On Mon, 04 May 2009 19:19:39 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno lun, 04/05/2009 alle 22.54 +0000, Jim Henderson ha scritto:
invoking Godwin's law here), I think we could all agree that naming a release "Hitler" would be just a bit of a problem for much the same reasons.
I don't think anybody disagrees on this. But I think the difference between the names is very clear too.
It may be to you and me, but I'm not (and I assume you're not, but I don't know) part of the group that was affected by the shared ideologies of the two individuals in question.
mean that it's appropriate (in my view) to completely disregard opinions and viewpoints that may be valid, either and just say "deal with it."
Well, certain colours has or had a political meaning. Some has a ratial connotation in a certain context. Just think to the very elementary example of black and red. The fact that we feel them far from us doesn't really mean someone could not be "offended".
Sure, but I think there's a world of difference between the name of a colour and the proper name of someone who was any particular ideological bent.
Opinions has to be heard, taken into account, but not necessarily accepted.
I don't disagree with that, in fact I wrote something to that effect in an earlier reply. :-)
I hope that never happens - the day it does is the day the distro ceases to be a community-driven distro.
No, that would be the day the distro will show a plan, in the common interest, and not exposed to the opinions of a few (I'm not simply referring to the codenames topic, which is irrelevant). The difference sounds really evident.
Well, I've already stated my opinion. A plan is formed by the project leaders and IMHO is accepted or not by the community. If the project leaders want the project to grow, the perspectives of all members of the community are considered and weighed. As you and I both said, opinions have to be heard and taken into account. Then the views are incorporated or not into the overall plan. So I reiterate: the day the project stops listening to multiple points of view from the community is the day the project stops being a community- driven project.
But as I often point out to customers (and friends) at work, just because a decision doesn't go your way doesn't mean it wasn't listened to, either. Just because people express opinions doesn't mean giving in to every little demand for a change, either. But it does mean considering the point of view and making an informed decision - and being willing to say "gee, we didn't consider that and it was a mistake to move forward" when a mistake has been made.
Right. We are essentially saying the same thing. ;-)
I find I have this habit of being in violent agreement with others. ;-)
Not saying a mistake has been made, just providing an alternate point of view.
Well, you are somewhat saying that. Maybe the 11.2 codename wasn't the most pondered choice of this world, surely it's not the most important choice people at openSUSE have to take for the distribution, but someone on forums stretched it far too much, considering himself "offended" and thinking the choice was done "on purpose". That's not expressing an opinion...
I saw that discussion on the forums, and I do agree that in all likelihood it wasn't intended to offend anyone. But at the same time, as a community we do deal with both geeks and non-geeks alike. I commented in an earlier discussion (the one on the users list that resulted in the bugbuster discussion) about the "tact filter" people use when communicating, and when you start mixing people with their tact filter set to inbound and people who have their tact filter set to outbound, you end up with misunderstandings and the core message gets lost because the messenger did a poor job of framing their complaint. My guess is that the person who raised it on the forums was probably not filtering outbound, but the initial response came from someone who doesn't filter inbound. So while no offense was meant, the original complaint was worded extremely strongly in order to get their point across, and the point ended up getting lost in the hyperbole of the message. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org