My old desktop computer died in such a way that I'm faced with complete reinstall(s) on its replacement, multi-boot including openSuSE 10.2, starting from new disks, new everything. Core 2 Quad CPU. In searching the Net for advice on an optimum disk layout, all I've succeeded in doing is confuse myself in trying to come to terms with the often contradictory advice out there. Given that space will not be a problem of itself (two SATA 320 GB disks, non-RAID), what layout would make sense? I want to do individual partitions for /, /boot, and /home; but what about others? What about /usr, or /var? What are the plusses and minuses involved (a lot of Net afficionados refer to these but don't explain what they are)? Opinions or advice will be gratefully received. Thank you. -- Robin Klitscher Wellington "Harbour City", NZ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-09-19 at 12:43 +1200, Robin Klitscher wrote:
Given that space will not be a problem of itself (two SATA 320 GB disks, non-RAID), what layout would make sense? I want to do individual partitions for /, /boot, and /home; but what about others? What about /usr, or /var? What are the plusses and minuses involved (a lot of Net afficionados refer to these but don't explain what they are)?
Opinions or advice will be gratefully received. Thank you.
There is a discussion of this in the SuSE admin book - I forget the correct name now, but you have the rpm - if you don't find the piece, I'll try to find a link to the chapter I mean tomorrow. You don't really need those partitions if you don't know why you would need them ;-) However, you can get some speed gain by having, say, / in one disk and /usr in other, or by having the swap space distributed on both disks (same priority). Then, If you have a web/ftp server, you might think of separating /srv to its own partition (same motivation as for /home). There are many considerations for doing such things, but normally there is no need; unless you know you need them, in which case you wouldn't be asking - which is another way of saying what I wrote two paragraphs above ;-) You can simply leave space unpartitioned and decide later. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD4DBQFG8HgxtTMYHG2NR9URAj3gAJ4nJfhiTINegn4wPDhatDdx877iHQCXWI6N 8ngqPIsTFGwkQj5S14uRdA== =i/+E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 18 September 2007 20:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
You can simply leave space unpartitioned and decide later.
That is what, I would guess, most of experienced users do for general purpose systems. *** Separating some stuff to other partitions is beneficial for some use cases. /boot One partition for that directory alone seems not very useful. If you have multiple installations that use same /boot it will be a lot of work to keep it healthy, so you will probably not mount it under /boot. Room on hard disks is no problem today, so using one installation of operating system as default place for bootloader files can give you boot and rescue system in one. /home will allow to install new distro version and have all your settings transferred with minimum effort, but it can be source of problems: - if application settings are too different, - if default user numeric ID is changed, than it has to be fixed manually - not good for different distros, for both of above reasons, though if one uses different users for different distros than at least it is easy to access files that belong to other users as partition is already mounted. /home/user/Documents will allow to have all user work instantly available in any installation, but only KDE applications have this directory as default for data. Most of others default to $HOME and one has to direct them manually to use Documents. /tmp /var /usr will prevent system to lock due to lack of space, if they grow too much, but that is not easy to achieve on desktop. User has to ignore warnings before it happens. Servers are different story. The other benefit to separate them is that basic system does not fragment so much and it is faster. Although, the base system is installed first, and after that is added the rest, so the base system will be more or less compact even after adding and removing packages that use /usr, creating and removing temporary files, changing files in /var. *** But... Having multiple partitions is more work to plan sizes, maintain the system, add them to new installed system specially if it is different distribution. One can experience strange problems if one program attempts to use same name cache or database in /var that is common for few of them. The command rpm comes as an example. *** So, I would use openSUSE default. It seems good for desktop use. At least all installation scripts know about it and installing and removing packages will not involve manual work. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-09-18 at 22:42 -0500, Rajko M. wrote: ...
But... Having multiple partitions is more work to plan sizes, maintain the system, add them to new installed system specially if it is different distribution. One can experience strange problems if one program attempts to use same name cache or database in /var that is common for few of them. The command rpm comes as an example.
There is another problem coming: the new limit of no more than 15 partitions per ata disk (pata and sata) :-( I like using several partitions for my system: /boot, /home, /usr, /usr/local, /usr/src, /opt, /data, /cryptodata... plus partitions for "the competition", tests systems; partitions for some programs, like vmware dedicated partition, another for amule or similar.... I'm well over the 15 limit.
So, I would use openSUSE default. It seems good for desktop use. At least all installation scripts know about it and installing and removing packages will not involve manual work.
It shouldn't. The only problem I have is that during system update, Yast sometimes forgets to mount all needed partitions and may run out of space unless I take action. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFG8NrKtTMYHG2NR9URAnpYAJ4vOKV3MU7SfnkLmcQ0E7Om4mRTQACdEf6V iKR4xHPYTA7yIt4AsYzIYUg= =yTOu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2007-09-18 at 22:42 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 18 September 2007 20:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
You can simply leave space unpartitioned and decide later. But... Having multiple partitions is more work to plan sizes, maintain the system, add them to new installed system specially if it is different distribution. One can experience strange problems if one program attempts to use same name cache or database in /var that is common for few of them. The command rpm comes as an example.
So, I would use openSUSE default. It seems good for desktop use. At least all installation scripts know about it and installing and removing packages will not involve manual work.
I disagree with that, even in multi-boot systems, several *nix would maintain their own knowledge of their unique partitions, based on their own copy of fstab. You would have to purposefully force one distro to mount say a common /tmp PARTITION to get any corruption or "cross-talk" problems. In addition to the other layouts mentioned, I always have /usr on one drive, and /usr/lib on a second. Programs LOAD measurably faster, sourced from two physical drive units. But I never "cross-link" any partitions between my 9.3 and 10.2 versions...other than "local" storage partitions /local, /graphic, /data, and /kids that contain "work" files. Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-09-19 at 07:22 -0600, Tom Patton wrote:
In addition to the other layouts mentioned, I always have /usr on one drive, and /usr/lib on a second. Programs LOAD measurably faster, sourced from two physical drive units.
Sometimes I moved /usr, sometimes I moved /opt. Nowdays /opt is becoming less important. Which one do you put in the same drive as /, the /usr or the /usr/lib partition? I'm curious. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFG8TJqtTMYHG2NR9URAucDAJ9RPkMlWW189hN2zYuRBdvn7xqJ4wCfYsQ5 khwRaUh8ykSZE1d1XPG/M5A= =46Jb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 16:30 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Wednesday 2007-09-19 at 07:22 -0600, Tom Patton wrote:
In addition to the other layouts mentioned, I always have /usr on one drive, and /usr/lib on a second. Programs LOAD measurably faster, sourced from two physical drive units.
Sometimes I moved /usr, sometimes I moved /opt. Nowdays /opt is becoming less important.
Which one do you put in the same drive as /, the /usr or the /usr/lib partition? I'm curious. My /usr/lib and / are on the same drive currently.
sda contains /boot, /opt, /srv, /tmp, /var, swap, and /home plus two partitions used in raid arrays sdb contains /, /local, and /usr/lib, plus two partitions for the raid arrays. I am using one raid for /usr and the other for /data1, which contains mostly topo maps and terrain data files, mysql database sets, and the working directory for Cinelerra renders. Tom -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Wednesday 2007-09-19 at 12:43 +1200, Robin Klitscher wrote:
Given that space will not be a problem of itself (two SATA 320 GB disks, non-RAID), what layout would make sense? I want to do individual partitions for /, /boot, and /home; but what about others? What about /usr, or /var? What are the plusses and minuses involved (a lot of Net afficionados refer to these but don't explain what they are)?
Opinions or advice will be gratefully received. Thank you.
There is a discussion of this in the SuSE admin book - I forget the correct name now, but you have the rpm - if you don't find the piece, I'll try to find a link to the chapter I mean tomorrow.
That section is so outdated it's not even funny. It's written as if 2 GB of disk space is something only wildly profitable corporations would buy.
You don't really need those partitions if you don't know why you would need them ;-)
BAD advice. So if I don't know why something is under the hood of my car, I should just take it off of my engine????
However, you can get some speed gain by having, say, / in one disk and /usr in other, or by having the swap space distributed on both disks (same priority). Then, If you have a web/ftp server, you might think of separating /srv to its own partition (same motivation as for /home).
There are many considerations for doing such things, but normally there is no need; unless you know you need them, in which case you wouldn't be asking - which is another way of saying what I wrote two paragraphs above ;-)
You can simply leave space unpartitioned and decide later.
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
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On Wednesday 19 September 2007 02:08, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
You don't really need those partitions if you don't know why you would need them ;-)
BAD advice.
So if I don't know why something is under the hood of my car, I should just take it off of my engine????
Aaron,
Think again, what Carlos said.
Blindly applied disk layout schema can bring more trouble than benefit.
Take example of separate /tmp directory. If it is undersized it will be
problem much bigger that fragmentation, and what is correct size is not
trivial to answer. It depends on what you want to do with computer, so if you
don't know exactly what programs you will run, how much temporary space they
would demand, better don't create separate /tmp.
That translates in:
"If you don't know purpose of engine parts, don't mess with it."
BTW, configuring kernel I need often help. They have one sentence all over:
"If you don't know what
Rajko M. wrote:
On Wednesday 19 September 2007 02:08, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
You don't really need those partitions if you don't know why you would need them ;-)
BAD advice.
So if I don't know why something is under the hood of my car, I should just take it off of my engine????
Aaron,
Think again, what Carlos said. Blindly applied disk layout schema can bring more trouble than benefit.
Overly simple disk layout because you don't understand the advice of wiser users can ALSO bring more trouble than benefit.
Take example of separate /tmp directory. If it is undersized it will be problem much bigger that fragmentation, and what is correct size is not trivial to answer. It depends on what you want to do with computer, so if you don't know exactly what programs you will run, how much temporary space they would demand, better don't create separate /tmp.
That translates in: "If you don't know purpose of engine parts, don't mess with it."
However, every one with a modicum of awareness about the issue realizes that the default installation (/ and /usr) is a prescription for unnecessarily high risk of filesystem corruption on the root filesystem -- and therefore jeopardizes the entire installation.
BTW, configuring kernel I need often help. They have one sentence all over: "If you don't know what
you probably don't need it."
So disk partitioning is the same as kernal tuning now? Since when did disk partitioning become so arcane that it now takes a bachelor's degree in computer engineering to understand all of the issues at an appropriate level? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 12:43 +1200, Robin Klitscher wrote:
My old desktop computer died in such a way that I'm faced with complete reinstall(s) on its replacement, multi-boot including openSuSE 10.2, starting from new disks, new everything. Core 2 Quad CPU.
In searching the Net for advice on an optimum disk layout, all I've succeeded in doing is confuse myself in trying to come to terms with the often contradictory advice out there.
That's because opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one and seldom are two the same. You need to use what is best for _your_ situation not someone else's. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/09/19 12:43 (GMT+1200) Robin Klitscher apparently typed:
My old desktop computer died in such a way that I'm faced with complete reinstall(s) on its replacement, multi-boot including openSuSE 10.2, starting from new disks, new everything. Core 2 Quad CPU.
In searching the Net for advice on an optimum disk layout, all I've succeeded in doing is confuse myself in trying to come to terms with the often contradictory advice out there.
Given that space will not be a problem of itself (two SATA 320 GB disks, non-RAID), what layout would make sense? I want to do individual partitions for /, /boot, and /home; but what about others? What about /usr, or /var? What are the plusses and minuses involved (a lot of Net afficionados refer to these but don't explain what they are)?
As others have said, there are many ways, but it's up to you to figure out what works best for you. With multiboot, the complications from partitions dedicated to particular directories escalate, so simple is probably better for anyone who has to ask for advice. Multiboot can be a sticky wicket with modern distros, as their kernels impose a practical limit of 14 partitions per HD. If all or all but one OS is Linux, then this can less of a problem because you can use LVM to allocate most space Linux needs. If you'll be using a modest number of distros in multiboot without windoz, you could keep them all on one disk without needing LVM, freeing up the other disk to use for RAID 1. Regardless of how many OS in excess of one that I install on a system, I always create exactly one partition at the start of the disk to be /boot for exactly one Linux. Once it's been set up to be /boot for one Linux, it should never need a boot loader installed on it again. Instead, it can be used as a boot loader for any number of kernels, including installation kernels, as well as chainloading to / partitions, and to doz. A look at http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/install-doz-after.html might be of some use for its applicability to multiboot, and a simple partitioning plan of 4 partitions for one Linux (/boot, swap, /home & /). -- "It yet remains a problem to be solved in human affairs, whether any free government can be permanent, where the public worship of God, and the support of religion, constitute no part of the policy or duty of the state in any assignable shape." Chief Justice Joseph Story Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Robin Klitscher wrote:
My old desktop computer died in such a way that I'm faced with complete reinstall(s) on its replacement, multi-boot including openSuSE 10.2, starting from new disks, new everything. Core 2 Quad CPU.
In searching the Net for advice on an optimum disk layout, all I've succeeded in doing is confuse myself in trying to come to terms with the often contradictory advice out there.
Given that space will not be a problem of itself (two SATA 320 GB disks, non-RAID), what layout would make sense? I want to do individual partitions for /, /boot, and /home; but what about others? What about /usr, or /var? What are the plusses and minuses involved (a lot of Net afficionados refer to these but don't explain what they are)?
Opinions or advice will be gratefully received. Thank you.
Keep AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE off of / -- the less other filesystems are on the root filesystem, the less chance there is of this most crucial filesystem from being corrupted when shit happens. Generally, that means that the ONLY directories that I keep on the root ( / ) filesystem are: / itself /sbin /bin /lib /etc /boot All of the above (except /boot) ***MUST*** be in the root filesystem for the system to boot up properly. A separate /boot filesystem is no longer necessary, so I don't bother creating one--that's more of a nuisance than it's worth -- especially if you keep all non-critical directory trees on filesystems other than root ( / ). /dev, /proc, and /sys are also on /, but don't take up any disk space, as they are pseudo filesystems I keep the following directories are on other filesystems: /tmp (lots of reading/writing here -- keep it away from EVERYTHING else; similarly, at the first opportunity after doing an installation, I take the system down to single user mode, and as root, do the following: cd /var rm -rf tmp # removes /var/tmp ln -s tmp /tmp # /var/tmp is now really /tmp This now puts 99% of all temporary files (and all of their associated disk writes) on one filesystem. Typically, I put this filesystem on the OLDEST disk in my system -- why beat up a new disk with temp files? /home personal data /opt "commercial" software goes here (as well as the latest version of Mozilla, kde, plugins, etc). ANYTHING not included in a distro goes in either /opt or /usr/local (see note below about /usr/local) /var log files, printer spools, etc. /usr stuff that isn't needed to boot up with. Before the FHS (Filesystem Hierarchy Standard), there was / for system essentials as explained above, and /usr was for "everything else" /local (/usr/local is a symbolic link to /local) Since /usr can be wiped out when I install a newer version, I do ***NOT** want /usr/local on the same filesystem as /usr, therefore, I create /local, and ln -s /local /usr/local /srv for ftp/http server directories. On my laptop, /srv is a symbolic link to /home/srv (no, /home/srv does *NOT* imply the existence of a user account named srv). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 03:06:39AM -0400, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Keep AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE off of / -- the less other filesystems are on the root filesystem, the less chance there is of this most crucial filesystem from being corrupted when shit happens.
That is very sound advice. In addition, user-writeable directories (/home, /tmp, /var/tmp) should not reside on the same fs as binaries, as this is a security problem -- at least on systems where you do not fuully trust each user. That said, I tend to violate these priciples for standard workstations. I have quite a lot of them, and in case of trouble, I will simply re-install from an image. A. -- Ansgar Esztermann Researcher & Sysadmin http://www.mpibpc.mpg.de/groups/grubmueller/start/people/aeszter/index.shtml
Wed, 19 Sep 2007, by robnk@xtra.co.nz:
My old desktop computer died in such a way that I'm faced with complete reinstall(s) on its replacement, multi-boot including openSuSE 10.2, starting from new disks, new everything. Core 2 Quad CPU.
In searching the Net for advice on an optimum disk layout, all I've succeeded in doing is confuse myself in trying to come to terms with the often contradictory advice out there.
Given that space will not be a problem of itself (two SATA 320 GB disks, non-RAID), what layout would make sense? I want to do individual partitions for /, /boot, and /home; but what about others? What about /usr, or /var? What are the plusses and minuses involved (a lot of Net afficionados refer to these but don't explain what they are)?
Opinions or advice will be gratefully received. Thank you.
In other advices I haven't seen the obvious: use LVM. Divide the disk in as much logical volumes as you initialy need partitions, and if you need more, use lvcreate to take some space from the spare heap of the volume group. Can be done in YaST or from cli, in scripts or whatever. With LVM there's (almost) never reason to re-partition anymore. Theo -- Theo v. Werkhoven Registered Linux user# 99872 http://counter.li.org ICBM 52 13 26N , 4 29 47E. + ICQ: 277217131 SUSE 10.2 + Jabber: muadib@jabber.xs4all.nl Kernel 2.6.20 + See headers for PGP/GPG info. Claimer: any email I receive will become my property. Disclaimers do not apply. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Aaron Kulkis -
Ansgar Esztermann -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Kenneth Schneider -
Rajko M. -
Robin Klitscher -
Theo v. Werkhoven -
Tom Patton