On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:34:35 -0400, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Jim Henderson
wrote: So, by the same logic, I should also be demanding that openSUSE not provide i586 packages, but i386 packages as well, because I have an old 33 MHz 80386 with 16 MB of RAM (which is sufficient to run a basic web server on), right? I mean really, there must be *millions* of old 80386 systems out there that *could* be running openSUSE. In fact, probably many, many more of those than systems that can't have a DVD added to them for a reasonable price.
Reasonable for people who might need it. Some might not be able to justify that expense. And I never suggested support for a 386. Just a CD version. I've seen P4 systems with CD only.
I know you never suggested support for a 386. I was saying "here's another relatively small market segment; maybe we should satisfy that as well". It's a point of comparison. I've seen P4 systems with CD only as well. I nearly purchased one. But if it were my only computer, I would still be likely to either upgrade the CD drive to a DVD, do a network-based installation (and if I didn't know how, I'd ask someone to help me), or borrow a drive if I was too poor to afford the $20 to buy a new one myself. In fact, years ago I had a 486 with no CD drive in it and I wanted to install UnixWare. I couldn't afford a CD drive at the time (the system was completely SCSI), and I did in fact borrow a SCSI CD-ROM drive from a friend so I could do the installation. The number of people who have no friends who could lend them a drive is going to be very small indeed.
You also could then experience first-hand either the success of doing something good, or better understand what it is that makes it more effort than it's worth.
Not being a programmer, I help out by Beta testing.
Same here. I can read code, and I can structure code, but my coding skills are crap for something as complicated as the kernel. I can write awk scripts and self-contained C, but nothing in C++ or anything that requires more than a cursory understanding of programming logic (well, maybe a bit more; I was a CS major in college). Point being, I'm not driven to code. That doesn't stop me suggesting solutions in code to the people who do. Not being a programmer needn't be a barrier to finding out what it would take.
And how many of those people know *nobody* who has a DVD burner? My 80- year-old mother can get a DVD burned without coming to me to do it. I know people in South Africa who have access to DVD burning technology. Saying "I don't have a DVD burner" is just an excuse. Show me *one* person who doesn't know someone with a DVD burner, and I still won't believe it.
That's not the point. Living in a rural area, I can attest that I wouldn't want to have to download an iso, put it on an external drive, and then take it to somewhere to burn it. That's what's called a hassle, and a lot of people who are just used to Windows aren't going to do that.
But you'd be OK downloading 5 or 6 ISOs to burn to a CD? I'm not following the logic here. Besides, you'd indicated you were talking about a notebook computer, surely that's portable. People who are just used to Windows aren't going to take the time to download an ISO first at all - since Winblows came with the computer, they'll just use that. The ones who go a step further and download the ISOs are very likely going to do so because someone suggested it to them and they did a little homework. My mom isn't going to say "Hmm, I wonder what this Linux thing is all about" and then proceed to download, burn, and install the product on her computer alongside or over her Windows installation. She's going to talk to people, she's going to ask for help. Most newbie users are like that - they don't make changes without knowing what they're doing because they don't want their machine to become a brick that they don't know how to recover. It seems that there are many people who think that newbies are going to shoot themselves in the head. I fear that many of those same hypothetical newbies might go out and buy firearms and not realize which way to hold the gun. Seriously, the way some act, they might just be that stupid. Fortunately, that ain't reality.
Oh, so you're talking about PPC as well. And the segment who benefits gets that much smaller.
So, since openSUSE is one of the few that actually supports Old World Macs, shall we drop that as well? Or shall we do what's neccessary to support the hardware we say it will run on? There are a lot of us who use PPC. So, we should just send that to the landfill? Is that what you are saying?
Of course not. But developing to a minority interest tends to get things that overall are more important overlooked. The beauty of OSS is that those who are in that minority interest have the power to do something about it themselves. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org