21 Nov
2000
21 Nov
'00
09:38
Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.20001121093838.00fbb4e0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:38:38 +0000 From: Samy ElashmawySubject: Re: [SLE] This is an RfC for SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH. I think you can burn a cd right off the ftp sight and use that. At 12:20 PM 11/21/2000 +0100, Cliff Sarginson wrote: >I have bought CD's in Holland, where I live, from a small >company that burns them and sells them very cheaply. >This is strictly legal. However they cannot do so with >Suse CD's because of the "pay" type software on the CD's. > >It would be nice if Suse could produce CD's that do not >contain software with licensing problems that prevent this. > >In passing I would say that here in Holland the Suse >dustribution is marketed in a very strange way. You >can buy the English Personal Edition and the English Professional >edition. You can also buy the Dutch edition. The Dutch edition >is much cheaper, and contains all of the professional edition software! >The only things different are: >-No DVD >-Staroffice is a Dutch language edition. >-The installation manual is in Dutch. > >Mysterious huh ? > >Cliff > >On Sun, Nov 19, 2000 at 08:51:27PM -0600, Timothy R. Butler wrote: >> To SuSE, Inc. and SuSE GmBH, >> I find it funny that over one month after I petitioned for a response to my Guru >> Edition proposal, I have heard nothing. Other users, indeed, have agreed with me >> that this is a product that would be useful. Pure common sense that more and more >> people have broadband internet and a cd burner alone hint at the fact that there >> is little reason for a knowledgeable user to buy a $70 distro. >> That is why I, along with other SuSE Linux users, have said that a full version >> without all the manuals and support for a dirt cheap price would be great. This is >> a win/win situation for both users and SuSE. If people like me go download SuSE >> off FTP, how much does SuSE make? Nothing. If I go spend a $20 or $30 (the price >> Linux distros should be, IMO) and buy a SuSE, how much does SuSE make? I don't >> know - but it's more than if I download SuSE. >> The moral of the story is, you can't endlessly bundle services with an open >> source product to inflate prices. Eventually, knowledgeable users will just burn >> their own CD's. However, if SuSE gives an affordable way to support SuSE's >> continued good work, but doesn't force the user to buy more than he wants - we >> both win. >> >> This is a request for comments for either SuSE division, I would greatly >> appreciate a response. >> >> Once again this is what I'm proposing: >> >> Guru Edition: >> - 6 CD's/1 DVD >> - Small 10 or 20 page booklet with errata, getting started, etc. in Jewel Case >> - Sold at retail stores (could be in section where they sell software that is >> only in a Jewel Case >> - No box, no support, just 6 CD's and 1 DVD in a Jewel case or if necessary - >> a paper CD case. >> - Sold somewhere between $20-$30 (There is no reason for it to be more, it has >> no support, no manual, and most of the software is developed around the world for >> free) >> - Could replace the current Upgrade Edition >> >> >> -Tim >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks >> Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 >> ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller >> tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com >> ===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com] >> > Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 7:37 PM >> > To: Jonathan Wilson; SuSE Mailing List >> > Subject: RE: [SLE] SuSE Needs a "Guru Edition"! (was RE: [SLE] Upgrade >> > worth it?) >> > >> > >> > Glad to hear someone else feels the same way! It seems especially critical for >> > SuSE to realize the need for this since broadband is becoming increasingly >> > popular, and those of us who don't need $50 added to the price tag for books and >> > support will be more likely to download in the future _unless_ there is >> > a cheaper >> > version with all of the power. >> > >> > Just my $0.02... >> > >> > -Tim >> > >> > PS: I believe I might signup for broadband soon, so I'll be all set for >> > downloading it. However, as I said, if there was a cheap version with 6-CD's >> > (what, less than $0.10 a piece) and a DVD without support or a manual - I'd pay >> > for it. Anyone at SuSE or other users who feel the same? >> > >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> > Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks >> > Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 >> > ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller >> > tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com >> > ===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== >> > >> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Jonathan Wilson [mailto:wilson@claborn.net] >> > > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:15 AM >> > > To: tbutler@uninetsolutions.com >> > > Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE Needs a "Guru Edition"! (was RE: [SLE] Upgrade >> > > worth it?) >> > > >> > > >> > > Same here! I'd buy every single version if it would fall to $40 or >> > > less. And I use the books less and less all the time, in fact I hardly >> > > ever look at them now. They should just make the book available online >> > > on their web site. >> > > >> > > JW >> > > >> > > At 07:48 PM 10/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >> > > >Hi Tosi, >> > > >> You don't think half a thought ? What of FOUR books ? For the price of SuSE >> > > >> Linux 7.0 Pro >> > > >> I get *ONE* book "for idiots" on Linux. What of the work of making a >> > > > >> > > > But, I don't need four books. That's fine, but I don't feel like >> > shelling out >> > > >$30 extra bucks every 4 months when all I want is the CD's. But, I >> > > have no choice, >> > > >the upgrade is just $10 less than the full thing at retail, and that >> > > savings would >> > > >be taken by the shipping and handling. >> > > > Personally, for power users, I think SuSE should take RedHat's old >> > > "Powertools" >> > > >idea, and offer a version that is just 6-cds and 1 DVD, and perhaps >> > a few page >> > > >booklet that fits in the product's jewel case. Then stamp something between >> > > >$20-$35 on the case and call it "SuSE 7.1 Guru Edition" or something >> > like that. >> > > > The fact is, I wouldn't mind buying ever single version of SuSE, but >> > > I won't do >> > > >it for $60-$70 a wack. However, if SuSE had that "Guru Edition", >> > SuSE probably >> > > >would probably have a higher profit margin on that version than the >> > Pro edition >> > > >(since it lacks manuals and support), and they would also sell more to "SOHO" >> > > >users like myself. Infact, I probably won't buy another copy of SuSE >> > > as it stands >> > > >for at least a year and a half [can't justify $70 for small >> > upgrades], but I'd >> > > >gladly pay $25, say, for every version of the bookless version. >> > > > Another benefit for SuSE on such a version would be the fact that >> > > Broadband is >> > > >increasingly popular. If I had broadband I would be inclined to just download >> > > >SuSE, but I still might ***buy*** it if it's going for $25. >> > > > >> > > > Just my $0.02... >> > > > >> > > > -Tim >> > > > >> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > >Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks >> > > >Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 >> > > >ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller >> > > >tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com >> > > >===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> USER-FRIENDLY install- >> > > >> process ? That takes a large amount of work, and does cost a lot >> > of money if >> > > >> you're paying >> > > >> someone to do it for you. And what about a supportline ? Slackware >> > has to my >> > > >> knowledge NONE, >> > > >> and neither do *BSD ( not counting usenet and post-lists ) I think SuSE are >> > > >> walking in the >> > > >> middle of that narrow yellow-brick road between rough-cut ( Slackware etc ) >> > > >> and overpriced >> > > >> ( RedHat ), and doing so with style. >> > > >> >> > > >> -tosi >> > > >> >> > > >> -----Original Message----- >> > > >> From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com] >> > > >> Sent: 11. október 2000 22:24 >> > > >> To: SuSE Mailing List >> > > >> Subject: RE: [SLE] Upgrade worth it? >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> Hi there, >> > > >> I thought I'd add a little something into my rant from last week. FreeBSD >> > > >> is not >> > > >> only cheaper but comes with 2,000 packages (the extra 6 CD's) on top of the >> > > >> main >> > > >> distribution packages (first 4 CD's). >> > > >> Now, I can't attest to the quality or the ease-of-use of FreeBSD, >> > nor would >> > > >> I >> > > >> want to switch from Linux, but that means two of the "other" guys (FreeBSD >> > > >> along >> > > >> with Slackware) both offer comparable amounts of stuff for less money. And, >> > > >> if >> > > >> ease of use is the excuse, once again, look at Windows ME Quick Jump for >> > > >> Windows >> > > >> 98 at just $49 (at stores). >> > > >> >> > > >> I'll quit ranting for now, but I still can't understand why SuSE is >> > > >> suddenly >> > > >> worth so much more (30-40 $ is a big big hike)... >> > > >> >> > > >> Still ranting at the fact that open source ain't cheap any more... >> > > >> >> > > >> -Tim >> > > >> >> > > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > >> Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks >> > > >> Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 >> > > >> ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller >> > > >> tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com >> > > >> ===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > > >> > From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com] >> > > >> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:11 PM >> > > >> > To: SuSE Mailing List >> > > >> > Subject: [SLE] Upgrade worth it? >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Hi again, >> > > >> > I know, I know, I'm posting about the Upgrade pricing (again), >> > but I was >> > > >> > wondering if the Upgrade situation will improve. I noticed that >> > on the web >> > > >> site, >> > > >> > SuSE Pro 7.0 Upgrade is $49.95 plus Shipping and Handling, however I've >> > > >> seen the >> > > >> > full release for only ten bucks more ($59). As you can figure, if you >> > > >> > buy the full >> > > >> > one for $59 at the store, you aren't going to save much (if any) buying >> > > >> the >> > > >> > upgrade for $49 + S&H. So my question is, once SuSE realizes that the >> > > >> upgrade's >> > > >> > price isn't saving anybody anything, and comes with _less_ than the >> > > >> > full release, >> > > >> > will they make the price more sensible? >> > > >> > Before when I asked about prices, I know it was my opinion vs. someone >> > > >> else's, >> > > >> > but I don't understand this. I'm sure SuSE _knew_ that most stores >> > > >> > would charge at >> > > >> > least $10 less than MSRP (as usual), and yet they priced the upgrade high >> > > >> enough >> > > >> > that it is virtually useless to even offer here. Did anyone else notice >> > > >> this? >> > > >> > >> > > >> > I might add, usually upgrades are a substantial price difference. If >> > > >> nothing >> > > >> > else, it would be nice if each version came with a coupon to upgrade for >> > > >> $30-$40 >> > > >> > to the next release (when released). That way new customers would pay the >> > > >> full >> > > >> > price, but loyal buy-every-version customers would get a deal. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Case and point: >> > > >> > >> > > >> > MS Windows Millenium Edition ARP (Average Retail Pricing): $189 >> > > >> > MS Windows Millenium Edition Upgrade ARP: $89.95 >> > > >> > MS Windows Millenium Edition Quick Jump ARP: $49.95 >> > > >> > >> > > >> > As you can see, since Windows 98 to ME's features were nearly the >> > > >> > same (similar >> > > >> > to how SuSE 6.4 and 7.0 are nearly the same, from what I hear), >> > > >> > Microsoft offered >> > > >> > Windows 98 users (loyal buy-every-version customers) a really cheap >> > > >> > version. Quick >> > > >> > Jump retails for 1/4 of the full version's price, and nearly 1/2 of even >> > > >> the >> > > >> > upgrade's price. >> > > >> > While it can be said this is different, it is not. Microsoft sees that >> > > >> the >> > > >> > difference between 98 and ME isn't enough to get everyone to pay even >> > > >> > $89 for it, >> > > >> > so they offer customers who have bought 98 or 98 SE a cheaper version. >> > > >> > To me, this >> > > >> > is ideal for Linux distros too, since generally there is little >> > > >> > version-to-version >> > > >> > change, but slow accumulative change. Enclosing an offer, as I said >> > > >> before, >> > > >> > allowing say 6.4 users-only to go to 7.0 for say $29-$39 would be great. >> > > >> > >> > > >> > Just my $0.02, adding up to over $1.00 since I've already >> > thown in a lot >> > > >> of >> > > >> > $0.02 on the issue... >> > > >> > >> > > >> > -Tim >> > > >> > >> > > >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > >> > Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks >> > > >> > Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 >> > > >> > ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller >> > > >> > tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com >> > > >> > ===================== "Solutions that Work" ===================== >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > -- >> > > >> > To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com >> > > >> > For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com >> > > >> > Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> -- >> > > >> To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com >> > > >> For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com >> > > >> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> -- >> > > >> To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com >> > > >> For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com >> > > >> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >-- >> > > >To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com >> > > >For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com >> > > >Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com >> > For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com >> > Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com >> For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com >> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq > >-- >To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com >For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com >Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq > >