Tom Nielsen wrote:

On Tuesday 10 August 2004 9:30 am, LRivas@oxiquim.cl wrote:

...

Ballmer and Taylor are really sick, and have none knowledge about the open source or linux philosophy, seeing linux as a rival who is trying to beat them... poor guys

With all due respect, I think it's quite the opposite. I think they know very, very well about opensource and the Linux philosophy....and that's why they speak so very badly about it...they know this is the only thing in the world right now that can have an impact on their revenue. Guys in their positions NEED to know everything they can about their competition so that they can "crush" it. It's all just negative marketing....an attempt to get the fence-sitters from jumping over to Linux. If I didn't know that much about Linux (and I really don't) and my job depended on hundreds of people working as efficiently as possible, I would surely go with MS. If, or when, something goes fubar, I can always tell my CIO "hey, it's Microsoft...what else can I do?" These statements and stories are enough to get someone to stay where they are.

Meanwhile, guys like me/us are introducing individuals and organizations of all kinds to GNU/Linux - and converting them slowly but surely. MS has a media machine. We have reality. It's very much a guerilla war. I simply think MS' strategy is wrong. They are the "system", unweildy and slow. They are still fighting with conventional tactics. Those tactics don't work in a guerilla war. They need to learn to adapt better. Their best approach would be to adapt their licensing strategy to fit the FOSS model more closely. That would make it less necessary or reasonable to migrate to FOSS.

With all due respect, I think it's quite the opposite. I think they know very, very well about opensource and the Linux philosophy....and that's why they speak so very badly about it...they know this is the only thing in the world right now that can have an impact on their revenue. Guys in their

Tom Wrote: positions

NEED to know everything they can about their competition so that they can "crush" it. It's all just negative marketing....an attempt to get the fence-sitters from jumping over to Linux.

On Tuesday 10 August 2004 9:30 am, LRivas@oxiquim.cl wrote:

...

Ballmer and Taylor are really sick, and have none knowledge about the open source or linux philosophy, seeing linux as a rival who is trying to beat them... poor guys

With all due respect, I think it's quite the opposite. I think they know very, very well about opensource and the Linux philosophy....and that's why they speak so very badly about it...they know this is the only thing in the world right now that can have an impact on their revenue. Guys in their

That all sounds strikingly similar to republican campaign strategy......... Maybe MS is taking lessons from Rove. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. RANKIN * BERTIN, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax www.rankin-bertin.com -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Nielsen" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] Microsoft sings a new tune on Linux positions

NEED to know everything they can about their competition so that they can "crush" it. It's all just negative marketing....an attempt to get the fence-sitters from jumping over to Linux. If I didn't know that much about Linux (and I really don't) and my job depended on hundreds of people working as efficiently as possible, I would surely go with MS. If, or when, something goes fubar, I can always tell my CIO "hey, it's Microsoft...what else can I do?" These statements and stories are enough to get someone to stay where they are.

-- Tom Nielsen Neuro Logic Systems, Inc. 1.805.389.5435 x18 www.neuro-logic.com

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

On Wednesday 11 August 2004 11:57 am, Fred Miller wrote:

On Tuesday August 10 2004 5:02 pm, David Rankin wrote:

[snip]

...

...

NEED to know everything they can about their competition so that they can "crush" it. It's all just negative marketing....an attempt to get the fence-sitters from jumping over to Linux.

That all sounds strikingly similar to republican campaign strategy......... Maybe MS is taking lessons from Rove.

Lets drop this RIGHT NOW!!! You knew it was flame bait when you did it, and NONE of us need this garbage on this list!!

Fred Wait....are you telling me (the NEED to know...) poster or the "republican campaign..." poster to stop?

-- Tom Nielsen Neuro Logic Systems, Inc. 1.805.389.5435 x18 www.neuro-logic.com

Tom Nielsen wrote:

On Tuesday 10 August 2004 9:30 am, LRivas@oxiquim.cl wrote:

...

Ballmer and Taylor are really sick, and have none knowledge about the open source or linux philosophy, seeing linux as a rival who is trying to beat them... poor guys

With all due respect, I think it's quite the opposite. I think they know very, very well about opensource and the Linux philosophy....and that's why they speak so very badly about it...they know this is the only thing in the world right now that can have an impact on their revenue.

IS HAVING AN IMPACT ON THEIR REVENUE. A mention of switching to Linux can lead to big discounts, though they are paying through slightly less enlarged noses.

Guys in their positions NEED to know everything they can about their competition so that they can "crush" it. It's all just negative marketing....an attempt to get the fence-sitters from jumping over to Linux. If I didn't know that much about Linux (and I really don't) and my job depended on hundreds of people working as efficiently as possible, I would surely go with MS. If, or when, something goes fubar, I can always tell my CIO "hey, it's Microsoft...what else can I do?" These statements and stories are enough to get someone to stay where they are.

No one ever gets fired for buying Microsoft (used to be IBM and that eventually changed), crying wolf is all they have left. Imagine a CIO who has never heard of Linux, MS is making sure he gets clued up and finds out more, so we should be pleased they are spending untold millions advertising Linux. I know many who thought Linux was light-weight until they saw those adverts. My advice which MS seems to have taken on board -- when you are drowning, shout and splash like mad rather than do nothing. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====

I think why linux is growing so slowly in companies are because of the it managers that do not deserve that title.They dont know whats out there. Whats better or how to save money. When the dinosaurs retire things should change, i hope. On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 02:25:29 +0100 Sid Boyce wrote:

Tom Nielsen wrote:

...

On Tuesday 10 August 2004 9:30 am, LRivas@oxiquim.cl wrote:

...

Ballmer and Taylor are really sick, and have none knowledge about the open source or linux philosophy, seeing linux as a rival who is trying to beat them... poor guys

With all due respect, I think it's quite the opposite. I think they know very, very well about opensource and the Linux philosophy....and that's why they speak so very badly about it...they know this is the only thing in the world right now that can have an impact on their revenue.

IS HAVING AN IMPACT ON THEIR REVENUE. A mention of switching to Linux can lead to big discounts, though they are paying through slightly less enlarged noses.

...

Guys in their positions NEED to know everything they can about their competition so that they can "crush" it. It's all just negative marketing....an attempt to get the fence-sitters from jumping over to Linux. If I didn't know that much about Linux (and I really don't) and my job depended on hundreds of people working as efficiently as possible, I would surely go with MS. If, or when, something goes fubar, I can always tell my CIO "hey, it's Microsoft...what else can I do?" These statements and stories are enough to get someone to stay where they are.

No one ever gets fired for buying Microsoft (used to be IBM and that eventually changed), crying wolf is all they have left. Imagine a CIO who has never heard of Linux, MS is making sure he gets clued up and finds out more, so we should be pleased they are spending untold millions advertising Linux. I know many who thought Linux was light-weight until they saw those adverts. My advice which MS seems to have taken on board -- when you are drowning, shout and splash like mad rather than do nothing. Regards Sid.

-- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

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On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 13:51, Sid Boyce wrote: it clown wrote:

...

I think why linux is growing so slowly in companies are because of the it managers that do not deserve that title.They dont know whats out there. Whats better or how to save money. When the dinosaurs retire things should change, i hope.

There are never any sudden moves in IT, the snowball starts out egg size and you don't see an avalanche for ages. Some of those decision makers are accustomed to the warm blanket that a Microsoft provides and I personally have seen the FUDsters at work if you ever try to come out from under, they have even got managers sacked. Some articles by consultants have recommended a gradualist, planned and coherent strategy to migration, their arguments seem sensible - every step must be manageable and carefully targetted for little or no disruption - as seemless as possible. . . . History is repeating itself, pre-1985 IBM was king of the castle with

Sid Boyce: their mainframes, and everyone else had to claw their way in (DEC VAX, HP 3000, Novell Netware). In the early 1990's it was Novell, and then Microsoft had to fight the big bad network operating system vendor with LAN Manager (LAN Damager). IBM tried OS/2. And someone bought Banyan Vines. And then MS came out with NT 3.51 and slowly one or two blue boxes started to pop up next to a lot of red boxes (Novell). The red boxes became less, and the blue boxes took over. Now penguin boxes is starting to sprout where blue boxes have been, and a new cycle began. Rudolf

On Wednesday 11 August 2004 03:25, Sid Boyce wrote:

My advice which MS seems to have taken on board -- when you are drowning, shout and splash like mad rather than do nothing.

Analogies, I love breaking them :) When you're drowning you generally want to attract as much attention as possible to that fact. If you could, you would take out a full page, front page ad in the New York Times saying "I'm about to die, please help" But is that really a sound business strategy when your company is going under? :)

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:56:55 +0200 Anders Johansson wrote:

Analogies, I love breaking them :)

When you're drowning you generally want to attract as much attention as possible to that fact. If you could, you would take out a full page, front page ad in the New York Times saying "I'm about to die, please help"

But is that really a sound business strategy when your company is going under? :)

Yeah, right, Anders, but..... So now why are most of the pages I normally check on the web full of attention grabbing M$ adverts showing (purportedly) how much better M£ is compared with Linux? Remember Stevie Smith- "I was much too far out all my life And not waving but drowning." Where are the heavy money adverts extolling Linux? Nowhere in comparison, as Linux sells itself. Why else would "Gates will lock you in, or out" spend so much money advertising against Linux? He'll drown eventually. Terence

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed August 11 2004 16:31, Sid Boyce wrote:

You've seen the Linux adverts, many tens of millions of dollars worth, they are mostly by Microsoft.

Kinda reminds me of the line "thou doest protest too much" (paraphrase?). If Linux were all that M$ said it was (or wasn't) then why spend so much money and resources to convince others that M$ is superior - as if Linux were some big scam??? No, they be sweating bullets but are trying to adhere (vainly) to the "never let 'um see you sweat" mantra. Frankly it ain't working very well, especially seeing all the effort M$ puts into the anti-Linux campaign. Cheers, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Warning: Individuals throwing objects at the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve them! If pro is the opposite of con, then the opposite of progress must be congress! In the Ocean it's called salvage, on land it's called grave robbing! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBH9et7CQBg4DqqCwRAr87AKDZ0oHewL4TeQezPaI7+K7Y5GuG1wCfVNAl G6tsILWWLAiNdSuV/1mUWoA= =7ODP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed August 11 2004 04:56, Anders Johansson wrote:

Analogies, I love breaking them :)

When you're drowning you generally want to attract as much attention as possible to that fact. If you could, you would take out a full page, front page ad in the New York Times saying "I'm about to die, please help"

But is that really a sound business strategy when your company is going under? :)

I absolutely agree. M$ is about the market and in the market "perception is reality". Hence if M$ shows any sign of weakening they will get devoured by the market vultures. So FUD away! If M$ takes a market hit then make press releases about a new win in another market as if it is the only market that matters at the time. XBox was great for this until it came to light the Sony was kicking their ass and the year end reports of massive financial losses in the M$ entertainment division confirmed this. Then they buy so called "independent" market analysis to proclaim M$ is more secure (I rolled laughing) or the TCO of M$ is far superior then Linux - also a joke. M$ is riding on the laurels of it's market share. They really don't like the fact that the stock price has been relatively flat for close to 2 years now or that the amount of critical mass for Linux has arrived and someone might soon be asking - can Linux compete - or more appropriately can M$ compare anymore. No, M$ will paint a nice rosey picture right up until they are no longer believable - which is becoming the case more and more - not the M$ will ever admit it. Just MHO, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Warning: Individuals throwing objects at the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve them! If pro is the opposite of con, then the opposite of progress must be congress! In the Ocean it's called salvage, on land it's called grave robbing! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBH9ZH7CQBg4DqqCwRAr+iAKCyruq/pIQQJRPRqtNzDGHaq0MorQCg0ocT hoJh+OE2Y9HdxexEdcWlgk8= =IjY2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun August 15 2004 14:39, Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040814

Theo

LOL. <G> Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Warning: Individuals throwing objects at the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve them! If pro is the opposite of con, then the opposite of progress must be congress! In the Ocean it's called salvage, on land it's called grave robbing! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBH9oQ7CQBg4DqqCwRArrmAKC1yGL8WnhCe9CM5QDUmZrLGs/LUwCcCXFF 5jHqAA5WWLC4eIcrrVKnpL0= =0Q3q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:

Sun, 15 Aug 2004, by crey@san.rr.com:

...

On Wed August 11 2004 04:56, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

Analogies, I love breaking them :)

When you're drowning you generally want to attract as much attention as possible to that fact. If you could, you would take out a full page, front page ad in the New York Times saying "I'm about to die, please help"

But is that really a sound business strategy when your company is going under? :)

I absolutely agree. M$ is about the market and in the market "perception is reality". Hence if M$ shows any sign of weakening they will get devoured by

[..]

...

No, M$ will paint a nice rosey picture right up until they are no longer believable - which is becoming the case more and more - not the M$ will ever admit it.

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040814

Theo

I haven't had my call for a job interview yet, may be they are working backwards from Z or picking names with eyes covered and using a sharp object to point with, see http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/04/08/12/2048237.shtml Regards Sid -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====

Hello everyone: I find it rather interesting that if the desktop represents only three per cent of market share (I am not challenging the numbers), then it must be an important market as WalMart, IBM and more recently, Hewlett Packard (to name a few) have all entered their own flavors of Linux-based consumer computers in this very arena. Cheers, Mike On Sunday 15 August 2004 18:55, C Hamel wrote:

On Sunday 15 August 2004 16:31, Curtis Rey wrote: <SNIP>

...

I absolutely agree. M$ is about the market and in the market "perception is reality". Hence if M$ shows any sign of weakening they will get devoured by the market vultures. So FUD away! If M$ takes a market hit then make press releases about a new win in another market as if it is the only market that matters at the time. XBox was great for this until it came to light the Sony was kicking their ass and the year end reports of massive financial losses in the M$ entertainment division confirmed this. Then they buy so called "independent" market analysis to proclaim M$ is more secure (I rolled laughing) or the TCO of M$ is far superior then Linux - also a joke. M$ is riding on the laurels of it's market share. They really don't like the fact that the stock price has been relatively flat for close to 2 years now or that the amount of critical mass for Linux has arrived and someone might soon be asking - can Linux compete - or more appropriately can M$ compare anymore.

No, M$ will paint a nice rosey picture right up until they are no longer believable - which is becoming the case more and more - not the M$ will ever admit it.

Right now, according to one Linux article's own stats, the desktop market is something like 3%. That is going to have to grow big-time to put the kibosh on M$. I *do* see n00bs appearing on this list on a regular basis, however, and this is good news! Let's not scare them off! ;-) -- ..."Yogi" CH Namasté Yoga Studio "If music be the food of love, why can't rabbits sing?"