On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 02:36 +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Bryen M. Yunashko
wrote: Hi folks,
There's been a bit of noise in the past couple of months advocating a merge of both the artwork mailing list and artwork IRC channel along with the multimedia list into the marketing channel/list.
Hi,
While I believe that multimedia and artwork could be folded into a new possible opensuse-design with a responsible leader to work alongside and coordinate efforts with marketing, I would never merge artwork and multimedia with marketing.
Perhaps you misread the subject line, but the line is "mailing lists" not teams. This discussion is not about merging teams. The discussion is about merging a place where all voices are seen rather than the disintegration we've seen in the past year. Too many people are complaining that they don't know which mailing list to sign up to because everything is so spread out. Too many times, we tell people "If you want to know about this, go here. If you want to know about that, go there." It's become too daunting and intimidating to many newcomers.
Many feel that we're too spread out and thus not hearing enough or being aware of what everyone is doing. As such, that means it becomes harder to build momentum to grow our community. Worse yet, when not merged properly, we create duplication of efforts.
Could you please provide a thread that represents such claims, so we can have an objective view on what 'many' really means and what the ideas expressed are, so we can actually take a serious look at it?
It is repeated comment and discussion topic that has been brought up a number of times in -project meetings, -board meetings, -marketing meetings and even in IRC channels when there are no meetings. And in many of those discussions, even artwork team members have been present. I would advise you to pore through the meeting logs for at a minimum the past 4 months, though its really been brought up even before then.
About community growth, so a monolithic stack merging completly different lists will make it more attractive to new contributors?
I would argue that before the artwork mailing list was split off there was a great deal of artwork discussions on the marketing list where it used to be. And a lot of good collaboration and interested folks participating. Looking at the archives for the artwork mailing list, you can see that the noise has dropped considerably since the splitoff. We'd like to combine and re-start that noise decibel level again.
Or would just center more power in the hands of a few hand picked ?
What power are you referring to? All that is proposed is a merging of the mailing lists. Nothing said at ALL about merging teams. How are you able to infer something that wasn't even brought up in this thread? This is a silly attempt to create controversy where none existed. In the past these mailing lists were all together and then it got split off in the last year and people are saying in retrospect, maybe this wasn't the wisest thing to do because now we're unable to keep higher track of what's going on everywhere. Too many mailing lists = less awareness and involvement. At least once a month, sometimes more, many of us who are even long-timers have been surprised to discover yet another mailing list or channel that we didn't know was in existence because far too often we keep spreading and splitting when there's clear overlap of topics in many areas.
However, before we do any merging, I have stated clearly to others that the ultimate decision rests with the artwork team. I am definitely in favor of a merge, but would like to hear your thoughts in the next few days about the pros and cons of merging together.
It sounds that the decision is already taken. I make Jos words mine now... "You are killing openSUSE".
Funny how you interpret things. Immediately after my paragraph in which I state that the decision to merge rests solely on the artwork team, you state the decision is already made? Seriously, Nelson. Why are you attempting to stifle discussion? Are you really anti-community to the point that you don't want people to discuss pros and cons? No one made any decision. No where is it stated that such a decision has been made. People in various teams and meetings have brought this topic up consistently and recently asked me to accept the action item to bring it up for discussion amongst the three mailing lists and see where things go from there. No one in any of these teams is saying "We're going to merge whether you like it or not." What's killing openSUSE isn't the open discussion that we're attempting to create here, but your diabolical attempt to stifle open discussions. At first I assumed maybe you misread because English isn't your native language. But considering conversations I've had with you and I know you have an excellent handle on the English language in addition to recent comments you made in -pt channel which were quite libelous, I can only assume you are attempting to misguide readers here into thinking this thread is something other than what is stated in the original post to serve your own personal satisfaction of only discussions that meet your approval are allowed to be conducted. I sincerely hope people ignore the rhetoric that you are creating here and focus squarely on the request to discuss the pros and cons of such a merge. If the artwork team feels such a merge would prove unproductive, then we will recognize that. If you are opposed to a merge of the mailing lists, I (as well as others) respect it. And we'd love to hear your opinions as to why it should be so. But attempts to derail discussions and change the focus of the topic to something completely off-the-wall can't possibly garner respect. If you feel that discussions should not be allowed, then feel free to state that unequivocally instead of couching it in an attempt to start a flamewar by misdirecting other readers of this thread. Bryen
Thanks! Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Marketing Team
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