Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms - openSUSE Users

Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

Duff Mckagan

21 Oct 2006 21 Oct '06

14:07

I wanna install the latest kernel, but I am not sure I understand all of the terminology associated with installing a new Kernel. There are various packages related to the kernel. For example, kernel-headers kernel-sources kernel-modules kernel-generic Now suppose I update my kernel headers..what effect will it have on the system? I know that includes all the header files for the new kernel version, but what do I have to do with it? Is installing all the above things equivalent to installing a new kernel? Also, what about initrd? I just know its initial RAM disk (and I could drive some conclusions from the full form. But nothing specific. ) I have seen some distributions don't include initrd at all. What is the use of initrd? When do we need initrd ? Just that this is confusing. I have compiled a kernel before..but that was with Gentoo. They had very specific instructions. :) -- http://mckagan.googlepages.com

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Per Jessen

21 Oct 21 Oct

14:23

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

Also, what about initrd? I just know its initial RAM disk (and I could drive some conclusions from the full form. But nothing specific. ) I have seen some distributions don't include initrd at all. What is the use of initrd? When do we need initrd ?

initrd is used to hold modules needed at boot-time. If for instance you want to boot off a SCSI-disk, your initrd should include the modules needed to drive your SCSI HBA.

...

Just that this is confusing. I have compiled a kernel before..but that was with Gentoo. They had very specific instructions. :)

There is no difference. Assuming we're talking 2.6.x, you get the latest and greatest kernel, unpack it into /usr/src/linux-x.x.x, create a symlink linux->linux-x.x.x cd linux make menuconfig make make modules_install make install. lilo/grub. done. if you need to change the contents of your initrd, you need to edit /etc/sysconfig/kernel. Per Jessen, Zurich -- http://www.spamchek.com/ - managed email security. Starting at SFr5/month/user.

Duff Mckagan

14:36

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On 10/21/06, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
Also, what about initrd? I just know its initial RAM disk (and I could drive some conclusions from the full form. But nothing specific. ) I have seen some distributions don't include initrd at all. What is the use of initrd? When do we need initrd ?

initrd is used to hold modules needed at boot-time. If for instance you want to boot off a SCSI-disk, your initrd should include the modules needed to drive your SCSI HBA.

...
Just that this is confusing. I have compiled a kernel before..but that was with Gentoo. They had very specific instructions. :)

There is no difference. Assuming we're talking 2.6.x, you get the latest and greatest kernel, unpack it into /usr/src/linux-x.x.x, create a symlink linux->linux-x.x.x cd linux make menuconfig make make modules_install make install. lilo/grub.

done.

if you need to change the contents of your initrd, you need to edit /etc/sysconfig/kernel.

Thanks. That was helpful. But what I wanted to ask is what do I do with the kernel-headers and all those things... --

...

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Per Jessen

14:44

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

Thanks. That was helpful.

But what I wanted to ask is what do I do with the kernel-headers and all those things...

Yeah, but I never use that stuff - I just get the latest kernel tarball from www.kernel.org. Per Jessen, Zurich -- http://www.spamchek.com/ - managed email security. Starting at SFr5/month/user.

Duff Mckagan

14:56

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On 10/21/06, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
Thanks. That was helpful.

But what I wanted to ask is what do I do with the kernel-headers and all those things...

Yeah, but I never use that stuff - I just get the latest kernel tarball from www.kernel.org.

Hehe..okay.. I was just referring to the stuff that YaST offers for a kernel update. So I guess compiling the kernel all your yourself is the easiest way to do that.. :) --

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Carlos E. R.

15:56

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-10-21 at 14:56 -0000, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

Hehe..okay..

I was just referring to the stuff that YaST offers for a kernel update.

So I guess compiling the kernel all your yourself is the easiest way to do that.. :)

Well, the easiest way is to do nothing, Yast already installs the kernel ready to boot ;-) You only compile it if you want to change some thing. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFOkMttTMYHG2NR9URAt+TAJwIB2fylCkipLW5+Iy42LRD0fjCKACfUbsn Hbp2HuDZOSZjfIwo2uxEqdo= =H3lg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Anders Johansson

15:57

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 14:56 +0000, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

I was just referring to the stuff that YaST offers for a kernel update.

So I guess compiling the kernel all your yourself is the easiest way to do that.. :)

You're really talking about two different things. With YaST you can install the latest kernel offered by SUSE. Is that what you want, or do you want to get the latest kernel from kernel.org? If you want the latest SUSE kernel, just install the kernel-default (or -smp, or bigsmp, or -xen, or whichever is right for your machine) and ignore the other packages. They are only needed when you want to compile third party drivers for a kernel that's installed If you want the latest kernel.org kernel, then just forget about all rpms

Duff Mckagan

16:27

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On 10/21/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 14:56 +0000, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
I was just referring to the stuff that YaST offers for a kernel update.

So I guess compiling the kernel all your yourself is the easiest way to do that.. :)

You're really talking about two different things. With YaST you can install the latest kernel offered by SUSE. Is that what you want, or do you want to get the latest kernel from kernel.org?

If you want the latest SUSE kernel, just install the kernel-default (or -smp, or bigsmp, or -xen, or whichever is right for your machine) and ignore the other packages. They are only needed when you want to compile third party drivers for a kernel that's installed

If you want the latest kernel.org kernel, then just forget about all rpms

I was just asking whats the difference. Actually, I wanted to customize the kernel for my machine ( with a kernel from kernel.org) cuz I am not quite satisfied with the performance of my system with the default kernel that SuSE has installed. So I was in a kinda dilemma as to what procedure to follow..install the kernel from kernel.org or with YaST. I guess the YaST thing would be easier, but I am not sure I will be able to reconfigure the new kernel once it is installed. --

...

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Anders Johansson

16:35

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 21:57 +0530, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

I was just asking whats the difference.

Actually, I wanted to customize the kernel for my machine ( with a kernel from kernel.org) cuz I am not quite satisfied with the performance of my system with the default kernel that SuSE has installed.

Have you made any attempts at isolating what the performance problem is? Just putting in a new kernel won't magically make your system faster. If there is a performance problem, identify what it is, and what is causing it. That will make it a lot easier to find solutions for it. Most things aren't due to the kernel or compilation flags (something most gentoo users fail to understand) but because of fundamental flaws in algorithms. Changing a kernel or a compile parameter might gain you a few percent better performance, but only a serious analysis will net you real gains Then again, most things are running as fast as they can, and any performance improvements will come from improvements in hardware

...

So I was in a kinda dilemma as to what procedure to follow..install the kernel from kernel.org or with YaST. I guess the YaST thing would be easier, but I am not sure I will be able to reconfigure the new kernel once it is installed.

You can't compile things with YaST. You can only install ready-built packages. If you want to build the latest kernel from kernel.org you're stuck with doing it by hand But like I said, unless you really analyse your performance complaints, you're more or less practising voodoo

Duff Mckagan

16:44

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On 10/21/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 21:57 +0530, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
I was just asking whats the difference.

Actually, I wanted to customize the kernel for my machine ( with a kernel from kernel.org) cuz I am not quite satisfied with the performance of my system with the default kernel that SuSE has installed.

Have you made any attempts at isolating what the performance problem is?

Just putting in a new kernel won't magically make your system faster. If there is a performance problem, identify what it is, and what is causing it. That will make it a lot easier to find solutions for it. Most things aren't due to the kernel or compilation flags (something most gentoo users fail to understand) but because of fundamental flaws in algorithms. Changing a kernel or a compile parameter might gain you a few percent better performance, but only a serious analysis will net you real gains

Then again, most things are running as fast as they can, and any performance improvements will come from improvements in hardware

...
So I was in a kinda dilemma as to what procedure to follow..install the kernel from kernel.org or with YaST. I guess the YaST thing would be

easier,

...
but I am not sure I will be able to reconfigure the new kernel once it is installed.

You can't compile things with YaST. You can only install ready-built packages. If you want to build the latest kernel from kernel.org you're stuck with doing it by hand

Yeah..I understand I won't be able to compile using YaST. Just had a dilemma as to install a new pre-compiled kernel or get a kernel from kernel.org and build it myself. But like I said, unless you really analyse your performance complaints,

...

you're more or less practising voodoo

Well..as you have rightly said, improvement in performance will come by improvement in Hardware. I understand that my hardware isn't too great but the problem is quite serious. Whenever I minimize or maximize windows, and if I am playing amaroK at the same time, then amaroK stops playing until the window maximizes or minimizes and then continues playing. This doesn't happen on other Linices I have installed (Slackware Current) . I didn't happen on SuSE 9.3 either. But only on this version...I am experiencing this problem. SuSE 10.0 --

...

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-- http://mckagan.googlepages.com

Duff Mckagan

16:48

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On 10/21/06, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

On 10/21/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

...
On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 21:57 +0530, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
I was just asking whats the difference.

Actually, I wanted to customize the kernel for my machine ( with a kernel from kernel.org) cuz I am not quite satisfied with the performance of my system with the default kernel that SuSE has installed.

Have you made any attempts at isolating what the performance problem is?

Just putting in a new kernel won't magically make your system faster. If there is a performance problem, identify what it is, and what is causing it. That will make it a lot easier to find solutions for it. Most things

aren't due to the kernel or compilation flags (something most gentoo users fail to understand) but because of fundamental flaws in algorithms. Changing a kernel or a compile parameter might gain you a few percent better performance, but only a serious analysis will net you

real gains

Then again, most things are running as fast as they can, and any performance improvements will come from improvements in hardware

...
So I was in a kinda dilemma as to what procedure to follow..install

the

...
kernel from kernel.org or with YaST. I guess the YaST thing would be easier, but I am not sure I will be able to reconfigure the new kernel once it is installed.

You can't compile things with YaST. You can only install ready-built packages. If you want to build the latest kernel from kernel.org you're stuck with doing it by hand

Yeah..I understand I won't be able to compile using YaST. Just had a dilemma as to install a new pre-compiled kernel or get a kernel from kernel.org and build it myself.

But like I said, unless you really analyse your performance complaints,

...
you're more or less practising voodoo

Well..as you have rightly said, improvement in performance will come by improvement in Hardware. I understand that my hardware isn't too great but the problem is quite serious.

Whenever I minimize or maximize windows, and if I am playing amaroK at the same time, then amaroK stops playing until the window maximizes or minimizes and then continues playing.

This doesn't happen on other Linices I have installed (Slackware Current) . I didn't happen on SuSE 9.3 either. But only on this version...I am experiencing this problem. SuSE 10.0

Also, there are other problems. The mouse doesn't move smoothly on the screen sometimes. The CPU Usage is always close to 100% (thats what worries me the most) . --

...

...
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-- http://mckagan.googlepages.com

-- http://mckagan.googlepages.com

Randall R Schulz

17:11

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

Duff, On Saturday 21 October 2006 09:48, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

...

Trimming unnecessary quoted text is a sign of respect for others on the list.

...

Also, there are other problems. The mouse doesn't move smoothly on the screen sometimes. The CPU Usage is always close to 100% (thats what worries me the most) .

Then clearly you've got something malfunctioning on your system and the odds are good it will continue to do so regardless of what kernel you install. You need to find that culprit. Use "top" to see which processes are using the most resources (CPU, primarily, which is the default sort for top). Does this high CPU consumption go on indefinitely, or does it come and go? There are scheduled activities on any Linux system (as an aside, "Linices" is not a word) that can temporarily consume a lot of CPU and / or IO. Anyway, start with a specific diagnosis. Then once you understand what's wrong, you stand a reasonable chance of fixing. Blindly changing things in the hope it will remedy a problem is unlikely to work and may well compound both the problems and the task of accurate diagnosis. Randall Schulz

Anders Johansson

19:07

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 22:18 +0530, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

On 10/21/06, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
Well..as you have rightly said, improvement in performance will come by improvement in Hardware. I understand that my hardware isn't too great but the problem is quite serious.

Whenever I minimize or maximize windows, and if I am playing amaroK at the same time, then amaroK stops playing until the window maximizes or minimizes and then continues playing.

This doesn't happen on other Linices I have installed (Slackware Current) . I didn't happen on SuSE 9.3 either. But only on this version...I am experiencing this problem. SuSE 10.0

Also, there are other problems. The mouse doesn't move smoothly on the screen sometimes. The CPU Usage is always close to 100% (thats what worries me the most) .

Honestly, these two problems together, it sounds like your problem is you don't have DMA enabled on your hard drives. Check with "hdparm /dev/<device>". Enable with "hdparm -d 1 /dev/<device>"

Duff Mckagan

22 Oct 22 Oct

04:01

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On 10/22/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

...
On 10/21/06, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
Well..as you have rightly said, improvement in performance will come by improvement in Hardware. I understand that my hardware isn't too great but the problem is quite serious.

Whenever I minimize or maximize windows, and if I am playing amaroK at

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 22:18 +0530, Duff Mckagan wrote: the

...
...
same time, then amaroK stops playing until the window maximizes or minimizes and then continues playing.

This doesn't happen on other Linices I have installed (Slackware Current) . I didn't happen on SuSE 9.3 either. But only on this version...I am experiencing this problem. SuSE 10.0

Also, there are other problems. The mouse doesn't move smoothly on the screen sometimes. The CPU Usage is always close to 100% (thats what worries me the most) .

Honestly, these two problems together, it sounds like your problem is you don't have DMA enabled on your hard drives. Check with "hdparm /dev/<device>".

Enable with "hdparm -d 1 /dev/<device>"

DMA was already ON. --

...

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Per Jessen

21 Oct 21 Oct

16:49

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

Anders Johansson wrote:

...

But like I said, unless you really analyse your performance complaints, you're more or less practising voodoo

Hey, what's wrong with voodoo?? :-) Per Jessen, Zurich -- http://www.spamchek.com/ - managed email security. Starting at SFr5/month/user.

Carlos E. R.

15:00

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-10-21 at 14:07 -0000, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

There are various packages related to the kernel.

For example,

kernel-headers kernel-sources kernel-modules kernel-generic

There is only kernel-source, plus the binary. I haven't seen the others in SuSE. You start with "make cloneconfig", them "make menuconfig" - don't forget to change the name of the kernel or you will have problems - then "make", "make modules", "make install". Then check the grrub menu.lst. Done.

...

Just that this is confusing. I have compiled a kernel before..but that was with Gentoo. They had very specific instructions. :)

So does SuSE: /usr/src/linux/README.SUSE-> ../../share/doc/packages/kernel-source/README.SUSE - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFOjYNtTMYHG2NR9URApZ8AJ9Rrcznwm2YTX1HuOs0l4eoHHylxACfSMDG hDhVpJWjvZqM+/ESOW8x6ik= =VQgm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Duff Mckagan

15:08

New subject: [SLE] Compiling a New Kernel - Clarification of Terms

On 10/21/06, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Saturday 2006-10-21 at 14:07 -0000, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...
There are various packages related to the kernel.

For example,

kernel-headers kernel-sources kernel-modules kernel-generic

There is only kernel-source, plus the binary. I haven't seen the others in SuSE. You start with "make cloneconfig", them "make menuconfig" - don't forget to change the name of the kernel or you will have problems - then "make", "make modules", "make install". Then check the grrub menu.lst. Done.

...
Just that this is confusing. I have compiled a kernel before..but that was with Gentoo. They had very specific instructions. :)

So does SuSE:

/usr/src/linux/README.SUSE-> ../../share/doc/packages/kernel-source/README.SUSE

Thanks..never knew this...:) iD8DBQFFOjYNtTMYHG2NR9URApZ8AJ9Rrcznwm2YTX1HuOs0l4eoHHylxACfSMDG

...

hDhVpJWjvZqM+/ESOW8x6ik= =VQgm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Anders Johansson
Carlos E. R.
Duff Mckagan
Per Jessen
Randall R Schulz