On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:28:19 +0200, Simon Lees wrote:
On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 16:12:06 +0200, Yamaban wrote:
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 14:55, Simon Lees wrote:
On 09/06/2015 09:58 PM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 14:09:30, Simon Lees wrote: > On 09/06/2015 06:35 PM, Takashi Iwai wrote: >> On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 09:37:00, Simon Lees wrote: [snip] > The problem is minimal X could be one of several minimal window > managers, so often its used to setup prior to installing the minimal > DE/window manager that you really want, granted most people doing this > are probably capable of editing config files. How often does it happen, except for Enlightment installation? In other words, isn't it the better direction to allow proper Enlightment installation from the beginning? From a 5 minute search of the 13.2 repo's the following window managers were available with no menu option i3, twm, openbox, WindowMaker, fvwm, mate. There could be more I only looked for 5 minutes, there are also a bunch of others on obs that aren’t officially part of the release such as lxqt. I'm not sure how many of these are in frequent use, personally I use twm in VM's alot. > The other point here is > lightdm isn't really much heavier then xdm but provides more features. Does it work without gtk or qt? Currently it requires one or the other but not both (users choice), maybe that does make it to heavy for some, but there are probably not to many people running X11, that don't have atleast 1 Qt or gtk app.
Takashi Simon Unavoidable QT-App: Yast2 Most-likely GTK-App: Firefox or Thunderbird. "Most-likely" doesn't mean "mandatory".
So, "minium X11" implies basic QT and basic GTK. Please do not pull wool over your own eyes. Truth will not change by being ignored.
Xdm is missing some features that lightdm has and also the otherway round. Neither is "complete", but then, has ssdm gotten that domain feature, yet? The feature completeness is never a goal for "minimal X" pattern. "minimal" X is meant to be minimal. You can of course bottom up from that point, but it doesn't justify to make it fat from the start.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not ignoring the problem Simon suggested. My opinion is to go for the first option. It's the right way. The second solution looks easier, but it's against the concept of minimal X already. It's nothing but a workaround aimed for a completely different goal.
That said, what's missing is the proper default DM choice semantics. We should rather leave the default $DISPLAYMANAGER in /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager to an empty string. If it's empty, OS chooses the right one depending on the installation. Only if it's set explicity, the given DM is used. In that way, the already installed system (that has already $DISPLAYMANAGER set) won't be affected by this change at all.
Each DM package would provide some priority value so that it can be chosen in an appropriate order. Or, just make xdm as the second-class DM, and let other DM try at first if $DISPLAYMANAGER is empty. This is a good point as atleast the enlightenment pattern and xfce
On 09/07/2015 02:00 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote: pattern include the X11 pattern so its likely that xdm will end up installed.
I thought XFCE takes lightdm as default? Need to check the fresh installation again. Not sure about LXCE...
Now I talked with Stefan Dirsch about this, and we basically agree with the improvement on the default DM behavior. He thinks it's YaST who sets this value explicitly, not the packages. Currently, the default value of $DISPLAYMANAGER set in /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager is "xdm" in the package xdm itself. We may change this to empty and change the fallback logic appropriately, supposing that minimal X pattern doesn't rewrite this value. Then Enlightment or whatever inherits from minimal X can simply install lightdm on its top. Meanwhile, for KDE, GNOME and others where YaST sets the value, the behavior won't be changed by this action, so it's fairly safe.
In anyway, this is a thing to be discussed / evaluated over FATE. I'm going to open a new request. Let's continue discussing there.
thanks,
Takashi Sounds like a good plan, can you post a link once its open? I am not
On 09/07/2015 10:21 PM, Takashi Iwai wrote: that familiar with FATE. Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org