card can not agree with the Linksys switch. I'd like to get this machine working with the Linksys switch, so any further advice would be welcomed. -Ken
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 14:28 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Okay, if I bypass the Linksys switch (connect it directly to the wall, which is controlled by a Netgear FS524 switch) then the Intel Gigabit card runs at 100BaseT. I don't think it is a port or a cable issue, as I've tried ports and cables that work in 100BaseT full duplex mode with other machines on my linksys switch. It appears to just be that the e1000 card can not agree with the Linksys switch. I'd like to get this machine working with the Linksys switch, so any further advice would be welcomed.
-Ken
Refer to my last 2 emails that have told you what to do several times now. Brad Dameron Senior Systems Administrator SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Brad Dameron wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 14:28 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Okay, if I bypass the Linksys switch (connect it directly to the wall, which is controlled by a Netgear FS524 switch) then the Intel Gigabit card runs at 100BaseT. I don't think it is a port or a cable issue, as I've tried ports and cables that work in 100BaseT full duplex mode with other machines on my linksys switch. It appears to just be that the e1000 card can not agree with the Linksys switch. I'd like to get this machine working with the Linksys switch, so any further advice would be welcomed.
-Ken
Refer to my last 2 emails that have told you what to do several times now.
Brad Dameron Senior Systems Administrator SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Isn't it obvious that you are speaking at a level that I cannot understand? I've stated that the only way I can see to force anything to 100BaseT is by passing options pertaining to the e1000 kernel module. You told me in the first email to "force the port on the switch to 100Mb from AUTO." I appreciate your advice, but I've expressed that I haven't a clue how to actually accomplish that with my equipment. So you've been vague and now you are being patronizing. Thanks, but then again, no thanks. Any advice from *anybody else* would be greatly appreciated.
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 15:08 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Brad Dameron wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 14:28 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Okay, if I bypass the Linksys switch (connect it directly to the wall, which is controlled by a Netgear FS524 switch) then the Intel Gigabit card runs at 100BaseT. I don't think it is a port or a cable issue, as I've tried ports and cables that work in 100BaseT full duplex mode with other machines on my linksys switch. It appears to just be that the e1000 card can not agree with the Linksys switch. I'd like to get this machine working with the Linksys switch, so any further advice would be welcomed.
-Ken
Refer to my last 2 emails that have told you what to do several times now.
Brad Dameron Senior Systems Administrator SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Isn't it obvious that you are speaking at a level that I cannot understand? I've stated that the only way I can see to force anything to 100BaseT is by passing options pertaining to the e1000 kernel module. You told me in the first email to "force the port on the switch to 100Mb from AUTO." I appreciate your advice, but I've expressed that I haven't a clue how to actually accomplish that with my equipment. So you've been vague and now you are being patronizing. Thanks, but then again, no thanks.
Any advice from *anybody else* would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry. I looked at your emails and didn't understand that you did not know how to do this. It seemed more like you didn't believe me and wanted another answer. The bad news is after looking at the switch model I realized you can not do this with this switch. Have you tried other ports on the switch? Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Brad Dameron wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 15:08 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Brad Dameron wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 14:28 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Okay, if I bypass the Linksys switch (connect it directly to the wall, which is controlled by a Netgear FS524 switch) then the Intel Gigabit card runs at 100BaseT. I don't think it is a port or a cable issue, as I've tried ports and cables that work in 100BaseT full duplex mode with other machines on my linksys switch. It appears to just be that the e1000 card can not agree with the Linksys switch. I'd like to get this machine working with the Linksys switch, so any further advice would be welcomed.
-Ken
Refer to my last 2 emails that have told you what to do several times now.
Brad Dameron Senior Systems Administrator SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Isn't it obvious that you are speaking at a level that I cannot understand? I've stated that the only way I can see to force anything to 100BaseT is by passing options pertaining to the e1000 kernel module. You told me in the first email to "force the port on the switch to 100Mb from AUTO." I appreciate your advice, but I've expressed that I haven't a clue how to actually accomplish that with my equipment. So you've been vague and now you are being patronizing. Thanks, but then again, no thanks.
Any advice from *anybody else* would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry. I looked at your emails and didn't understand that you did not know how to do this. It seemed more like you didn't believe me and wanted another answer. The bad news is after looking at the switch model I realized you can not do this with this switch. Have you tried other ports on the switch?
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Apology accepted, and I apologize for my snide response. Looking back at my emails I see I was a bit more vague than I intended to be. I have tried other ports on the switch. While it would be nice to get this machine running at 100BaseT with this switch, it isn't absolutely necessary. This was an inexpensive switch, we'll probably be looking to upgrade to gigabit in the near future, so I can just deal with it being slow until we upgrade our network. I'm still puzzled as to why I can't get the NIC to agree with this switch, but if it isn't possible I can accept that. Thanks for your help. -Ken
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 15:47 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Apology accepted, and I apologize for my snide response. Looking back at my emails I see I was a bit more vague than I intended to be.
I have tried other ports on the switch.
While it would be nice to get this machine running at 100BaseT with this switch, it isn't absolutely necessary. This was an inexpensive switch, we'll probably be looking to upgrade to gigabit in the near future, so I can just deal with it being slow until we upgrade our network. I'm still puzzled as to why I can't get the NIC to agree with this switch, but if it isn't possible I can accept that.
Thanks for your help. -Ken
Even with one of my $8k manage switches I have had this problem in the past with Intel Pro cards. Not sure why either. Noone can seem to give me a straight forward answer. If you want a cheap 8port GiGe switch look at the Netgear GS608. Should be priced around $65. I have several in my office and have many Intel Pro 1000 cards plugged in with no problems. Or if you want something better look at the Netgear GS716T or GS724T. They have very fast backplanes and the ports can be configured, trunked, etc. And they are very priced from $260 for 16 port and $320 for 24 port. Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Brad Dameron wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 15:47 -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:
Apology accepted, and I apologize for my snide response. Looking back at my emails I see I was a bit more vague than I intended to be.
I have tried other ports on the switch.
While it would be nice to get this machine running at 100BaseT with this switch, it isn't absolutely necessary. This was an inexpensive switch, we'll probably be looking to upgrade to gigabit in the near future, so I can just deal with it being slow until we upgrade our network. I'm still puzzled as to why I can't get the NIC to agree with this switch, but if it isn't possible I can accept that.
Thanks for your help. -Ken
Even with one of my $8k manage switches I have had this problem in the past with Intel Pro cards. Not sure why either. Noone can seem to give me a straight forward answer.
If you want a cheap 8port GiGe switch look at the Netgear GS608. Should be priced around $65. I have several in my office and have many Intel Pro 1000 cards plugged in with no problems. Or if you want something better look at the Netgear GS716T or GS724T. They have very fast backplanes and the ports can be configured, trunked, etc. And they are very priced from $260 for 16 port and $320 for 24 port.
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Thanks for the recommendations. -- Ken Siersma, Software Engineer EKK, Inc. phone: (248) 624-9957 fax: (248) 624-7158 http://www.ekkinc.com -- "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -MLK Jr.
Looking at the archive of this thread, it looks like one possibility that hasn't been tried is to explicitly tell the Intel NIC to use 100Mbps FDX. Is that worth trying? Sorry, I don't know how to do it off the top of my head and I'm not at work. The other oddity I noticed was in the original log: e1000_check_copper_options: Forcing to 100 Mbps Full Duplex Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Speed, AutoNeg and MDI-X specifications are incompatible. Setting MDI-X to a compatible value. Am I right that this means it got the speed right but then got confused about whether there was a crossed cable? I've no idea what that implies. Ken, one other thought is that it might be worth posing this question to tyan support. Cheers, Dave
Try adding the following to /etc/modules.conf options e1000 Duplex=2 Speed=100 I grabbed that from http://www.contentkeeper.com/pdfs Modifying Intel e1000 Driver Parameters.pdf Mike Dave Howorth wrote:
Looking at the archive of this thread, it looks like one possibility that hasn't been tried is to explicitly tell the Intel NIC to use 100Mbps FDX. Is that worth trying? Sorry, I don't know how to do it off the top of my head and I'm not at work.
The other oddity I noticed was in the original log:
e1000_check_copper_options: Forcing to 100 Mbps Full Duplex Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Speed, AutoNeg and MDI-X specifications are incompatible. Setting MDI-X to a compatible value.
Am I right that this means it got the speed right but then got confused about whether there was a crossed cable? I've no idea what that implies.
Ken, one other thought is that it might be worth posing this question to tyan support.
Cheers, Dave
Mike Brown wrote:
Try adding the following to /etc/modules.conf
options e1000 Duplex=2 Speed=100
I grabbed that from http://www.contentkeeper.com/pdfs Modifying Intel e1000 Driver Parameters.pdf
Mike
Dave Howorth wrote:
Looking at the archive of this thread, it looks like one possibility that hasn't been tried is to explicitly tell the Intel NIC to use 100Mbps FDX. Is that worth trying? Sorry, I don't know how to do it off the top of my head and I'm not at work.
The other oddity I noticed was in the original log:
e1000_check_copper_options: Forcing to 100 Mbps Full Duplex Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Speed, AutoNeg and MDI-X specifications are incompatible. Setting MDI-X to a compatible value.
Am I right that this means it got the speed right but then got confused about whether there was a crossed cable? I've no idea what that implies.
Ken, one other thought is that it might be worth posing this question to tyan support.
Cheers, Dave
I tried that, see my original post. It strangely would render the network unuseable. The network would start, ifconfig would report that the interface was up, but no traffic could be pushed through the interface. -Ken
Hey all, Thread lurking, and figured I'd chime in. We have had a hell of a time getting the SuSE amd64 based kernels to behave properly with Intel Pro 1000 cards. We've tried: 1) ethtool for forcing speed and duplex to 100baseT Full linux # ethtool -s eth0 speed 100 duplex full autoneg off 2) mii-diag for forcing speed and duplex to 100baseT Full linux # mii-diag -F 100baseTx-FD -A 100baseTx-FD 3) passing kernel driver parameters in ... all to no avail... the last thing we tried was booting to dos and using intels diagnostic / settings utilities to force the card to 100 full. Even that crapped out after a reboot of the box. I think the problem may be more serious than just Auto-detection not working. We've got s2885's with a PCI-X Intel Pro 1000 card. Would like to get 2 cards working reliably but would rejoice with one working reliably. Any other experiences with other kernels / distro's ? Darren ======================================= D. Lissimore Industrial Cyber-security http://www.bcit.ca/appliedresearch/security/ ======================================= On November 14, 2005 02:41 pm, Mike Brown wrote:
Try adding the following to /etc/modules.conf
options e1000 Duplex=2 Speed=100
I grabbed that from http://www.contentkeeper.com/pdfs Modifying Intel e1000 Driver Parameters.pdf
Mike
Dave Howorth wrote:
Looking at the archive of this thread, it looks like one possibility that hasn't been tried is to explicitly tell the Intel NIC to use 100Mbps FDX. Is that worth trying? Sorry, I don't know how to do it off the top of my head and I'm not at work.
The other oddity I noticed was in the original log:
e1000_check_copper_options: Forcing to 100 Mbps Full Duplex Nov 14 10:22:29 lincoln kernel: e1000: 0000:02:03.0: e1000_check_copper_options: Speed, AutoNeg and MDI-X specifications are incompatible. Setting MDI-X to a compatible value.
Am I right that this means it got the speed right but then got confused about whether there was a crossed cable? I've no idea what that implies.
Ken, one other thought is that it might be worth posing this question to tyan support.
Cheers, Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren Lissimore"
Hey all,
Thread lurking, and figured I'd chime in. We have had a hell of a time getting the SuSE amd64 based kernels to behave properly with Intel Pro 1000 cards.
We've tried: 1) ethtool for forcing speed and duplex to 100baseT Full linux # ethtool -s eth0 speed 100 duplex full autoneg off 2) mii-diag for forcing speed and duplex to 100baseT Full linux # mii-diag -F 100baseTx-FD -A 100baseTx-FD 3) passing kernel driver parameters in ...
all to no avail... the last thing we tried was booting to dos and using intels diagnostic / settings utilities to force the card to 100 full. Even that crapped out after a reboot of the box.
I think the problem may be more serious than just Auto-detection not working. We've got s2885's with a PCI-X Intel Pro 1000 card. Would like to get 2 cards working reliably but would rejoice with one working reliably.
Any other experiences with other kernels / distro's ?
Darren
I don't believe this is a kernel problem as I have several of these cards working just fine. I even have a few dual port Pro 1000 cards and a single Quad port card that appear to be working just fine at 1000Mb. I did have a few have problems at 100Mb but I fixed that by setting my switch port to 100Mb FULL instead of auto-sensing. What kind of switch are you using? I am wondering if this is a issue with some cheaper switches. But I do have a few cheap Netgear switches I have no problems with as well. Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
On November 14, 2005 09:33 pm, Brad Dameron wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Lissimore"
To: Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [suse-amd64] e1000_watchdog_task: NIC Link is Up 10 Mbps Full Duplex Hey all,
Thread lurking, and figured I'd chime in. We have had a hell of a time getting the SuSE amd64 based kernels to behave properly with Intel Pro 1000 cards.
We've tried: 1) ethtool for forcing speed and duplex to 100baseT Full linux # ethtool -s eth0 speed 100 duplex full autoneg off 2) mii-diag for forcing speed and duplex to 100baseT Full linux # mii-diag -F 100baseTx-FD -A 100baseTx-FD 3) passing kernel driver parameters in ...
all to no avail... the last thing we tried was booting to dos and using intels diagnostic / settings utilities to force the card to 100 full. Even that crapped out after a reboot of the box.
I think the problem may be more serious than just Auto-detection not working. We've got s2885's with a PCI-X Intel Pro 1000 card. Would like to get 2 cards working reliably but would rejoice with one working reliably.
Any other experiences with other kernels / distro's ?
Darren
I don't believe this is a kernel problem as I have several of these cards working just fine. I even have a few dual port Pro 1000 cards and a single Quad port card that appear to be working just fine at 1000Mb. I did have a few have problems at 100Mb but I fixed that by setting my switch port to 100Mb FULL instead of auto-sensing. What kind of switch are you using? I am wondering if this is a issue with some cheaper switches. But I do have a few cheap Netgear switches I have no problems with as well.
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Switch types: Cisco switches (odd assortment... 6506's and 2950's mainly) Cheap ass DLink and Linksys $50 specials I know Cisco switches and Intel Pro 1000's had problems at gigabit speeds a while back, before Intel released a patch. That's about all I've heard of for Cisco - Intel Pro 1000 problems. Anyone heard of other problems ? And yes I've tried forcing the Cisco switches to 100 Full. Darren ======================================= D. Lissimore Industrial Cyber-security http://www.bcit.ca/appliedresearch/security/ =======================================
I don't believe this is a kernel problem as I have several of these cards working just fine. I even have a few dual port Pro 1000 cards and a single Quad port card that appear to be working just fine at 1000Mb. I did have a few have problems at 100Mb but I fixed that by setting my switch port to 100Mb FULL instead of auto-sensing. What kind of switch are you using? I am wondering if this is a issue with some cheaper switches. But I do have a few cheap Netgear switches I have no problems with as well.
Brad Dameron SeaTab Software www.seatab.com
Switch types: Cisco switches (odd assortment... 6506's and 2950's mainly) Cheap ass DLink and Linksys $50 specials
I know Cisco switches and Intel Pro 1000's had problems at gigabit speeds a while back, before Intel released a patch. That's about all I've heard of for Cisco - Intel Pro 1000 problems. Anyone heard of other problems ? And yes I've tried forcing the Cisco switches to 100 Full.
Darren ======================================= D. Lissimore Industrial Cyber-security http://www.bcit.ca/appliedresearch/security/ =======================================
Just took delivery of a Netgear GS716T and 4 GS605's and they are working great with the Intel Pro 1000 NICs I have. Thanks for all the help. -Ken -- Ken Siersma, Software Engineer EKK, Inc. phone: (248) 624-9957 fax: (248) 624-7158 http://www.ekkinc.com -- "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -MLK Jr.
participants (5)
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Brad Dameron
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Darren Lissimore
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Dave Howorth
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Ken Siersma
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Mike Brown