- Alp-community-wg

Re: ALP WG Meeting minutes - July 5th 2022
by Dan Čermák 06 Jul '22

06 Jul '22

Hi Lars, Lars Vogdt <lars(a)linux-schulserver.de> writes: > Am 5. Juli 2022 15:46:29 UTC schrieb "Dan Čermák" <dcermak(a)suse.de>: >>tl;dr; Fear not, you will not be forced to download random flatpaks or >>containers from dockerhub/flathub. We (probably) just change the deliver >>method, but the packaging workflow will stay the same. > > 1) What are the advantages of flatpak/container vs RPM? Flatpaks support sandboxing when configured properly giving you greater security benefits in comparison to traditional rpms. The main benefit however is that we would be able to build certain desktop applications (e.g. Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, etc.) only on top of Tumbleweed, put them into a flatpak and distribute them to Tumbleweed, Leap and ALP users. This is something that is impossible to achieve with RPMs unless you bundle *everything* into a single RPM and even then it will probably not work. So this will save our packagers a tremendous amount of work. > 2) Will ALP still allow one 'zypper up' call to update all software (container, flatpak, rpm) on a system? > > 3) Will OBS auto-convert current rpms to flatpaks? Theoretically that could be done, but I think that's at the moment out of scope. > 4) Will there still be some kind of repo (incl. package informations like version-release, changelog, etc.) for flatpaks? > > 5) Will Yast-Software manage all these different kind of formats (container, flatpak, rpm) transparently for the enduser? I don't know what the plans of the Yast team wrt flatpaks are, but GNOME Software center supports flatpaks and rpms seamlessly. > 6) Can configuration still be expected at the usual places ($HOME/.config/ : /etc : /usr/etc/)? That depends on the flatpak, but generally flatpaks put their configuration into ~/.var/app/ > 7) Are current backups (rsync, Bareos) and configuration management (ansible, Salt) still be supported? > > 8) Will the whole delivery chain stay secure (signing of flatpaks, SSL, DNSSec, ...)? Yes. This is one of the strict requirements to ALP. > 9) Will autoyast still allow automated deployment? > > Regards, > Lars -- Dan Čermák <dcermak(a)suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Frankenstrasse 146 90461 Nürnberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director/Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman

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ALP WG Meeting minutes - July 5th 2022
by Dan Čermák 05 Jul '22

05 Jul '22

Hi everyone, we have mostly focused this week's meeting on how the ALP Desktop is going to look like and how we can dispel fears around flatpaks and containers when it comes to the ALP desktop. tl;dr; Fear not, you will not be forced to download random flatpaks or containers from dockerhub/flathub. We (probably) just change the deliver method, but the packaging workflow will stay the same. long version: Desktop in ALP (topic for next official ALP update at news-o-o) How can we dispell fears of users that we will shove containers & flatpacks down their throats: - we will use flatpak/containers as a distribution format, the packaging model will not change, only the format - the fear is not necessarily flatpaks (probably), but the fear that you'll have to pull everything from flathub/docker hub => stress out that you won't have to pull $randomStuff from the internet, you'll get audited software as you were before Questions that lkocman would ask Yi Fan on the meeting would be: * Some users are concerned that everything on their desktop will run in a container. Can you address these fears? - flatpak/containers just a distribution mechanism, packaging not going to change - ALP is still in flux, nothing set in stone - aim: provide a good desktop for a ALP but don't duplicate work for maintainers (they don't want to ship rpms & containers/flatpak) - possible solution for display manager & lower level things: https://github.com/fcrozat/gdm-container - will allow seamless updates with flatpaks installed on the host * Desktop not being part of PoC, but can we "tentatively" expect it in any snapshot after (Dec, May)? - gdm container makes good progress - good progress with Wayland issues like remote desktop (also upstream involvement) - maybe even have rough prototype in the PoC, will have more info this or next week * I'd really love to see desktop image that you simply dump to disk e.g. with self-install and first-boot wizzard that lets user to configure system. What's YiFan opinion about this? (SUSE IT wants this approach). - no concrete plans here yet - PoC will not have an installer, just a disk image will be the deliverable -> need to figure out how to run an installer or what to use here - Ancor is driving a workgroup to look into the traditional installation -> https://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=openSUSE:ALP/Workgroups/Installation * Any tips, best practices for how to start with Desktop app development (Including things like Desktop Managers like XFce, Elightenment etc) in "openSUSE ALP" (Current reference for community part of ALP based distro, based on top of "base install image of ALP"). - for info, message Yifan directly (yfjiang(a)suse.com) or the ALP matrix room https://matrix.to/#/#alp:opensuse.org - currently focusing on upstream contributions (-> GNOME upstream) - downstream contributions go into Tumbleweed - for container specific stuff, maybe later, currently too much in flux - look into building flatpaks on OBS, this will become important very soon, so get started beforehands -> help OBS handling flatpaks & container images * Preferred way to distribute apps we know there will be ALP flathub repo in OBS, I think we could have something like "Community version of it". But we should be really smart about this, as the same app could work on top of (Community) ALP as well as Tumblweed. - would be possible to create * How many desktop environments will there be for ALP? Just GNOME like with SLED? - first focus on GNOME, might consider alternatives afterwards - will learn from going with GNOME first and apply this to others later on Maybe publish the Desktop WG results to the openSUSE Wiki as well And that's it for this week, see you again next week with Luboš back in the driver seat! Cheers, Dan -- Dan Čermák <dcermak(a)suse.com> Software Engineer Development tools SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH Frankenstrasse 146 90461 Nürnberg Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Director/Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew Myers, Andrew McDonald, Boudien Moerman

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Interview with Yi Fan on next CWG meeting (after hackweek)
by Lubos Kocman 27 Jun '22

27 Jun '22

Hello team, I've invited Yi Fan to our Next ALP community WG meeting on Tuesday after hackweek. This weeks meeting is cancelled due to mentioned hackweek. However there is a problem, due to one fella who was burnt alive in 1415, CZ has a public holiday on next Tuesday/Wednesday and my wife wants to go for a trip to Prague. I originally expected to be at home and connect at 16:30 CEST, but this is no longer the case. Would you be okay, with having the interview without me? Questions that I'd ask Yi Fan on the meeting would be: * Desktop not being part of PoC, but can we "tentatively" expect it in any snapshot after (Dec, May)? * I'd really love to see desktop image that you simply dump to disk e.g. with self-install and first-boot wizzard that lets user to configure system. What's YiFan opinion about this? (SUSE IT wants this approach). * Any tips, best practices for how to start with Desktop app development (Including things like Desktop Managers like XFce, Elightenment etc) in "openSUSE ALP" (Current reference for community part of ALP based distro, based on top of "base install image of ALP"). * Preferred way to distribute apps we know there will be ALP flathub repo in OBS, I think we could have something like "Community version of it". But we should be really smart about this, as the same app could work on top of (Community) ALP as well as Tumblweed. Thoughts? Lubos

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ALP Community WG meetings will be on Tuesdays 14:30 UTC
by Lubos Kocman 23 May '22

23 May '22

Hello openSUSE! Tuesdays 16:30 CEST / 14:30 UTC will be our regular slot for regular ALP Community WG meetings. It won 12:9 on votes at https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/b68562Ve Details and how to join the meeting can be found here: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:ALP/Workgroups/Community See you tomorrow! Thank you!

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Vote for the CWG meeting slot. First ALP status report is today
by Lubos Kocman 18 May '22

18 May '22

Hello CWG! I'd like to ask you to vote for our regular meeting slot https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/b68562Ve As of now it's either existing Tuesday or Thursday community weekly session. https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/weeklymeeting We'll meet either weekly and bi-weekly. Aside from that the Adaptable Linux Platform has first status report today. Report for this week on behalf of our group is following https://etherpad.opensuse.org/p/weeklymeeting20220519#L86 Lubos

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Results from Leap Desktop Workshops
by Lubos Kocman 13 May '22

13 May '22

Hello openSUSE! Big thanks to everyone who participated on the Leap Desktop workshop on Tuesday and Thursday. I've seen many familiar faces and there were also a few new friends who are just starting with openSUSE. Both workshops slightly varied in topics which is a good thing. There was certainly an overlap with topics like brand recognition, central place for documentation, marketing, and flatpak support. I felt that Both Scott and Yi Fan from Desktop Workgroup working on the next Generation Desktop got a lot of valueable input. Big thanks to both for being with us on the workshop. Top items from both sessions are on a single *wiki page with references to original **lucidchart boards that should be accessible by everyone. I couldn't upload the exported svgs to the wiki due to 2MB upload limit (already filed a ticket for Heroes to bump it). [0] https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:ALP/Workgroups/Community/Workshops/LeapDes… [1] https://lucid.app/lucidspark/9491ef81-067a-4b7f-82c6-2a8fc2839705/edit?invi… [2] https://lucid.app/lucidspark/7a812695-e7ad-4d0e-9c33-74cdb86a92db/edit?invi…

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First!
by Lubos Kocman 12 May '22

12 May '22

Welcome to the Adaptable Linux Community Work group We're currently still in the state "FORMING". Our initial scope will be mainly communication outside, provide status on ALP to community and also initial marketing. For a start please subscribe to https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/alp-community-wg@lists.opensuse.or… And watch following page https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:ALP/Workgroups/Community Thank you Lubos

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