Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (723 mails)

[Boyd Lynn Gerber <gerberb@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Joseph M. Gaffney wrote:
> On Thursday 09 March 2006 09:02, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 09, 2006 at 14:39:38, Marcus Meissner wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 09, 2006 at 02:36:34PM +0100, Burkhard Carstens wrote:
> > > > Am Donnerstag, 9. März 2006 14:02 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
> > > > > On Thursday, March 09, 2006 at 12:31:08, Burkhard Carstens wrote:
> > > > > > Ahm, zmd.exe? ZenUpdater.exe? You are kidding, right?
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow. We must do a really good job if everything you have to complain
> > > > > about are file suffixes ;-)
> > > >
> > > > not sure .. currently, yast software installation is broken (again)
> > > > because libblocxx.so.4 is gone ..
> > Hehe there you go. I knew it! We are not perfect. Damn! ;-)
> > > > However, once, Borland decided to drop Kylix and went the .net way.
> > > > That was the point, where I stopped buying Borland products. Now suse
> > > > is going the .net way and guess what? I won't buy any suse product
> > > > anymore ..
> > Why would you do that? I understand you dont like .net. What makes you
> > say that "suse is going the .net way"? Because one functionality of a
> > gazillion functionalities in SUSE products is implemented in C#/mono?
> Yes.  Its not just one way either, I could see this becoming a trend.  I'm not 
> a fan of mono or .net,  and not because of an NIH mentality.  I don't like it 
> for many reasons, but one of them is the lack of a qt-sharp (yes there *was* 
> development on this outside the project, but it has been dropped).  There are 
> many other reasons listed further down, but I don't like gnome/gtk, and I 
> would prefer to stay as far away from it as possible.

I do see this as a trend that is starting to happen.  I love UNIX/Linux 
because it is UNIX/Linux.  I hate the assosiation of extentions with being 
able to execute them.  I do not think it is the NIH mentality.  I think it 
is that Novell is becoming a MS wanta-be.  I have always gone for Novell 
and UNIX/Linux because of the innovation and trends to be imaginative.  MS 
does not invovate they beg, borrow, and destroy.  The inovation is in 
gobling up companies/innovations and destroying them.  I look at FOX Base, 
and other technologies.  MS took what they wanted and destroyed the 
UNIX/Linux base.  I love the freedom of choice that has always been with 
UNIX/Linux.  I prefer the open development to closed.  I really applauded 
Novell for is movement to Linux inside the company.  I am just afraid that 
the innovation is going to become that of the MS mentality.
 
> If this move is the beginning of a trend, in combination with the 
> evolution/mono/gnome on the corp desktop general migration to a more gnome 
> & .net focused distro, I will put slack or arch or some such on my systems in 
> a heartbeat.

I can see a standard base but to force us to a mono/.net focus is wrong.  
It should be independent and a generic library easy to use in any of the 
desired formats.  I am waiting to see if this will become more generic and 
not mono/gnome/what_ever based.  To me that has been the main reason I 
have been with SUSE so long.  This beta of the ZENUpdate and the 
reprocussions of this switch in what I am begining to feel as philosophy 
change concerns me.  I want the distro based on Open Standards that are 
set and firm.  If they change they change by standards changes.  Not 
dependent on any one company.  Like with ODF.

> > > > Like Azerion also stated, "exe is related to windows/virus in my mind"
> > > > and, even worse, it's related to mici-schrott, so ..
> > You must have better reasons to not like something. Otherwise its a
> > rather dull statement that you hate microsoft. I like that from a
> > emotional perspective. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. We
> > against them. Youre my brother in arms. We will overthrow the big evil.
> >
> > But from a rational point of view its a poor argument to base technical
> > decisions on.
> 
> Not really.  having an 'exe' goes against the very nature of linux, where any 
> file can be executable, regardless of extension - it merely needs to be set 
> as such.

+1
 
> I find, in a similar way, the use of a .exe extension as the beginnings of a 
> migration towards a more microsoft-style linux distro.  If I wanted that, I'd 
> use linspire.  Note that I do not use linspire.  Anywhere.

Exactly.
 
> > > > Anyway, what's the point in using .net software? I must admit, that I
> > > > don't know much about it, because when it popped up, it was called
> > > > "microsoft.net" which convinced me that it couldn't be good ..
> > The points are layed out at mono-project.com. Do you have to agree with
> > them? No! Do you have to like them? No! Do you have to support them? No!
> > Do you have to accept that its there and that other people agree, like,
> > support mono? Yes, im sorry, you have to. Its their choice :)
> Accept it? Sure.  However, its kind of offensive to me to be using .net, for 
> patent issues, among being an MS controlled environment.  For example, what 
> would happen if MS decides to go after mono? What if later .Net 
> implementations break usage on non-MS OS's?  
> 
> Anything you can code for .net can be done in C++.  C++ is a portable, 
> standardized, and known format - .net can change without anyone's consent.
> 
> We need to stop copying complete garbage from MS, and do original items that 
> are better.  I'm getting sick of this "it worked for them, lets do the same!" 
> mentality.  Linux isn't thriving because it copies functionality, it thrives 
> because of innovative *new* ideas.  So ffs, we need to stop copying MS just 
> because MS did it.

+2
 
Let Novell/SUSE be great for inovation and imagination not following MS...

Thanks for reading my rant.  This is a very charged topic for me!

--
Boyd Gerber <gerberb@xxxxxxxxx>
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