Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Creating a group of conserned Users and Novell partners/longer life time for openSUSE... (LONG POST)
  • From: alpha096@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:26:43 +1000
  • Message-id: <4A85D693.6040408@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
Hello,

With the annoucement today.

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2009-08/msg00009.html

that openSUSE is on a 18 month cycle, maybe we need to form a group...

The thought is that a possible out come of this group maybe an openSLE
which would be like this model

fedora->centos->RHEL

but for SUSE
-SLES
openSUSE->openSLE->SLE-|
-SLED

This is from the end of the project meeting.
I hope the boat has not sailed already and it is too late.
I am not quite sure about adding yet another trail of slightly different
versions.
I would be happy with the following, but for nothing, to gain more
valuable media space that is under huge threat now
We can also spin this a lot better for the commercial client.

openSLES-> SLED
openSLED-> SLES

I would believe from a distribution point, the original proposed
increased versions would be;
far greater in resources to maintain
far greater from the development point to package and not intermix
modules in various CPU dependant hardware
would do nothing, with the exception of creating yet another buffer, for
bugs to be found, before we offer the commercial product
far greater in mastering, presentation and consumables
mass confusion in a great deal of users, they are confused enough

My thoughts from what I have heard from talks with clients, IRC chats,
and misc.

WARNING (This is my honest view/perception and is not politically
correct)

1. Many small business owners/small companies feel there is a lack of
attention to their needs from Novell. That is to say Novell only
listens to "Monster Enterprise Clients"

Solution: We form a group that combined has equivelant $$$ behind it
to warrent attention.
An alternative solution, may be to gather those same $$$ into just
fixing the bugs a commercial client reports themselves or via support and
to put the screws on production to demand a higher quality output in the
first instance together with everyone in development having only
the current RC of opensuse.x installed on their PC with default login
managers. It is so obvious that development
do not use the product as we ship it OR spend the life with a command
prompt on the screen and innumerable variations customised to the
developer. Do this and we wont see half the bugs in ALPHA or BETA or RC
or Commercial.

2. Many resent replies from Novell people (although it is just their
opinion) through the various mediums treat SMB's and their staff as
idiots. It comes off as if it comes from arrogant 20-something know
it alls dictating what the community has to do. To quote some CEO's
and COO... "The SUSE/Novell people act like a bunch arrogant
20-something ... that treat us and are staff like idiots.) SMB's have
to contribute more time/money/resources to keep openSUSE going. (Why
should we when we are treated like idiots)?

Solution: Better communitcation. Some signs of improvement, but a
strong feeling of being dictated, rather than lead"

Solution: Perform!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
I have never read such a more true and accurate understanding of the
Nature of Business at Novell.de and Suse.DE
and its absolutely correct, however in this time of being Politically
Correct, I am glad some one has actually articulated these words.
This type of working culture starts at the top and works its way to the
bottom - I suggest we fix the TOP!

Do a search on Bugzilla for all bugs marked as WONTFIX and lay down the
law that a developer does not have the ability to remove any
functionality already in product, unless it compromises the Kernel or
Resources.
For every WONTFIX - The reason for this closure item must be written
into the bug report in text and justified and each development manager MUST
sign of on them

Another solution would be to open 'Yast' and 'Gnome' 'Xorg' up for user
bugs and Enhancements and FATE. It does not take a genius to work out that
both of these areas are closed shops as bugs/enhancements to any of the
above most often result in CLOSED/WONTFIX. Its not rocket science to do
a simple search in theses areas.

3. They are really concerned "OpenSUSE distro is moving toward just a
desktop Ubunto clone. They are ignoreing what was there bigest
strength. Providing a Polished First Class Stable Server with
necessary Desktop fetures."

Solution: This could be solved by openSLE (A openSUSE centos like
clone as refered in the above example).
Solution. Release a products that is more included to work, this means
lowering bugs and 'fixed bugs' directly out of development to ZERO
With upper hundreds of number of bugs, we are NOT going to produce a
"Providing a Polished First Class Stable Server with necessary Desktop
features"

The first Agenda Item for Project Managers Meetings, is static, its
always BUGS/RFC/ETC.. Numbers, classifications, how many last week and
how many this week, NO reduction? - FIX THE SITUATION and set targets!
People are happy at the moment just to have a job!

4. "Tired of hearing we do this for fun, it is not my
problem/responsibility, hire a programmer or become one." "Fix it
yourself as it is a community distro. The community is not doing
enough or is too small." What happens is or feels like the various
groups that are part of the community are not fully trusted. What I
see/feel/hear is that globally the openSUSE distro is moving to the
bottom of the Linux Distro Heap. I am being asked to move to CentOS
as it has a longer support window. "Having to update my OS every 2
years is a real pain in the butt! Now it is moving to a 18 month
window. I really need to look at something else that meets my needs"
Business like to stay as long as they are able to the release. "If it
aint broke don't fix it!" "We really need a fall back position. What
are your recommendations? Doesn't Novell realize who pays their
salaries? What about Ubunto, Debian, Fedora/CentOS, or Solaris, BSDs?"

Solution: Have the openSUSE->openSLE->SLES/SLED path available.

Alternative, we have multiple RC's until we get it good enough for
market. All calendars indicating a target release date
for next version should be burned. We save so much
time/man-hours/production/printing costs to stop this ridiculous waste
of money and version number for no functional gain and a few bugs fixed,
as the case currently is.
Service Packs are O.K, but unfortunately with the massive amount of
things that do not work, I think we may need to have more than one RC of
a version shipped to market! We just need to hold onto our hats to make
sure the upgrade/update works without destroying as much as in the past.

At some of the event I and others I talk with have attended it is
often asked "Why doesn't Novell offer an opneSLE alternitive?" People
using the fedora->CentOS->RHEL talk of how many of the business they
support move this route to become RHEL customers. I think we (being
the SUSE prefered" really would benefit from a similar path. That is
why I am trying to somehow get a group organized. So we are able to
have our voice heard at the higher levels of Novell.

Thanks for reading this. I propose using the Freenode IRC
#opensuse-server channel and either of the lists in the CC. to further
discuss this idea and form a group.

Thank you,
......and that's my user dummy spit and suggestions for now and I think
there will be many to come and they will NOT be so nice, my post will
pale into insignificance, once the ball gets rolled out.
Thanks for reading such a long post and thanks to the original author
who told it the way it is!
Scott


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