I am having a hardware problem with my machine and am trying to diagnose it. The first thing that happens is that my screen freezes. It has always happened when my screen saver was running, but I'm assuming that's just a coincidence. After the screen saver freezes, here are some things that have happened on reboot. 1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes up, no disk activity, nothing. 2) There is disk activity as if the machine is booting, but the screen is blank. 3) Once, the machine actually booted, but what was on the screen was pure garbage -- a screen full of letters overlaying other letters overlaying icons, etc. There wasn't a centimeter of blank screen space. It was completely covered with this garbage. My guess would be that I've got a video card going out, but item 1) makes me wonder. Could a bad video card actually cause the machine to just give two beeps and not even try to boot? In all cases, if I let the machine sit for maybe just 5 minutes it will re-boot normally (so far, anyway, but I tend to think the problem will get worse over time). Once it's back up, it will run for some time with no problems (I don't recall it ever happening back to back on the same day, but if I left it up long enough the second time I suspect it would ultimately lock up again). There's some pattern here in all of this, but also some inconsistency. Any help diagnosing this problem greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg Wallace
On Mon, 2006-10-16 at 13:30 -0500, Greg Wallace wrote:
My guess would be that I've got a video card going out, but item 1) makes me wonder. Could a bad video card actually cause the machine to just give two beeps and not even try to boot?
Yes it can. See http://www.pchell.com/hardware/beepcodes.shtml or the documentation for the BIOS you are actually using on that machine.
In all cases, if I let the machine sit for maybe just 5 minutes it will re-boot normally (so far, anyway, but I tend to think the problem will get worse over time). Once it's back up, it will run for some time with no problems (I don't recall it ever happening back to back on the same day, but if I left it up long enough the second time I suspect it would ultimately lock up again). There's some pattern here in all of this, but also some inconsistency. Any help diagnosing this problem greatly appreciated.
Sounds very much like it's overheating. Anders
On 06/10/16 13:30 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
I am having a hardware problem with my machine and am trying to diagnose it. The first thing that happens is that my screen freezes. It has always happened when my screen saver was running, but I'm assuming that's just a coincidence. After the screen saver freezes, here are some things that have happened on reboot.
What happens if you disable the screensaver and DPMS?
1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes up, no disk activity, nothing.
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means.
2) There is disk activity as if the machine is booting, but the screen is blank.
3) Once, the machine actually booted, but what was on the screen was pure garbage -- a screen full of letters overlaying other letters overlaying icons, etc. There wasn't a centimeter of blank screen space. It was completely covered with this garbage.
My guess would be that I've got a video card going out, but item 1) makes me wonder. Could a bad video card actually cause the machine to just give two beeps and not even try to boot?
All symptoms point to a video card problem, but this includes a possible video card slot problem. A BIOS may balk at continuing POST when it thinks it's supposed to have working video.
In all cases, if I let the machine sit for maybe just 5 minutes it will re-boot normally (so far, anyway, but I tend to think the problem will get worse over time). Once it's back up, it will run for some time with no problems (I don't recall it ever happening back to back on the same day, but if I left it up long enough the second time I suspect it would ultimately lock up again). There's some pattern here in all of this, but also some inconsistency. Any help diagnosing this problem greatly appreciated.
These time differences make it appear it may be heat and/or voltage (and thus power supply) related. If it hasn't had a dust removal since it was new, that's probably long overdue. If the machine was here, my 3rd move would be to see what happens with a different video card, 2nd being test the PS, 1st being cleaning. If you don't have another card to try, at least try reseating yours. Try leaving the cover off and pointing a big fan at it to see if less heat is any help. If you have any cards in slots that aren't necessary to run the OS, pull them out to see if it changes anything. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 2:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Subject: Re: [SLE] Need help diagnosing hardware problem
On 06/10/16 13:30 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
I am having a hardware problem with my machine and am trying to diagnose it. The first thing that happens is that my screen freezes. It has always happened when my screen saver was running, but I'm assuming that's just a coincidence. After the screen saver freezes, here are some things that have happened on reboot.
What happens if you disable the screensaver and DPMS?
Could a screensaver problem cause the machine to not be able to re-boot? I forgot where DMPS is controlled. Could you tell me how to turn it off?
1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes up, no disk activity, nothing.
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means .
What docs. I got zilch in the way of documentation with this Dell machine, and Dell tech support couldn't tell me what two beeps meant (actually, they took off on a tangent and didn't even try to answer that question, about what I've come to expect from their tech support).
2) There is disk activity as if the machine is booting, but the screen is blank.
3) Once, the machine actually booted, but what was on the screen was pure garbage -- a screen full of letters overlaying other letters overlaying icons, etc. There wasn't a centimeter of blank screen space. It was completely covered with this garbage.
My guess would be that I've got a video card going out, but item 1) makes me wonder. Could a bad video card actually cause the machine to just give two beeps and not even try to boot?
All symptoms point to a video card problem, but this includes a possible video card slot problem. A BIOS may balk at continuing POST when it thinks it's supposed to have working video. .
In all cases, if I let the machine sit for maybe just 5 minutes it will re-boot normally (so far, anyway, but I tend to think the problem will get worse over time). Once it's back up, it will run for some time with no problems (I don't recall it ever happening back to back on the same day, but if I left it up long enough the second time I suspect it would ultimately lock up again). There's some pattern here in all of this, but also some inconsistency. Any help diagnosing this
I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself. Other than the instance with the two beeps (which might could be caused by a video card problem, though I have no way of knowing), all of the other cases resulted in me not seeing any activity on the screen at boot up. I mean I didn't even get the bios screen. Then there was the time when the screen was just completely covered in garbage. Even the time when I got the two beeps I still didn't get anything on the screen. I'm thinking I might just spring for a new video card just to see if that fixes it. I don't do any heavy graphics, so I could get by with a fairly cheap bare bones type of card anyway, so it probably wouldn't cost too much just to try that. problem
greatly appreciated.
These time differences make it appear it may be heat and/or voltage (and thus power supply) related. If it hasn't had a dust removal since it was new, that's probably long overdue. If the machine was here, my 3rd move would be to see what happens with a different video card, 2nd being test the PS, 1st being cleaning. If you don't have another card to try, at least try reseating yours. Try leaving the cover off and pointing a big fan at it to see if less heat is any help. If you have any cards in slots that aren't necessary to run the OS, pull them out to see if it changes anything.
1. Cleaning -- Well, I cleaned it out as best I could. I tried a vacuum and a wisk broom. It's hard to a lot of the areas because of all of the things sticking up in the air and covering other things up. I have to say, however, that it really didn't look all that dirty. 2. Power supply -- How does one test the power supply? Overall, as I said above, I'm suspecting a bad video card as the culprit. Thanks, Greg Wallace
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 02:19, Greg Wallace wrote:
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 2:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Subject: Re: [SLE] Need help diagnosing hardware problem
On 06/10/16 13:30 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
I am having a hardware problem with my machine and am trying to diagnose
it.
The first thing that happens is that my screen freezes. It has always happened when my screen saver was running, but I'm assuming that's just a coincidence. After the screen saver freezes, here are some things that
have
happened on reboot.
What happens if you disable the screensaver and DPMS?
Could a screensaver problem cause the machine to not be able to re-boot? I forgot where DMPS is controlled. Could you tell me how to turn it off?
1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes
up,
no disk activity, nothing.
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means
.
What docs. I got zilch in the way of documentation with this Dell machine, and Dell tech support couldn't tell me what two beeps meant (actually, they took off on a tangent and didn't even try to answer that question, about what I've come to expect from their tech support).
2) There is disk activity as if the machine is booting, but the screen
is
blank.
3) Once, the machine actually booted, but what was on the screen was
pure
garbage -- a screen full of letters overlaying other letters overlaying icons, etc. There wasn't a centimeter of blank screen space. It was completely covered with this garbage.
My guess would be that I've got a video card going out, but item 1) makes
me
wonder. Could a bad video card actually cause the machine to just give
two
beeps and not even try to boot?
All symptoms point to a video card problem, but this includes a possible video card slot problem. A BIOS may balk at continuing POST when it thinks it's supposed to have working video.
.
I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself. Other than the instance with the two beeps (which might could be caused by a video card problem, though I have no way of knowing), all of the other cases resulted in me not seeing any activity on the screen at boot up. I mean I didn't even get the bios screen. Then there was the time when the screen was just completely covered in garbage. Even the time when I got the two beeps I still didn't get anything on the screen. I'm thinking I might just spring for a new video card just to see if that fixes it. I don't do any heavy graphics, so I could get by with a fairly cheap bare bones type of card anyway, so it probably wouldn't cost too much just to try that.
In all cases, if I let the machine sit for maybe just 5 minutes it will re-boot normally (so far, anyway, but I tend
to
think the problem will get worse over time). Once it's back up, it will
run
for some time with no problems (I don't recall it ever happening back to back on the same day, but if I left it up long enough the second time I suspect it would ultimately lock up again). There's some pattern here in all of this, but also some inconsistency. Any help diagnosing this
problem
greatly appreciated.
These time differences make it appear it may be heat and/or voltage (and thus power supply) related. If it hasn't had a dust removal since it was new, that's probably long overdue. If the machine was here, my 3rd move would be to see what happens with a different video card, 2nd being test
the
PS, 1st being cleaning. If you don't have another card to try, at least try reseating yours. Try leaving the cover off and pointing a big fan at it to see if less heat is any help. If you have any cards in slots that aren't necessary to run the OS, pull them out to see if it changes anything.
1. Cleaning -- Well, I cleaned it out as best I could. I tried a vacuum and a wisk broom. It's hard to a lot of the areas because of all of the things sticking up in the air and covering other things up. I have to say, however, that it really didn't look all that dirty.
2. Power supply -- How does one test the power supply?
Overall, as I said above, I'm suspecting a bad video card as the culprit.
Thanks, Greg Wallace
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
What DELL model is it? This might be a start for finding manuals etc: http://support.euro.dell.com/support/index.aspx -- /Rikard ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- email : rikard.j@rikjoh.com web : http://www.rikjoh.com mob: : +46 (0)763 19 76 25 ------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 02:19, Greg Wallace wrote:
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 2:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Subject: Re: [SLE] Need help diagnosing hardware problem
On 06/10/16 13:30 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
I am having a hardware problem with my machine and am trying to diagnose
it.
The first thing that happens is that my screen freezes. It has always happened when my screen saver was running, but I'm assuming that's just a coincidence. After the screen saver freezes, here are some things that
have
happened on reboot.
What happens if you disable the screensaver and DPMS?
Could a screensaver problem cause the machine to not be able to re-boot? I forgot where DMPS is controlled. Could you tell me how to turn it off?
1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes
up,
no disk activity, nothing.
<snip>
2) There is disk activity as if the machine is booting, but the screen
is
blank.
3) Once, the machine actually booted, but what was on the screen was
pure
garbage -- a screen full of letters overlaying other letters overlaying icons, etc. There wasn't a centimeter of blank screen space. It was completely covered with this garbage.
My guess would be that I've got a video card going out, but item 1) makes
me
wonder. Could a bad video card actually cause the machine to just give
two
beeps and not even try to boot?
All symptoms point to a video card problem, but this includes a possible video card slot problem. A BIOS may balk at continuing POST when it
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 7:40 PM, Rikard Johnels wrote: thinks
it's supposed to have working video.
.
I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself. Other than the instance with the two beeps (which might could be caused by a video card problem, though I have no way of knowing), all of the other cases resulted in me not seeing any activity on the screen at boot up. I mean I didn't even get the bios screen. Then there was the time when the screen was just completely covered in garbage. Even the time when I got the two beeps I still didn't get anything on the screen. I'm thinking I might just spring for a new video card just to see if that fixes it. I don't do any heavy graphics, so I could get by with a fairly cheap bare bones type of card anyway, so it probably wouldn't cost too much just to try that.
In all cases, if I let the machine sit for maybe just 5 minutes it will re-boot normally (so far, anyway, but I tend
to
think the problem will get worse over time). Once it's back up, it will
run
for some time with no problems (I don't recall it ever happening back to back on the same day, but if I left it up long enough the second time I suspect it would ultimately lock up again). There's some pattern here in all of this, but also some inconsistency. Any help diagnosing this
problem
greatly appreciated.
These time differences make it appear it may be heat and/or voltage (and thus power supply) related. If it hasn't had a dust removal since it was new, that's probably long overdue. If the machine was here, my 3rd move would be to see what happens with a different video card, 2nd being test
the
PS, 1st being cleaning. If you don't have another card to try, at least try reseating yours. Try leaving the cover off and pointing a big fan at it to see if less heat is any help. If you have any cards in slots that aren't necessary to run the OS, pull them out to see if it changes anything.
1. Cleaning -- Well, I cleaned it out as best I could. I tried a vacuum and a wisk broom. It's hard to a lot of the areas because of all of the things sticking up in the air and covering other things up. I have to say, however, that it really didn't look all that dirty.
2. Power supply -- How does one test the power supply?
Overall, as I said above, I'm suspecting a bad video card as the culprit.
Thanks, Greg Wallace
What DELL model is it?
Optiplex GX260
This might be a start for finding manuals etc: http://support.euro.dell.com/support/index.aspx
I've already looked at the Dell site. It appears that my machine is too old to have any info out there. Even for the newer machines, I couldn't find any information about what beep codes mean.
-- /Rikard
FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 > Greg Wallace
1. Cleaning -- Well, I cleaned it out as best I could. I tried a vacuum and a wisk broom. It's hard to a lot of the areas because of all of the things sticking up in the air and covering other things up. I have to say, however, that it really didn't look all that dirty.
2. Power supply -- How does one test the power supply?
Overall, as I said above, I'm suspecting a bad video card as the culprit.
Thanks, Greg Wallace
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
What DELL model is it?
This might be a start for finding manuals etc: http://support.euro.dell.com/support/index.aspx
I´ve been following this thread. For a couple of weeks ago I installed SuSe 10.0 on a friends computer. Everything was up running just fine. My friend doesn´t know much about computers so before I should leave his place I said that he should switch of the computer and start it by him self, so I could see that he could manage it. It DIDN´T start. It didn´t try to boot from hd, cd or dvd. It didn´t enter bios. Totally dead. After 30-40 tries it suddenly started again (with no problems). The difference here is that there´s never any messed up screen on this computer. Either it doesn´t boot or it boots and run perfectly. In my opinion it´s the power supply that´s the week part in this DELL computer. When I opened the case of the computer I saw the BIGGEST Cpu fan I have ever seen. It occupies half the case and there´s to big holes in the sides of the case letting out hot air from the cpu. I said to my my friend that he has to have the computer up running until I know what to do. As I remember it´s a DELL (for shure) ~Dimension 5000. Ati graphics X300. Intel P4 3Ghz With a fan s big as Sweden... The construction as I see it should never have left the factory. /Peo Registered Linux user #432116 http://counter.li.org/ http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/
On 06/10/16 19:19 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 2:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
What happens if you disable the screensaver and DPMS?
Could a screensaver problem cause the machine to not be able to re-boot? I
Certainly seems possible if the video card has a heat-related problem. Screensavers commonly keep a graphics card loaded more than web surfing, IM, or email typically do.
forgot where DMPS is controlled. Could you tell me how to turn it off?
Comment out the xorg.conf option line that has it.
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means
What docs. I got zilch in the way of documentation with this Dell machine, and Dell tech support couldn't tell me what two beeps meant (actually, they took off on a tangent and didn't even try to answer that question, about what I've come to expect from their tech support).
Google for BIOS beep codes Dell should answer it, or search the Dell forums.
1. Cleaning -- Well, I cleaned it out as best I could. I tried a vacuum and a wisk broom. It's hard to a lot of the areas because of all of the things sticking up in the air and covering other things up. I have to say, however, that it really didn't look all that dirty.
If it didn't look very dirty, particularly on the heat sinks, then likely heat is not the problem, unless the video card has a dead fan cooler. How old is it?
2. Power supply -- How does one test the power supply?
You can get a go/nogo power supply tester for under $20. With the system running, check the voltages with any multimeter at the power-to-motherboard-plug and see if they match what the label on the PS says they should be.
Overall, as I said above, I'm suspecting a bad video card as the culprit.
Methinks same thing. Don't you know anywhere to borrow or steal any old video card just to test? PCI or AGP (or if you have such a slot, PCI-X, though not likely you'd find an old one of those to borrow), anything just to see if problem goes away. The US is full of old puters sitting around collecting dust with no one to be bothered to get rid of them. Just be sure with an old AGP card that its voltage requirement matches what the motherboard can provide. Newer ones use lower voltage. Searching for video on your model on the Dell forum might turn up a reason to get Dell more involved. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 7:44 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/16 19:19 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 2:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
What happens if you disable the screensaver and DPMS?
Could a screensaver problem cause the machine to not be able to re-boot? I
Certainly seems possible if the video card has a heat-related problem. Screensavers commonly keep a graphics card loaded more than web surfing, IM, or email typically do.
forgot where DMPS is controlled. Could you tell me how to turn it off?
Comment out the xorg.conf option line that has it.
I'll try this later. I've just come across some documentation on the European Dell web site that informed me about 4 little lights on the back of my machine. All lights should be green. If any or yellow, then the particular pattern tells you the problem you are having (green-yellow-yellow-yellow = Possible BIOS failure, green-yellow-green-yelloow = Possible video card failure or bad on-board video, etc.). So, I just need to wait for the next time it freezes and check those lights. Hopefully, that will point me to the specific error, assuming it functions as advertised and they aren't all still green!
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means
What docs. I got zilch in the way of documentation with this Dell machine, and Dell tech support couldn't tell me what two beeps meant (actually, they took off on a tangent and didn't even try to answer that question, about what I've come to expect from their tech support).
Google for BIOS beep codes Dell should answer it, or search the Dell forums.
Yep, I found this via Google. I had googled before but just didn't specify the right search criteria.
1. Cleaning -- Well, I cleaned it out as best I could. I tried a vacuum and a wisk broom. It's hard to a lot of the areas because of all of the things sticking up in the air and covering other things up. I have to say, however, that it really didn't look all that dirty.
If it didn't look very dirty, particularly on the heat sinks, then likely heat is not the problem, unless the video card has a dead fan cooler. How old is it?
2. Power supply -- How does one test the power supply?
You can get a go/nogo power supply tester for under $20. With the system running, check the voltages with any multimeter at the power-to-motherboard-plug and see if they match what the label on the PS says they should be.
I'll keep this in mind if the light codes don't give me a diagnosis.
Overall, as I said above, I'm suspecting a bad video card as the culprit.
Methinks same thing. Don't you know anywhere to borrow or steal any old video card just to test? PCI or AGP (or if you have such a slot, PCI-X, though not likely you'd find an old one of those to borrow), anything just to see if problem goes away. The US is full of old puters sitting around collecting dust with no one to be bothered to get rid of them. Just be sure with an old AGP card that its voltage requirement matches what the motherboard can provide. Newer ones use lower voltage.
Searching for video on your model on the Dell forum might turn up a reason to get Dell more involved.
Greg Wallace
On Monday 16 October 2006 19:19, Greg Wallace wrote:
> I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself. Other than
> the instance with the two beeps (which might could be caused by a video
> card problem, though I have no way of knowing), all of the other cases
> resulted in me not seeing any activity on the screen at boot up. I mean I
> didn't even get the bios screen. Then there was the time when the screen
> was just completely covered in garbage.
This is one of four things, which can be checked in order:
1) memory
2) video card/memory
3) power supply
4) main logic board
Before you do anything else, take the thing apart (use an ESD wrist
strap) and reseat all of your connectors. Actually unplug the DIMMS (memory
modules) and replug them. Unplug the power supply connectors and reseat
them. Gently unplug all connectors on the main board and reseat them. Unplug
your cards (particularly your video card if its not on-board) and reseat
them. Reboot and see what happens.
Is your video card an nVidia chip set? If so, try another one... voodoo,
etc.
I keep an 250 watt power supply in the closet for this purpose...
basicly, swap out the power supply with a known good one and see if the
problem goes away. Bad supplies are notorious for causing this type of
failure.
If the problem does not go away with another power supply and the video
is on-board, then your main logic board is probably bad.
Intermittent problems are almost always hardware related... however, some
flaky problems can be due to drivers also... have you upgraded any of your
systems drivers that might correlate to the hardware problem you are
experiencing?
Oh, one more thing... instead of rebooting... when your screen locks up
have you tried bringing up a black screen console with ctrl+alt+F1 ?
--
Kind regards,
M Harris <><
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 8:00 PM, M. Harris wrote:
>On Monday 16 October 2006 19:19, Greg Wallace wrote:
>> I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself. Other than
>> the instance with the two beeps (which might could be caused by a video
>> card problem, though I have no way of knowing), all of the other cases
>> resulted in me not seeing any activity on the screen at boot up. I mean
I
>> didn't even get the bios screen. Then there was the time when the screen
>> was just completely covered in garbage.
> This is one of four things, which can be checked in order:
> 1) memory
> 2) video card/memory
> 3) power supply
> 4) main logic board
I used the Dell diagnostic tool to check the memory, processor, etc. All
checked out ok. However, I don't think it checked power supply.
> Before you do anything else, take the thing apart (use an ESD wrist
>strap) and reseat all of your connectors. Actually unplug the DIMMS (memory
>modules) and replug them. Unplug the power supply connectors and reseat
>them. Gently unplug all connectors on the main board and reseat them.
>Unplug
>your cards (particularly your video card if its not on-board) and reseat
>them. Reboot and see what happens.
All of this is way over my head. I don't even know what an ESD wrist
strap is. What are connectors? The Dell diagnostic tool ran several tests
against the memory and that all seemed ok. What are the power supply
connectors?
I'll try unplugging and re-plugging the video card, but first I've found
some information on line about my computer that might help me. Turns out
there are 4 diagnostic lights in the back of the machine. Normally, they
should all be green. If one or more of them are yellow, then the particular
pattern tells you the source of your problem. E. g.,
green-yellow-yellow-yellow = Possible BIOS failure; the computer is in the
recovery mode, green-yellow-green-yellow = Possible video card failure or
bad on-board video, etc. So, at this point, I think I'll wait until the
machine freezes again and see what those lights tell me. That will save me
a lot of effort if I get a specific diagnosis. If not, I can come back and
address some of the issues you mention here.
I am really curious about this power supply component though. Where is it
and how do you go about swapping it out?
> Is your video card an nVidia chip set? If so, try another one...
>voodoo,
>etc.
It's a Radeon
> I keep an 250 watt power supply in the closet for this purpose...
>basicly, swap out the power supply with a known good one and see if the
>problem goes away. Bad supplies are notorious for causing this type of
>failure.
Again, could you point me in the right direction as far as locating this and
describe how to swap it out?
> If the problem does not go away with another power supply and the
video
>is on-board, then your main logic board is probably bad.
> Intermittent problems are almost always hardware related... however,
>some
>flaky problems can be due to drivers also... have you upgraded any of your
>systems drivers that might correlate to the hardware problem you are
>experiencing?
> Oh, one more thing... instead of rebooting... when your screen locks
up
>have you tried bringing up a black screen console with ctrl+alt+F1 ?
Haven't tried that, but I will.
>--
>Kind regards,
>M Harris <><
Thanks,
Greg Wallace
On Oct 16, 2006, at 11:30 PM, Greg Wallace wrote:
All of this is way over my head. I don't even know what an ESD wrist strap is.
electrostatic discharge strap .. you wrap it around your wrist and attach the other end to a metal object such as the case as to nullify any static you can build up in your body so you don't zap your hardware making it useless. "esd wrist strap" works when GTMF is he answer. ;D -Ben -- Envy, n: Wishing you'd been born with an unfair advantage instead of having to try and acquire one.
On 06/10/16 23:30 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
All of this is way over my head. I don't even know what an ESD wrist strap is.
It's an insurance policy, to protect components from a zapping death. If you're careful how you handle components, making sure to maintain contact with the metal case while installing or removing components, and don't work in a carpeted area or with low humidity, it's usually only in the way. ESD is prolly on http://www.acronymfinder.com/. Yup. First entry.
What are connectors?
Thingies that make a connection from some thing to some other thing.
The Dell diagnostic tool ran several tests against the memory and that all seemed ok. What are the power supply connectors?
Connectors on the ends of the zillion wires sprouting from the power supply.
I am really curious about this power supply component though. Where is it and how do you go about swapping it out?
Relatively big box with air holes and/or air slots, and fan, and wires going to everything that needs to be plugged into power, and requires you plug the wall cord into it if you want your Dell to turn on and boot. It converts high voltage house current into low voltage DC current that electronic microcomponents can use. Usually 4 screws holding it in, but sometimes a 5th or 6th in a harder to get to location. Once you unplug the connectors and remove the screws holding it to the case, either it falls out, or you lift it out. In a Dell there might be 0 screws, with a plastic catch or two instead. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 @ 12:01 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/16 23:30 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
All of this is way over my head. I don't even know what an ESD wrist strap is.
It's an insurance policy, to protect components from a zapping death. If you're careful how you handle components, making sure to maintain contact with the metal case while installing or removing components, and don't work in a carpeted area or with low humidity, it's usually only in the way. ESD is prolly on http://www.acronymfinder.com/. Yup. First entry.
What are connectors?
Thingies that make a connection from some thing to some other thing.
The Dell diagnostic tool ran several tests against the memory and that all seemed ok. What are the power supply connectors?
Connectors on the ends of the zillion wires sprouting from the power supply.
I am really curious about this power supply component though. Where is it and how do you go about swapping it out?
Relatively big box with air holes and/or air slots, and fan, and wires going to everything that needs to be plugged into power, and requires you plug the wall cord into it if you want your Dell to turn on and boot. It converts high voltage house current into low voltage DC current that electronic microcomponents can use. Usually 4 screws holding it in, but sometimes a 5th or 6th in a harder to get to location. Once you unplug the connectors and remove the screws holding it to the case, either it falls out, or you lift it out. In a Dell there might be 0 screws, with a plastic catch or two instead.
Okay, I think I found it. When you said -- "You can get a go/nogo power supply tester for under $20. With the system running, check the voltages with any multimeter at the power-to-motherboard-plug and see if they match what the label on the PS says they should be." what did you mean by power-to-motherboard-plug? Greg Wallace
On 06/10/17 00:44 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
what did you mean by power-to-motherboard-plug?
A rectangular plastic thingie stuck on the motherboard that has about 20 wires coming from the power supply. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 @ 6:57 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/17 00:44 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
what did you mean by power-to-motherboard-plug?
A rectangular plastic thingie stuck on the motherboard that has about 20 wires coming from the power supply.
I saw all of the wires coming out of the box but didn't realize it was a simple plug instead of all of the wires just originating somewhere inside the box. So you would unplug that wire bundle and stick a multimeter into the socket to test the voltage? Is that how it would work? Thanks, Greg Wallace
Greg, On Tuesday 17 October 2006 11:48, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
I saw all of the wires coming out of the box but didn't realize it was a simple plug instead of all of the wires just originating somewhere inside the box. So you would unplug that wire bundle and stick a multimeter into the socket to test the voltage? Is that how it would work?
Yes, but that presumes you know the supply voltage associated with each lead and the tolerance for that supply voltage. Furthermore, that does not test the supply's ability to sustain its rated load (or the load offered by your particular system). If you want to see if the supply can supply acceptable voltages under the load offered by your hardware, you'd want to test the voltages with the power supply connected to the mainboard. There are also dedicated power-supply testers that plug directly into the PSU connector block and tell you whether the supply is operating acceptably. I don't think they perform load testing, either, though, since if they did, they'd get awfully hot, considering their size (roughly the size of an iPod).
Thanks, Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006, Randall Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 11:48, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
I saw all of the wires coming out of the box but didn't realize it was a simple plug instead of all of the wires just originating somewhere inside the box. So you would unplug that wire bundle and stick a multimeter into the socket to test the voltage? Is that how it would work?
Yes, but that presumes you know the supply voltage associated with each lead and the tolerance for that supply voltage. Furthermore, that does not test the supply's ability to sustain its rated load (or the load offered by your particular system). If you want to see if the supply can supply acceptable voltages under the load offered by your hardware, you'd want to test the voltages with the power supply connected to the mainboard.
There are also dedicated power-supply testers that plug directly into the PSU connector block and tell you whether the supply is operating acceptably. I don't think they perform load testing, either, though, since if they did, they'd get awfully hot, considering their size (roughly the size of an iPod).
Thanks, Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
Wow. Sounds to me like there's no really accurate way to test the power supply. Maybe the best bet would be to exhaust all other possibilities and if the problem persists just replace the power supply to see if that fixes it. Greg Wallace
Greg, On Tuesday 17 October 2006 12:10, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Wow. Sounds to me like there's no really accurate way to test the power supply. Maybe the best bet would be to exhaust all other possibilities and if the problem persists just replace the power supply to see if that fixes it.
Well, that's not really true. If you look closely at the power connector, you'll see that the sleeves of each pin come pretty close to the top of the connector, and multimeter probe pins can usually reach them easily, so measurement under load is probably not a problem. As for knowing what voltage to verify, most supplies list the pin-outs and color codes on their labels. Failing that, there are doubtless on-line resources with this information. E.g.: - http://pinouts.ru/pin_Power.shtml - http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml (ATX version 2) - http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml (ATX version 1.x) - http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx12v_pinout.shtml (Pentium IV and later) These references give both voltages and color codes. They should be adequate for testing purposes. Do you have a multimeter / VOM / DVM (or, god forbid a VTVM)? At the very least, you'll need that to perform a measurement. And a minimally acceptable DVM is cheaper than a high-quality power supply.
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 @ 2:27 PM, Randall Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 12:10, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Wow. Sounds to me like there's no really accurate way to test the power supply. Maybe the best bet would be to exhaust all other possibilities and if the problem persists just replace the power supply to see if that fixes it.
Well, that's not really true. If you look closely at the power connector, you'll see that the sleeves of each pin come pretty close to the top of the connector, and multimeter probe pins can usually reach them easily, so measurement under load is probably not a problem. As for knowing what voltage to verify, most supplies list the pin-outs and color codes on their labels. Failing that, there are doubtless on-line resources with this information. E.g.:
- http://pinouts.ru/pin_Power.shtml - http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml (ATX version 2) - http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml (ATX version 1.x) - http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx12v_pinout.shtml (Pentium IV and later)
These references give both voltages and color codes. They should be adequate for testing purposes.
Do you have a multimeter / VOM / DVM (or, god forbid a VTVM)? At the very least, you'll need that to perform a measurement. And a minimally acceptable DVM is cheaper than a high-quality power supply.
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
Randall: I don't have any electronic gear, so I'd be starting from scratch. Sounds like you're saying that to do the testing you unplug each wire one at a time and plug some device into that socket to test its voltage, repeating the process until you've tested each socket, is that right? Greg Wallace
Greg, On Tuesday 17 October 2006 19:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Randall: I don't have any electronic gear, so I'd be starting from scratch. Sounds like you're saying that to do the testing you unplug each wire one at a time and plug some device into that socket to test its voltage, repeating the process until you've tested each socket, is that right?
Absolutely not! If you don't have hardware problems now, you will after you're done with that. And it won't be power supply problems, it'll be mainboard component damage. No, what I'm saying is that the tip of the multimeter probe can be inserted at the top of the power supply connector (the side opposite from the PC board, which which the wires leave it) to contact the exposed upper end of the connector's pin. I'm sorry if this is confusing or I'm not being clear. I've been doing this kind of thing since I was 10, so I probably take too much for granted.
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
At 08:07 PM 10/17/2006 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Content-Disposition: inline
Greg,
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 19:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Randall: I don't have any electronic gear, so I'd be starting from scratch. Sounds like you're saying that to do the testing you unplug each wire one at a time and plug some device into that socket to test its voltage, repeating the process until you've tested each socket, is that right?
Absolutely not! If you don't have hardware problems now, you will after you're done with that. And it won't be power supply problems, it'll be mainboard component damage.
No, what I'm saying is that the tip of the multimeter probe can be inserted at the top of the power supply connector (the side opposite from the PC board, which which the wires leave it) to contact the exposed upper end of the connector's pin.
I'm sorry if this is confusing or I'm not being clear. I've been doing this kind of thing since I was 10, so I probably take too much for granted.
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
-- Randall is right, but he doesn't explain things as well as he might. Do not, under any conditions, pull the wire out of the connector, even if you can. It must be connected to the motherboard, so it is under normal electrical load.
You need a multimeter of some kind, with test leads that have thin, sharp-pointed test probes at the end. These test probes can be inserted right next to the wires that go into the power connector that hooks up to the motherboard. The color code for the computer is standardised. Black is ground, and red +5 volts. Yellow is +12, blue is -12, purple is +3.3 (not necessarily standard), white is -5. These values should be within about +/- 5%, maybe a little bit worse, but not much. Since the +3.3 voltage is new, it may also be orange. On a Frye's computer it's purple, but the standard seems to be orange. A switch voltage should be green--don't measure it. A multimeter is a device, analog or digital, which can measure voltage, current, and resistance, and sometimes other parameters. What you need to do is measure voltage, if you have reason to believe there is a voltage problem from the power supply. (I haven't been following the whole thread.) In a recent flier, Harbor Freight advertised a Cen-Tech 7 function multitester, item number 90899-1YKA for $2.99. This is a digital voltmeter and VOM. (Volts, Ohms, Milliamps.) I'm sure it will also read your AC line voltage, and tell you if you're getting 130 Volts AC, which will cost you more than if you only got 120 VAC, and your light bulbs will burn out a lot quicker! (Yes, this has happened to me.) For this price, you may have to buy a battery--I don't know if it comes with one. 1.5 volt or 9 volt, or perhaps both. The catalog was sent to me with these numbers in the address: ID=117680931 and KEY=YK2752 These surely identify me to the people at Harbor Freight, but I have no reason to believe they won't sell to you also. Make sure to tell them you're not me, otherwise I may get another multitester! A lot of their stuff comes from China, and most of their tools work fine. I've got a meter that looks like the one here, but I paid $10 for it a few years ago. It seems to be adequate, if not a lab instrument. You can contact them at www/HarborFreight.com or at 1-800-423-2567 They're in Camarillo, CA, and I have no financial interest in them, or friends working there. Good luck-- doug
On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 @ 12:27 AM, Doug McGarrett wrote:
At 08:07 PM 10/17/2006 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Content-Disposition: inline
Greg,
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 19:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Randall: I don't have any electronic gear, so I'd be starting from scratch. Sounds like you're saying that to do the testing you unplug each wire one at a time and plug some device into that socket to test its voltage, repeating the process until you've tested each socket, is that right?
Absolutely not! If you don't have hardware problems now, you will after you're done with that. And it won't be power supply problems, it'll be mainboard component damage.
No, what I'm saying is that the tip of the multimeter probe can be inserted at the top of the power supply connector (the side opposite from the PC board, which which the wires leave it) to contact the exposed upper end of the connector's pin.
I'm sorry if this is confusing or I'm not being clear. I've been doing this kind of thing since I was 10, so I probably take too much for granted.
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
-- Randall is right, but he doesn't explain things as well as he might. Do not, under any conditions, pull the wire out of the connector, even if you can. It must be connected to the motherboard, so it is under normal electrical load.
You need a multimeter of some kind, with test leads that have thin, sharp-pointed test probes at the end. These test probes can be inserted right next to the wires that go into the power connector that hooks up to the motherboard.
As I recall, all of the wires came out of one round hole, so it probably wouldn't be possible to do this without pulling the lid off of the power box to get to the source of the wires.
The color code for the computer is standardised. Black is ground, and red +5 volts. Yellow is +12, blue is -12, purple is +3.3 (not necessarily standard), white is -5. These values should be within about +/- 5%, maybe a little bit worse, but not much. Since the +3.3 voltage is new, it may also be orange. On a Frye's computer it's purple, but the standard seems to be orange.
A switch voltage should be green--don't measure it.
A multimeter is a device, analog or digital, which can measure voltage, current, and resistance, and sometimes other parameters. What you need to do is measure voltage, if you have reason to believe there is a voltage problem from the power supply. (I haven't been following the whole thread.)
In a recent flier, Harbor Freight advertised a Cen-Tech 7 function multitester, item number 90899-1YKA for $2.99. This is a digital voltmeter and VOM. (Volts, Ohms, Milliamps.) I'm sure it will also read your AC line voltage, and tell you if you're getting 130 Volts AC, which will cost you more than if you only got 120 VAC, and your light bulbs will burn out a lot quicker! (Yes, this has happened to me.)
For this price, you may have to buy a battery--I don't know if it comes with one. 1.5 volt or 9 volt, or perhaps both.
The catalog was sent to me with these numbers in the address:
ID=117680931 and KEY=YK2752
These surely identify me to the people at Harbor Freight, but I have no reason to believe they won't sell to you also. Make sure to tell them you're not me, otherwise I may get another multitester!
A lot of their stuff comes from China, and most of their tools work fine. I've got a meter that looks like the one here, but I paid $10 for it a few years ago. It seems to be adequate, if not a lab instrument.
You can contact them at
www/HarborFreight.com
or at 1-800-423-2567
They're in Camarillo, CA, and I have no financial interest in them, or friends working there.
Good luck--
doug
Thanks for the info on where to get the tool. If the problem wasn't solved by my re-seating the vide card, I'll be looking into the power supply as the next likely source and will need to buy one of these probes. Greg Wallace
Greg, On Wednesday 18 October 2006 12:28, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
You need a multimeter of some kind, with test leads that have thin, sharp-pointed test probes at the end. These test probes can be inserted right next to the wires that go into the power connector that hooks up to the motherboard.
As I recall, all of the wires came out of one round hole, so it probably wouldn't be possible to do this without pulling the lid off of the power box to get to the source of the wires.
No. You access the power supply leads on the pins of the connector that attaches to the mainboard. And you do ti while it's connected to the mainboard.
...
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 @ 3:46 PM, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 12:28, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
You need a multimeter of some kind, with test leads that have thin, sharp-pointed test probes at the end. These test probes can be inserted right next to the wires that go into the power connector that hooks up to the motherboard.
As I recall, all of the wires came out of one round hole, so it probably wouldn't be possible to do this without pulling the lid off of the power box to get to the source of the wires.
No. You access the power supply leads on the pins of the connector that attaches to the mainboard. And you do ti while it's connected to the mainboard.
...
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
So I check the voltage where each wire attaches to the motherboard, not at the power supply source, is that right? Greg Wallace
Greg, On Wednesday 18 October 2006 18:03, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
So I check the voltage where each wire attaches to the motherboard, not at the power supply source, is that right?
Yes, that's the idea. But you'd do well to heed the other advice that's been offered, here. It's true that a power supply for a modern computer can put out a lot of amps, and if you cross the probes, you could destroy the power supply. If you system is crowded, and many are, especially in that area where there are often IDE and floppy cables connected, it might be challenging to make solid connections between the multimeter probes and the power supply connector pins. Furthermore, you obviously have to take your eyes of the hardware to look at the meter. Just be very careful. Go slow. Perhaps try to dress the cables before starting to make the vicinity of the PSU connector as free of interference as possible. You might want to do a little hunting on the Internet to see if you can find some pictures or videos describing this sort of procedure. (Considering that someone posted an in-depth, careful video of how to safely disassemble a MacBook Pro, it wouldn't be too surprising to find such a thing for verifying power supply voltages.)
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 18:03, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
So I check the voltage where each wire attaches to the motherboard, not at the power supply source, is that right?
Yes, that's the idea. But you'd do well to heed the other advice that's been offered, here. It's true that a power supply for a modern computer can put out a lot of amps, and if you cross the probes, you could destroy the power supply. If you system is crowded, and many are, especially in that area where there are often IDE and floppy cables connected, it might be challenging to make solid connections between the multimeter probes and the power supply connector pins. Furthermore, you obviously have to take your eyes of the hardware to look at the meter.
One suggestion I have is to connect the black lead from the meter, to the black wire on a spare disk drive connector. Then use the other lead to poke around the main power connector. This way, you're unlikely to short the meter leads.
Just be very careful. Go slow. Perhaps try to dress the cables before starting to make the vicinity of the PSU connector as free of interference as possible.
You might want to do a little hunting on the Internet to see if you can find some pictures or videos describing this sort of procedure. (Considering that someone posted an in-depth, careful video of how to safely disassemble a MacBook Pro, it wouldn't be too surprising to find such a thing for verifying power supply voltages.)
There are the Scott Meuller books on upgrading and repairing PCs, which cover this sort of thing. Perhaps a local library has a copy. Mine does. http://www.quepublishing.com/promotions/promotion.asp?promo=1626&rl=1
On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 @ 9:21 PM, Randall Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 18:03, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
So I check the voltage where each wire attaches to the motherboard, not at the power supply source, is that right?
Yes, that's the idea. But you'd do well to heed the other advice that's been offered, here. It's true that a power supply for a modern computer can put out a lot of amps, and if you cross the probes, you could destroy the power supply. If you system is crowded, and many are, especially in that area where there are often IDE and floppy cables connected, it might be challenging to make solid connections between the multimeter probes and the power supply connector pins. Furthermore, you obviously have to take your eyes of the hardware to look at the meter.
Just be very careful. Go slow. Perhaps try to dress the cables before starting to make the vicinity of the PSU connector as free of interference as possible.
You might want to do a little hunting on the Internet to see if you can find some pictures or videos describing this sort of procedure. (Considering that someone posted an in-depth, careful video of how to safely disassemble a MacBook Pro, it wouldn't be too surprising to find such a thing for verifying power supply voltages.)
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
I think I'm going to take the advice of some of the folks on the list to let a technician do it so I can see the process done correctly once, if my video card re-seating hasn't fixed the problem. It hasn't happened in a few days, but I haven't been on the computer much during that time so I can't say as yet that that solved the problem, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Greg Wallace
On Thursday 19 October 2006 22:03, Greg Wallace wrote:
I think I'm going to take the advice of some of the folks on the list to let a technician do it so I can see the process done correctly once, if my video card re-seating hasn't fixed the problem. It hasn't happened in a few days, but I haven't been on the computer much during that time so I can't say as yet that that solved the problem, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
My first thoughts on this was that it was a video card problem... overheating. I had a similar experience but it was solid... no more video from that card at all. I still think it might be the card.
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 20:28, Greg Wallace wrote:
As I recall, all of the wires came out of one round hole, so it probably wouldn't be possible to do this without pulling the lid off of the power box to get to the source of the wires.
Thanks for the info on where to get the tool. If the problem wasn't solved by my re-seating the vide card, I'll be looking into the power supply as the next likely source and will need to buy one of these probes.
Greg Wallace
A big word of warning If you do NOT fully understand the inner workings of a Switched mode Power Supply the do NOT get the covers off with the mains connected Better still dont take the covers of at all , They are rather nasty little critter that have a bad ass bite even when switched of and unplugged the 2 main capacitors can hold one hell of a clout . I have a 25 amp Switcher PSU here i use for the HF transciever and that has no manners at all if i switch if off and pull the mains plug UK 13 amp plug the caps hold there charge for about 20 to 30 mins and it bites :-( first hand experiance of that also from comnputer PSU's you have been warned .. Pete .
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 19:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Randall: I don't have any electronic gear, so I'd be starting from scratch. Sounds like you're saying that to do the testing you unplug each wire one at a time and plug some device into that socket to test its voltage, repeating the process until you've tested each socket, is that right?
Absolutely not! If you don't have hardware problems now, you will after you're done with that. And it won't be power supply problems, it'll be mainboard component damage.
No, what I'm saying is that the tip of the multimeter probe can be inserted at the top of the power supply connector (the side opposite from the PC board, which which the wires leave it) to contact the exposed upper end of the connector's pin.
I'm sorry if this is confusing or I'm not being clear. I've been doing this kind of thing since I was 10, so I probably take too much for granted.
However, if someone doesn't understand what you meant, I'd suspect they shouldn't be attempting such testing.
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 @ 10:08 PM, Randall Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 19:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Randall: I don't have any electronic gear, so I'd be starting from scratch. Sounds like you're saying that to do the testing you unplug each wire one at a time and plug some device into that socket to test its voltage, repeating the process until you've tested each socket, is that right?
Absolutely not! If you don't have hardware problems now, you will after you're done with that. And it won't be power supply problems, it'll be mainboard component damage.
No, what I'm saying is that the tip of the multimeter probe can be inserted at the top of the power supply connector (the side opposite from the PC board, which which the wires leave it) to contact the exposed upper end of the connector's pin.
I'm sorry if this is confusing or I'm not being clear. I've been doing this kind of thing since I was 10, so I probably take too much for granted.
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
Ok, no pulling out wires. In looking at my box (from memory) the power box is up against one side of the chasis. The wires are coming out of the side. So, it sounds like I'd have to unscrew all of the screws holding the lid on the box in order to get inside where I could reach the contacts. Thanks, Greg Wallace
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 15:18, Greg Wallace wrote:
Ok, no pulling out wires. In looking at my box (from memory) the power box is up against one side of the chasis. The wires are coming out of the side. So, it sounds like I'd have to unscrew all of the screws holding the lid on the box in order to get inside where I could reach the contacts.
You mean you still have the cover on your computer????? (5 running computers in this house and not one has a full cover on it) :-)
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 15:18, Greg Wallace wrote:
Ok, no pulling out wires. In looking at my box (from memory) the power box is up against one side of the chasis. The wires are coming out of the side. So, it sounds like I'd have to unscrew all of the screws holding
On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 @ 2:28 PM, Bruce Marshall wrote: the
lid on the box in order to get inside where I could reach the contacts.
You mean you still have the cover on your computer?????
(5 running computers in this house and not one has a full cover on it) :-)
Don't they get dirty faster that way? Or do you mean just the cover on the power supply box? Greg Wallace
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 15:31, Greg Wallace wrote:
Don't they get dirty faster that way? Or do you mean just the cover on the power supply box?
Not in my opinion.... and it lets you see better when they do get dirry and it's an easy task to shut them down, cool them off, and then blow the dirt out.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 16:10 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 15:31, Greg Wallace wrote:
Don't they get dirty faster that way? Or do you mean just the cover on the power supply box?
Not in my opinion.... and it lets you see better when they do get dirry and it's an easy task to shut them down, cool them off, and then blow the dirt out.
You produce electromagnetic interference. The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD4DBQFFNpqDtTMYHG2NR9URAovDAJwLiWuVs0mysDPVvj3YwbfWzigEQwCTBa6q W8z9vMLqYSiPZ0pyt8T+iA== =Heai -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos, On Wednesday 18 October 2006 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 16:10 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 15:31, Greg Wallace wrote:
Don't they get dirty faster that way? Or do you mean just the cover on the power supply box?
Not in my opinion.... and it lets you see better when they do get dirry and it's an easy task to shut them down, cool them off, and then blow the dirt out.
You produce electromagnetic interference.
Well, the amount produced will not change, but the amount emitted might increase, but only if the cabinet is primarily metal all around. Some cases now are made with plastic side and top panels. The amount of EMI emitted is not going to be altered by a few millimeters of plastic paneling.
The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas).
I've heard that before and it's perhaps true in principal and in general, but I've never been able to see a difference in the temperatures read by the sensors for those components that have them depending on whether the cabinet is open or not. The sound output is changed, though I'm not sure it's louder with the side panel off (it could be quieter if the load on the fans is reduced or louder if more fan noise is allowed to escape). Randall Schulz
On 06/10/18 14:39 (GMT-0700) Randall R Schulz apparently typed:
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas).
I've heard that before and it's perhaps true in principal and in general, but I've never been able to see a difference in the temperatures read by the sensors for those components that have them depending on whether the cabinet is open or not.
When I built the box I'm writing this from it had one of those wierd outside the case rails for attaching the cards, with a big open area above the rail for them to feed through while assembling, and with a cover intended to block off the big hole. During construction I noticed temperatures something like 4-5C higher while the main side cover was affixed. Leaving the rail hole cover off accomplished approximately the same amount of temp reduction as leaving the side cover off. Now over that hole instead of the intended cover I have a piece of fiberglass screen, which when not plugged up with dust from the inflow there allows the temps to be almost as low as with the main side cover off. On this motherboard the CPU socket is right at the edge of the board next to the PSU, which has a temp controlled 120mm fan blowing out the back. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 14:39 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas).
I've heard that before and it's perhaps true in principal and in general, but I've never been able to see a difference in the temperatures read by the sensors for those components that have them depending on whether the cabinet is open or not.
It depends on the design, of course. The temperature on some points increase when covered, that's true, but it should get lower in some others (for instance, the drive bays), and within designed limits on all.
The sound output is changed, though I'm not sure it's louder with the side panel off (it could be quieter if the load on the fans is reduced or louder if more fan noise is allowed to escape).
Depends a lot. For example, in mine, the noise from the cpu fan, more acute than the rest, is softened by the cover. Overall, I get less noise. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFNr3HtTMYHG2NR9URAmeVAJ47Q7qBNU3FgeIzGDVAzBnGx9DUiQCdGb6A eTIRFcbOhL7/Koa8OYXOvOE= =bLEZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 17:47 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
You produce electromagnetic interference.
The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas).
You do it your way, I'll do it my way. :-)
But of course! :-) Have you noticed the FCC sticker? Or equivalent in many countries. It applies. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFNrqGtTMYHG2NR9URArVuAKCXFzwyNdAZsJoueyW2HYMI99DDqwCfTKgh 4TwhIaL1QcF9/AEOL+DJ01Q= =aKZg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 17:47 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
You produce electromagnetic interference.
The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas).
You do it your way, I'll do it my way. :-)
But of course! :-)
Have you noticed the FCC sticker? Or equivalent in many countries. It applies.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Does it say I can't take the cover off?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 19:58 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Have you noticed the FCC sticker? Or equivalent in many countries. It applies.
Does it say I can't take the cover off?
Not directly, of course, too small. But if you change the conditions under which the certification was made, then you probably are violating FCC rules. I don't live in the US, so I don't know that much. But, if you do cause radio interferences to your neighbor and they are tracked back to your equipment, and you have modified the working conditions of your equipment, then your neighbor can sue you for certain. I heard that lawyers make a good living in the US out of suing people :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFN1OdtTMYHG2NR9URAmfCAJwPhH102yIV3MwhKFQCHkvJA7OEUACeLGiZ VOijN6836ZBXBeuQvRVNaRM= =ZEK5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Thursday 19 October 2006 06:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Does it say I can't take the cover off?
Not directly, of course, too small. But if you change the conditions under which the certification was made, then you probably are violating FCC rules. I don't live in the US, so I don't know that much. But, if you do cause radio interferences to your neighbor and they are tracked back to your equipment, and you have modified the working conditions of your equipment, then your neighbor can sue you for certain. I heard that lawyers make a good living in the US out of suing people :-p
You're probably right on all of the above. But since: 1) I live on 20 acres of woods 2) My nearest neighbor is 1400 feet away 3) I have a ton of ham radio gear that would cause much more interference I don't think I'm going to worry much. :-)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2006-10-19 at 10:14 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
You're probably right on all of the above. But since:
1) I live on 20 acres of woods 2) My nearest neighbor is 1400 feet away 3) I have a ton of ham radio gear that would cause much more interference
I don't think I'm going to worry much. :-)
Right, you wont X'-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFN4tOtTMYHG2NR9URAs4XAJ9+aFQ38YMf/CRV/h0gUv7fF2l00wCdHunI i77KfyJiyXkAy+06122lQl8= =FUJV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Thu, 2006-10-19 at 12:29 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 19:58 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Have you noticed the FCC sticker? Or equivalent in many countries. It applies.
Does it say I can't take the cover off?
Not directly, of course, too small. But if you change the conditions under which the certification was made, then you probably are violating FCC rules. I don't live in the US, so I don't know that much. But, if you do cause radio interferences to your neighbor and they are tracked back to your equipment, and you have modified the working conditions of your equipment, then your neighbor can sue you for certain. I heard that lawyers make a good living in the US out of suing people :-p
Thats true the filthy varments need to be culled. Unfortunately they are not inclined to follow the lemmings off the cliff trying to migrate back to the Asian contenent. American tort lawyers are like florida gators hungry, greedy and mean and thats just in the Everglades. And then there is California... CWSIV
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri October 20 2006 21:04, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:
Thats true the filthy varments need to be culled. Unfortunately they are not inclined to follow the lemmings off the cliff trying to migrate back to the Asian contenent. American tort lawyers are like florida gators hungry, greedy and mean and thats just in the Everglades.
"And then there is California..." As a native Californian there's an old saying that goes as follows: "California - we don't arbitrate, we litigate! Cheers, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Like the song say: "Everything's 'Zen'... I don't think so"! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFOv347CQBg4DqqCwRAoRvAKCR6yEsGqDJShlcSy8mmDiRGbLsJgCgpbsW IHX4BNLDhBssiyqO4KDLXxE= =ZHkR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Wednesday 2006-10-18 at 17:47 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
You produce electromagnetic interference.
The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas). You do it your way, I'll do it my way. :-) But of course! :-)
Have you noticed the FCC sticker? Or equivalent in many countries. It applies.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Does it say I can't take the cover off?
What it says, is that the computer, as built, meets the legal RF emission specs. When you remove the cover you permit much more than the legal amount to escape, potentially causing interference. If you operate the computer so that it's no longer compliant, you are violating federal law.
On Thursday 19 October 2006 11:14, James Knott wrote:
What it says, is that the computer, as built, meets the legal RF emission specs. When you remove the cover you permit much more than the legal amount to escape, potentially causing interference. If you operate the computer so that it's no longer compliant, you are violating federal law.
No.... I'm not breaking any laws. But if anyone claims interference, than I am responsible to clear it if possible. (see later posts on this subject)
Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 17:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
You produce electromagnetic interference.
The correct airflow is spoiled (air loops and no flow in certain areas).
You do it your way, I'll do it my way. :-)
If you have a commercially produced computer, you may notice a label about FCC (or other regulatory) complance. That compliance was obtained with all covers in place and running without the cover will increase the interference potential to users of the radio spectrum.
Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 15:31, Greg Wallace wrote:
Don't they get dirty faster that way? Or do you mean just the cover on the power supply box?
Not in my opinion.... and it lets you see better when they do get dirry and it's an easy task to shut them down, cool them off, and then blow the dirt out.
Not to hijack things here., But one should be very careful and not have the meter probe short out things on the motherboard. The probe tip is generally much bigger than the distance between conductors on the board. One little momentary slip can cause big problems. That said go ahead , it will be a great learning experience. Another thing to point out is the Dell in their infinite wisdom , have changed around some of the wires on some of their power supply/motherboard connectors. This resulting in if you replace the motherboard or the power supply with other than Dell components will damage both the power supply and mother board. I do not have which models that they have done this on, as I have quit recommending them, and I am even very reluctant to even work on the ones that people bring me to fix. -- Robert Cunningham Sr. Physics Laboratory Coordinator /RSO
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2006-10-19 at 10:15 -0400, Robert Cunningham wrote:
Another thing to point out is the Dell in their infinite wisdom , have changed around some of the wires on some of their power supply/motherboard connectors.
Oh, my! :-( - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFN4u+tTMYHG2NR9URAuBLAJ4pJWPLirG/cXhN1MNScjkpGq4OXwCfT7vj tSQ1HBuMlo/JRqqY/kQXt7c= =pAaH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 18 October 2006 15:18, Greg Wallace wrote:
Ok, no pulling out wires. In looking at my box (from memory) the power box is up against one side of the chasis. The wires are coming out of the side. So, it sounds like I'd have to unscrew all of the screws holding the lid on the box in order to get inside where I could reach the contacts.
You mean you still have the cover on your computer?????
(5 running computers in this house and not one has a full cover on it) :-)
One thing to bear in mind is the potential for RF interference from those computers. A computer generates a lot of RF noise.
On 06/10/18 14:18 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
Ok, no pulling out wires. In looking at my box (from memory) the power box is up against one side of the chasis. The wires are coming out of the side. So, it sounds like I'd have to unscrew all of the screws holding the lid on the box in order to get inside where I could reach the contacts.
If the case is not open, you cannot even see the plug that you need to stick the multimeter probe in to test voltages. On many Dell puters no screws need be removed to open up the case to replace a HD or video card or check voltages.
As I recall, all of the wires came out of one round hole, so it probably wouldn't be possible to do this without pulling the lid off of the power box to get to the source of the wires.
Never under any circumstances but one other than post electronics school graduation open up the power supply box. The one exception to that would be to replace a dead fan. There's nothing else you can accomplish in there. It's the other end of the wires coming from it that need to be tested.
Thanks for the info on where to get the tool. If the problem wasn't solved by my re-seating the vide card, I'll be looking into the power supply as the next likely source and will need to buy one of these probes.
The probe is just part of the multimeter tool assembly available from Fry's and Radio Shack and Sears and elsewhere (probably even Wal Mart too) that you'll need to perform voltage checks. Here's an example: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103174 -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 @ 2:52 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/18 14:18 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
Ok, no pulling out wires. In looking at my box (from memory) the power box is up against one side of the chasis. The wires are coming out of the side. So, it sounds like I'd have to unscrew all of the screws holding the lid on the box in order to get inside where I could reach the contacts.
If the case is not open, you cannot even see the plug that you need to stick the multimeter probe in to test voltages. On many Dell puters no screws need be removed to open up the case to replace a HD or video card or check voltages.
You're talking about the case around the entire computer as opposed to the case around the power supply, which what I was talking about.
As I recall, all of the wires came out of one round hole, so it probably wouldn't be possible to do this without pulling the lid off of the power box to get to the source of the wires.
Never under any circumstances but one other than post electronics school graduation open up the power supply box. The one exception to that would be to replace a dead fan. There's nothing else you can accomplish in there. It's the other end of the wires coming from it that need to be tested.
Thanks for the info on where to get the tool. If the problem wasn't solved by my re-seating the vide card, I'll be looking into the power supply as
Ok. In a note I just read from Randall Schulz, I now take it that I check the voltage on each wire at the point where it connects to the mother board, right? the
next likely source and will need to buy one of these probes.
The probe is just part of the multimeter tool assembly available from Fry's and Radio Shack and Sears and elsewhere (probably even Wal Mart too) that you'll need to perform voltage checks. Here's an example: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103174
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
Greg Wallace
Greg Wallace wrote:
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 @ 10:08 PM, Randall Schulz wrote:
Greg,
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 19:30, Greg Wallace wrote:
...
Randall: I don't have any electronic gear, so I'd be starting from scratch. Sounds like you're saying that to do the testing you unplug each wire one at a time and plug some device into that socket to test its voltage, repeating the process until you've tested each socket, is that right?
Absolutely not! If you don't have hardware problems now, you will after you're done with that. And it won't be power supply problems, it'll be mainboard component damage.
No, what I'm saying is that the tip of the multimeter probe can be inserted at the top of the power supply connector (the side opposite from the PC board, which which the wires leave it) to contact the exposed upper end of the connector's pin.
I'm sorry if this is confusing or I'm not being clear. I've been doing this kind of thing since I was 10, so I probably take too much for granted.
Greg Wallace
Randall Schulz
Ok, no pulling out wires. In looking at my box (from memory) the power box is up against one side of the chasis. The wires are coming out of the side. So, it sounds like I'd have to unscrew all of the screws holding the lid on the box in order to get inside where I could reach the contacts.
You might want to consider something like this. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=16606
James, On Thursday 19 October 2006 07:40, James Knott wrote:
...
You might want to consider something like this.
I mentioned such products (though not any specific model) a while back. The problem with these devices is that they do not test the supply under load. Randall Schulz
Randall R Schulz wrote:
James,
On Thursday 19 October 2006 07:40, James Knott wrote:
...
You might want to consider something like this.
I mentioned such products (though not any specific model) a while back.
The problem with these devices is that they do not test the supply under load.
I wonder if someone sells a Y adapter, so that you could use it with a load? If not, it shouldn't be too hard to make one.
On 06/10/17 15:10 (GMT-0400) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
Wow. Sounds to me like there's no really accurate way to test the power supply. Maybe the best bet would be to exhaust all other possibilities and if the problem persists just replace the power supply to see if that fixes it.
Those of us with more than about 2 puters keep spares of stuff like this. Module swapping is the easiest way to troubleshoot. Find out if your Dell uses a standard ATX power supply, then if it does, consider buying one if only for dealing with problems like you have now. I was going to suggest getting one like the last I bought. Newegg has been having $10 off sales on it every weekend for a month at least, but it seems others are finding it a problem: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817171007 Mine works fine, in an old system that blew 3 power supplies in less than 6 months. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On 06/10/17 13:48 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
So you would unplug that wire bundle and stick a multimeter into the socket to test the voltage? Is that how it would work?
No. You turn your system on, and while it's working, stick a multimeter voltage probe in the back of the plug one non-black wire at a time to see if the voltage matches any of the voltages on the sticker on the side of the power supply. You try again when it acts up and see if any have changed. In your case, more likely the video card is the problem than the power supply, but you can't rule out either without some testing and/or parts swapping. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2006-10-16 at 19:19 -0500, Greg Wallace wrote:
1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes up, no disk activity, nothing.
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means .
What docs. I got zilch in the way of documentation with this Dell machine, and Dell tech support couldn't tell me what two beeps meant (actually, they took off on a tangent and didn't even try to answer that question, about what I've come to expect from their tech support).
Before doing anything else, like cleaning, testing this or that, replacing components, etc, you'd better find out what those beeps means in your system, because that will tell you at least the area of the problem. The snag is that they are not standardized :-( - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFNDIKtTMYHG2NR9URAq1mAJ9Uz8+wLzjrFqNLFw9kbnOTAegvMwCbBAQS piZboheK4ndxUQh3afhF0Vk= =flm8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 8:30 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Monday 2006-10-16 at 19:19 -0500, Greg Wallace wrote:
1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes up, no disk activity, nothing.
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means .
What docs. I got zilch in the way of documentation with this Dell machine, and Dell tech support couldn't tell me what two beeps meant (actually, they took off on a tangent and didn't even try to answer that question, about what I've come to expect from their tech support).
Before doing anything else, like cleaning, testing this or that, replacing components, etc, you'd better find out what those beeps means in your system, because that will tell you at least the area of the problem.
The snag is that they are not standardized :-(
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
I have no idea how to find this out. The Dell tech support took off in a completely different direction when I asked this question, basically ignoring my question about the 2 beeps. I also scoured the Dell website and found nothing. Greg Wallace
The Dell tech support took off in a completely different direction when I asked this question, basically ignoring my question about the 2 beeps. Usually the 2 beeps means that the bios has detected a hardware change. This can be the result of a bad memory post, failed keyboard init, or dead cmos battery as examples. Can you see the boot-up bios messages when it beeps and hangs... or are
On Monday 16 October 2006 21:04, Greg Wallace wrote: they hidden behind some proprietary splash? You might try changing the cmos battery if its older than (3) years. -- Kind regards, M Harris <><
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 9:17 PM, M Harris wrote:
The Dell tech support took off in a completely different direction when I asked this question, basically ignoring my question about the 2 beeps. Usually the 2 beeps means that the bios has detected a hardware change. This can be the result of a bad memory post, failed keyboard init, or dead cmos battery as examples. Can you see the boot-up bios messages when it beeps and hangs... or are
On Monday 16 October 2006 21:04, Greg Wallace wrote: they hidden behind some proprietary splash?
I see nothing. The disk is spinning and the machine is apparently booting, but the screen is completely blank.
You might try changing the cmos battery if its older than (3) years.
Does a desktop machine have a cmos battery? If so, could you tell me how to find it?
-- Kind regards,
M Harris <><
Thanks, Greg Wallace
On 06/10/16 23:33 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
Does a desktop machine have a cmos battery? If so, could you tell me how to find it?
Usually looks like a nickel with no face on either side, typically a 3 volt #2032 available anywhere disk batteries are sold, like Wal Mart or Walgreens. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2006-10-17 at 00:46 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/16 23:33 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
Does a desktop machine have a cmos battery? If so, could you tell me how to find it?
Usually looks like a nickel with no face on either side, typically a 3 volt #2032 available anywhere disk batteries are sold, like Wal Mart or Walgreens.
He means where inside the portable can he find it, and if it exists. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFNNAwtTMYHG2NR9URAkOfAJ9/c7EzzpGiTrZ1d5vWR+bnRWJT3wCgjeES OfSlF8u94OD3JhrFU30YPJQ= =Rl0f -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Does a desktop machine have a cmos battery? If so, could you tell me how to find it? Yes, every machine has one... as mentioned above it is usually a CR2032 and is about the size of a US nickel, mounted on the main logic board in a small black housing with a spring clip. The battery holds the cmos (bios) settings, and powers the on-board clock. Sometimes if they have a low voltage (or if they become corroded) the main logic board will complain on startup (usually a couple of beeps) with some kind of message about faulty cmos settings "loading from default" (although some systems aren't that specific) and the machine will either proceed with default cmos settings or it will "hang" waiting for user response. Sometimes the machine will give no such warning and it will either not boot, or it will behave in an erratic way. If
On Monday 16 October 2006 23:33, Greg Wallace wrote: the machine is fairly new, I might pop out the battery and clean the contacts... otherwise, if the machine is 3+ years old I would replace the battery. The CR2032 is very common and can be found almost anywhere batteries are sold... they can be pricy though... $5 -- $9 depending. -- Kind regards, M Harris <><
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 @ 10:49 AM, M Harris wrote:
Does a desktop machine have a cmos battery? If so, could you tell me how to find it? Yes, every machine has one... as mentioned above it is usually a CR2032 and is about the size of a US nickel, mounted on the main logic board in a small black housing with a spring clip. The battery holds the cmos (bios) settings, and powers the on-board clock. Sometimes if they have a low voltage (or if they become corroded) the main logic board will complain on startup (usually a couple of beeps) with some kind of message about faulty cmos settings "loading from default" (although some systems aren't that specific) and the machine will either proceed with default cmos settings or it will "hang" waiting for user response. Sometimes the machine will give no such warning and it will either not boot, or it will behave in an erratic way. If
On Monday 16 October 2006 23:33, Greg Wallace wrote: the machine is fairly new, I might pop out the battery and clean the contacts... otherwise, if the machine is 3+ years old I would replace the battery. The CR2032 is very common and can be found almost anywhere batteries are sold... they can be pricy though... $5 -- $9 depending.
-- Kind regards,
M Harris <><
When my problem raises its head, I don't even get a bios screen. I mean, there is absolutely no output to the monitor period. Could a bad CMOS battery cause that? Greg Wallace
On 06/10/17 14:05 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
When my problem raises its head, I don't even get a bios screen. I mean, there is absolutely no output to the monitor period. Could a bad CMOS battery cause that?
No. Your problem has nothing to do with a CMOS battery. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 18:13, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/17 14:05 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
When my problem raises its head, I don't even get a bios screen. I mean, there is absolutely no output to the monitor period. Could a bad CMOS battery cause that?
No. Your problem has nothing to do with a CMOS battery. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ =========
Felix, I might tend to agree with you except I've worked on a computer that had a lot of the symptoms Greg has experienced and it was the CMOS battery causing it! The batteries are cheap, buy one and replace it to check. bye Lee
On 06/10/17 18:46 (GMT-0400) BandiPat apparently typed:
I might tend to agree with you except I've worked on a computer that had a lot of the symptoms Greg has experienced and it was the CMOS battery causing it! The batteries are cheap, buy one and replace it to check.
Was it a Dell? The Dells I've worked on don't need CMOS batteries, as long as they're kept plugged in, same as other puters with 2032 batteries. I've never yet found a 4 year old 2032 on a motherboard that didn't read at least 3v either, and I buy my 2032s in boxes of 10 or 12. Last batch of 8 or 10 I replaced were up to 10 years old (assuming installed when mobo manufactured up to 10 years ago). Half were 3v or more, and none were less than about 2.8v, plenty more than CMOS actually needs. -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 19:04, Felix Miata wrote:
On 06/10/17 18:46 (GMT-0400) BandiPat apparently typed:
I might tend to agree with you except I've worked on a computer that had a lot of the symptoms Greg has experienced and it was the CMOS battery causing it! The batteries are cheap, buy one and replace it to check.
Was it a Dell? The Dells I've worked on don't need CMOS batteries, as long as they're kept plugged in, same as other puters with 2032 batteries. I've never yet found a 4 year old 2032 on a motherboard that didn't read at least 3v either, and I buy my 2032s in boxes of 10 or 12. Last batch of 8 or 10 I replaced were up to 10 years old (assuming installed when mobo manufactured up to 10 years ago). Half were 3v or more, and none were less than about 2.8v, plenty more than CMOS actually needs. ===========
I too have only had to replace a couple of batteries in machines I've worked on, but it doesn't mean they don't go bad. Just as I experienced with the one computer, so it could be with Greg's unit. Ugh! Dell!!! Oh you must be joking? Dell computers are broken by their very nature! I could understand those not needing a battery! They don't really work well with or without a battery! I try to stay away from those beasts. To answer your question, if you didn't already figure it out, no it was not a Dell. bye Lee
On 06/10/16 21:04 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means
I have no idea how to find this out. The Dell tech support took off in a completely different direction when I asked this question, basically ignoring my question about the 2 beeps. I also scoured the Dell website and found nothing.
http://www.bioscentral.com/postcodes/dellbios.htm -- "The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped." Psalm 28:7 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
On Mon October 16 2006 17:19, Greg Wallace wrote:
On Monday, October 16, 2006 @ 2:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Subject: Re: [SLE] Need help diagnosing hardware problem
On 06/10/16 13:30 (GMT-0500) Greg Wallace apparently typed:
I am having a hardware problem with my machine and am trying to diagnose
it.
The first thing that happens is that my screen freezes. It has always happened when my screen saver was running, but I'm assuming that's just a coincidence. After the screen saver freezes, here are some things that
have
happened on reboot.
What happens if you disable the screensaver and DPMS?
Could a screensaver problem cause the machine to not be able to re-boot? I forgot where DMPS is controlled. Could you tell me how to turn it off?
1) The computer beeps twice and nothing happens. No bios screen comes
up,
no disk activity, nothing.
Check the docs on your BIOS to find out exactly what 2 beeps means
.
What docs. I got zilch in the way of documentation with this Dell machine, and Dell tech support couldn't tell me what two beeps meant (actually, they took off on a tangent and didn't even try to answer that question, about what I've come to expect from their tech support).
2) There is disk activity as if the machine is booting, but the screen
is
blank.
3) Once, the machine actually booted, but what was on the screen was
pure
garbage -- a screen full of letters overlaying other letters overlaying icons, etc. There wasn't a centimeter of blank screen space. It was completely covered with this garbage.
My guess would be that I've got a video card going out, but item 1) makes
me
wonder. Could a bad video card actually cause the machine to just give
two
beeps and not even try to boot?
All symptoms point to a video card problem, but this includes a possible video card slot problem. A BIOS may balk at continuing POST when it thinks it's supposed to have working video.
.
I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself. Other than the instance with the two beeps (which might could be caused by a video card problem, though I have no way of knowing), all of the other cases resulted in me not seeing any activity on the screen at boot up. I mean I didn't even get the bios screen. Then there was the time when the screen was just completely covered in garbage. Even the time when I got the two beeps I still didn't get anything on the screen. I'm thinking I might just spring for a new video card just to see if that fixes it. I don't do any heavy graphics, so I could get by with a fairly cheap bare bones type of card anyway, so it probably wouldn't cost too much just to try that.
In all cases, if I let the machine sit for maybe just 5 minutes it will re-boot normally (so far, anyway, but I tend
to
think the problem will get worse over time). Once it's back up, it will
run
for some time with no problems (I don't recall it ever happening back to back on the same day, but if I left it up long enough the second time I suspect it would ultimately lock up again). There's some pattern here in all of this, but also some inconsistency. Any help diagnosing this
problem
greatly appreciated.
These time differences make it appear it may be heat and/or voltage (and thus power supply) related. If it hasn't had a dust removal since it was new, that's probably long overdue. If the machine was here, my 3rd move would be to see what happens with a different video card, 2nd being test
the
PS, 1st being cleaning. If you don't have another card to try, at least try reseating yours. Try leaving the cover off and pointing a big fan at it to see if less heat is any help. If you have any cards in slots that aren't necessary to run the OS, pull them out to see if it changes anything.
1. Cleaning -- Well, I cleaned it out as best I could. I tried a vacuum and a wisk broom. It's hard to a lot of the areas because of all of the things sticking up in the air and covering other things up. I have to say, however, that it really didn't look all that dirty. Not a good idea, both can generate static electricity and in todays machines, static is deadly to logic cards. If you vacumn just use the nozel, no brushes. Also make sure you are grounded. grounding straps are cheap at the computer stores.
2. Power supply -- How does one test the power supply? If you have a digital volt meter you could use that. the two beeps mean different things depending on your BIOS. Look at: http://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm#05
Overall, as I said above, I'm suspecting a bad video card as the culprit.
Thanks, Greg Wallace
-- Russ
On Monday 16 October 2006 20:19, Greg Wallace wrote:
I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself.
Have you checked to see if the fan on the video card is working? That would cause the overheating. (assuming it has a fan) Since I have no need for high-speed graphics and I got tired of replacing fans (where possible), I have switched most of my machines to video cards that don't have fans.
On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 @ 6:38 AM, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Monday 16 October 2006 20:19, Greg Wallace wrote:
I'm starting to suspect the video card as the problem myself.
Have you checked to see if the fan on the video card is working? That would cause the overheating. (assuming it has a fan)
Since I have no need for high-speed graphics and I got tired of replacing fans (where possible), I have switched most of my machines to video cards that don't have fans.
No fan on this card (Radeon VE). I had a card with a fan once and that fan went out. No more graphics than I do, I don't need a monster card that requires a fan to cool it. Greg Wallace
participants (18)
-
Anders Johansson -
BandiPat -
Benjamin Rosenberg -
Bruce Marshall -
Carl William Spitzer IV -
Carlos E. R. -
Curtis Rey -
Doug McGarrett -
Felix Miata -
Greg Wallace -
James Knott -
M Harris -
Peo Nilsson -
Peter Nikolic -
Randall R Schulz -
Rikard Johnels -
Robert Cunningham -
Russbucket