On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:24:56 +0300 (AST) "David Robertson" wrote:

...

OK - it's not what you asked but - why IBM? There are many, much "better" laptops out there, unless you're restricted by purchasing policy at work ,for example.

David

**********

IBM seems to support linux and I need a linux friendly laptop.

There's no doubt that IBM make very solid laptops but they are by no means the only Linux-friendly ones: the converse isn't necessarily true, either! I'm running SuSE 9.1 on an HP Pavilion zd7000 and previously had an ASUS L/C3000 - no problems with either. Worked out of the box (except for wireless on the Pavilion, which is fine now, after some fiddling). Just might be worthwhile casting your net a little wider. You might want to take a look at http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ Please don't think I'm trying to put you off IBM...........! David

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

On Saturday 31 July 2004 10:29, Richard Mixon (qwest) wrote:

David, good point. I recommended the IBM's in an earlier post. But the truth is I just do not have experience with HP notebooks (though my earlier Compaq experience was not good). My brother told me he just decided to go with an HP notebook for his son going off to college - "just" so he would have some HP experience and shut me up :) I'll take your work for it that they work fine. My issue has always been the support two years down the road.

I, too, run an HP --ze5570-- and have had pretty darn good luck w/getting things set up. The internal modem had problems on 9.1 so I reverted to 9 Pro, the wireless works, the wired NIC works, I didn't mess w/the IR so don't know. All in all, my HP experience has been a positive one, though I noted that each & every time I applied any updates to the installation things started breaking. This happened three or four times in a row, so I just stay w/what comes off the CD-Rs --though I do have roughly 60 RPMs installed from various other sources, as well, so that is not a limitation. FWIW... -- ...CH "The more they over-think the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." Scotty

On Saturday 31 July 2004 07:31 am, David Robertson wrote:

There's no doubt that IBM make very solid laptops but they are by no means the only Linux-friendly ones: the converse isn't necessarily true, either!

 I'm running SuSE 9.1 on an HP Pavilion zd7000 and previously had an ASUS L/C3000 - no problems with either. Worked out of the box (except for wireless on the Pavilion, which is fine now, after some fiddling). Just might be worthwhile casting your net a little wider. You might want to take a look at http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/

Please don't think I'm trying to put you off IBM...........!

David

Before you get to far into selecting a laptop, google on 'complaint ' and see what kind of troubles you can expect from the various makers. IBM was one of the few mfrs that didn't return a bunch of hits and horror stories when I ran the test a month or so ago. I found many BAD stories about Sony, Gateway, Dell, Compaq and HP to name a few. Caveat Emptor! Richard

On Saturday 31 July 2004 13:13, Jerry Feldman wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:59:43 -0500

Richard Atcheson wrote:

...

I found many BAD stories about Sony, Gateway, Dell, Compaq and HP to name a few. Caveat Emptor!

While working at Compaq (actually the Alpha group not the PC people), I was helping a friend with his laptop. We could not get Linux to recognize the NIC. I spoke to the technical product managers as well as the guys at Conexant (The chip mfr) and Dave Becker. Essentially, Conexant told me to go to hell as they did not have the time to write a Linux driver or to give the info to Dave. My neighbor wanted me to install SuSE on his Compaq box ...no dice. Coudn't even get a boot off installation media. Wonder what it is about Compaq.

My HP has a Conexant internal modem & that works great (when the SuSE driver pkg is installed). I think many of the companies must guard their driver info closely. Wish more would be forthcoming for Linux. -- ...CH "The more they over-think the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." Scotty

BandiPat wrote:

On Saturday 31 July 2004 01:59 pm, Richard Atcheson wrote:

...

On Saturday 31 July 2004 07:31 am, David Robertson wrote:

...

There's no doubt that IBM make very solid laptops but they are by no means the only Linux-friendly ones: the converse isn't necessarily true, either!

I'm running SuSE 9.1 on an HP Pavilion zd7000 and previously had an ASUS L/C3000 - no problems with either. Worked out of the box (except for wireless on the Pavilion, which is fine now, after some fiddling). Just might be worthwhile casting your net a little wider. You might want to take a look at http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/

Please don't think I'm trying to put you off IBM...........!

David

Before you get to far into selecting a laptop, google on 'complaint ' and see what kind of troubles you can expect from the various makers. IBM was one of the few mfrs that didn't return a bunch of hits and horror stories when I ran the test a month or so ago.

I found many BAD stories about Sony, Gateway, Dell, Compaq and HP to name a few. Caveat Emptor! Richard

-----------------------------

The simple thing to do would be to download the SuSE 9.1 Live CD and burn the iso to a disc. Take it to the store with you and try it on any laptop you are interested in to see how well it works. That should give you a reasonably good idea of what you are getting.

Lee

Not necessarily. That Live CD failed on 3 of 3 computers that I tried it on, including my ThinkPad, which runs SuSE 9.1 Pro very well. All of those 3 computers were also able to run the 9.0 Live Eval.

Well, as for laptops, I personally prefer by FAR the IBM laptop T-Series... And for IBM Lappers, that's the only series I really like... Now, there is a group in Atlanta that will preconfig and ship a lapper with whichever linux mutation you wish. Ran into them at Linuxworld this spring in NYC. Checkout www.emperorlinux.com HTH DR2 ----------------------------------------------------------- On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, James Knott wrote:

Johan Sch wrote:

...

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:24:56 +0300 (AST) "David Robertson" wrote:

...

...

Hi List,

Looking at IBM laptops I see the following..for processors..

Intel p4 .. various speeds. celerion .. various speeds. centrino .. various speeds.

The centrino seem to be the slower one than the other two.

Do not mind price .. hardware .. trying to find what would be best in long run between the 3 processors.

Kindly some pointers and suggestions to IBM laptops .. please.

OK - it's not what you asked but - why IBM? There are many, much "better" laptops out there, unless you're restricted by purchasing policy at work ,for example.

David

**********

IBM seems to support linux and I need a linux friendly laptop.

Actually, there are some companies, that sell Linux equipped notebooks. Look up Angle Computers for one.

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Besides www.linux-on-laptops.com, take a look at http://www.tuxmobil.org It's an excellent resource. Barry

Actually, there are some companies, that sell Linux equipped notebooks. Look up Angle Computers for one.

this now includes HP http://tinyurl.com/53cyr (full URL at below). It even comes with SuSE! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/03/fina... -- Jesse

On Tuesday 03 August 2004 09:19 pm, Brian Pack wrote:

On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 23:32, Jesse wrote:

...

...

Actually, there are some companies, that sell Linux equipped notebooks. Look up Angle Computers for one.

this now includes HP http://tinyurl.com/53cyr (full URL at below). It even comes with SuSE!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/03/f inancial1657EDT0259.DTL

But they still leave a lot of unsupported hardware. I got this in reply to me query re: hp scanjet 4670:

currently HP does not support any scanner in the Linux operating system

feh.

So what? The very nature of linux means that if the device is supported by any distro you can get it working in any other distro. If the don't work anywhere they probably won't work on HP installations of SuSE either. But the fact that they now market a SuSE machine can't help but light a fire under them to get all models supported... HP has links to this page: http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/suplist.shtml and the Xsane project has an extensive list of supported devices here. http://www.sane-project.org/sane-backends.html Re the 4670 the Xsane project says: http://www.sane-project.org/unsupported/hp-scanjet-4600.html You would think they would want to support their own devices, but this is a big company with many disjoint parts - and lots of left-hand right-hand problems. Reading the machine specs also reveals they don't support swappable cdrom /crburners /dvd burners either. Yet we know that all works. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:32:40 -0700 Jesse wrote:

...

Actually, there are some companies, that sell Linux equipped notebooks. Look up Angle Computers for one.

this now includes HP http://tinyurl.com/53cyr (full URL at below). It even comes with SuSE!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/03/fina...

I would like to mention that HP (not HP classic, but actually it's former Digital side) joined the Linux bandwagon back in 1993 or earlier. Jim Paradis ported 32 bit Linux to the Alpha chip, and subsequently Linus ported a full 64 bit Linux to the Alpha chip. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

Jerry Feldman wrote:

A friend of mine has an IBM Thinkpad T42 and has some problems with support for the Centrino chipset. He is running SuSE 9.1.

I would strongly suggest that you go to http://www.linux-on-laptops.com before buying a laptop.

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:42:26 +0200 Johan Sch wrote:

...

Hi List,

Looking at IBM laptops I see the following..for processors..

Intel p4 .. various speeds. celerion .. various speeds. centrino .. various speeds.

The centrino seem to be the slower one than the other two.

Do not mind price .. hardware .. trying to find what would be best in long run between the 3 processors.

Kindly some pointers and suggestions to IBM laptops .. please.

I will be crossing that bridge very soon. Thanks Hi Johan,

I read an article the other day about Intel and their chip strategy. From what I can remember they were going to discontinue the Centrino and concentrate on the Pentium - M. Perhaps you should check the above first, as 5 years down the line you do not want to have to buy another laptop because your chip is not manufactured any longer. Personally I would go the route of AMD, or at worst Intel P4-M, but I am currently unsure of AMD's mobile offerings. -- The Little Helper ======================================================================== Hylton Conacher - Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org Currently using SuSE 9.0 Professional with KDE 3.1 Licenced Windows user ========================================================================

John, On Sunday 01 August 2004 02:19, John Andersen wrote:

On Saturday 31 July 2004 10:12 am, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:

...

Perhaps you should check the above first, as 5 years down the line you do not want to have to buy another laptop because your chip is not manufactured any longer.

Huh? Why would that make a difference? Its not like CPUs burn out and have to be replaced periodically like oil filters on a car.

Yes and no. It's true if they're never subjected to overvoltage, overclocking or overheating (by being denied sufficient ventilation, usually). But processors don't always operate in benign circumstances. I just lost a two-year-old P4 CPU in my desktop system because I neglected to clean out what turned out to be an huge amount of dust _between the CPU heatsink fins_! I'll never make that mistake again. I decided to upgrade my motherboard when I got the new CPU and the new MB has variable CPU fan control. I discovered that when I put the side on the cabinet, the CPU fan quickly speed up from the 2500 RPM at which it ran with the case open to about 3800 RPM (in a fairly cool room, though not a frigid machine room). From this I conclude that ventilation in the main compartment of this case is rather poor. I plan to add a front-panel fan to the cabinet. When I told a friend about my system's recent breakdown, he mentioned that he once had a laptop that would begin to malfunction if used with the top closed (by using an external CRT monitor). Opening the lid allowed it to cool just enough for the malfunctions to cease. A lot of modern computer systems are designed or operated at the very edge of their acceptable environmental parameters, and that's not a recipe for reliability or longevity.

I submit that in 5 years you WILL want to buy another laptop because of new features and speed - all of which are not attainable with your current laptop motherboard.

This is probably true, too, but nowadays, there are lots of good uses for non-cutting-edge computers (unlike those based on a first-generation Pentium, say, or a 100 MHz PowerPC chip--and even those systems can have uses for some people), so while some may be willing to walk away from a system after a few years, others may want to consider them a longer-term investment. Randall Schulz

James, On Sunday 01 August 2004 09:14, James Knott wrote:

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

John,

On Sunday 01 August 2004 02:19, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Saturday 31 July 2004 10:12 am, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:

...

Perhaps you should check the above first, as 5 years down the line you do not want to have to buy another laptop because your chip is not manufactured any longer.

Huh? Why would that make a difference? Its not like CPUs burn out and have to be replaced periodically like oil filters on a car.

Yes and no. It's true if they're never subjected to overvoltage, overclocking or overheating (by being denied sufficient ventilation, usually). But processors don't always operate in benign circumstances.

I just lost a two-year-old P4 CPU in my desktop system because I neglected to clean out what turned out to be an huge amount of dust _between the CPU heatsink fins_! I'll never make that mistake again.

Unless you're capable of replacing the CPU yourself, you'll have to send it in for repair. In that case the repair will likely mean replacement of the system board, which will likely cost close to the cost of a new computer, assuming it's even available. That sort of problem exists, even with desktop systems. Try to find parts for a 5 year old motherboard. Even memory may be scarce for older systems.

It's not magic, brain surgery or rocket science. I've built, repaired and modified systems for years. A few basic precautions and knowledge are sufficient. Everything one needs to know is available on the 'net (along with lots of bad advice, of course!). It's also true that very few components in modern systems are socketed, but the ones most likely to fail (CPU and RAM) are, so the potential to repair the most common failures is still there. As to finding replacement parts, that can be a challenge, especially if you insist on new parts, but there are tons of systems getting retired every year filled with perfectly functional components that are ripe for reuse. Isn't that what Ebay is for? (I wouldn't really know, never having used it, but...) Randal Schulz

John, On Sunday 01 August 2004 14:07, John Andersen wrote:

On Sunday 01 August 2004 06:57 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

I decided to upgrade my motherboard when I got the new CPU and the new MB has variable CPU fan control.

Exactly my point Randall... ;-)

Even on your desktop you decided it was not worth the trouble to JUST replace the cpu, you decided to upgrade.

Actually, there's more to the story than I'm letting on. I replaced the dead CPU and given my extremely limited budget, was hoping to make do with that. However, the old board would not use the new chip. According to the diagnostic LEDs, it thought the processor was defective. According to the manufacturer's site, a BIOS upgrade is required. I was in a bit of a pickle, given the need for a functioning CPU to perform a BIOS update (and no one I know has a system with a compatible CPU that I could swap in to perform the BIOS update). Furthermore, I'm dead in the water without my home desktop, since I'm self-employed and the computer is the the one indispensable tool in my business (software development). So in the name of expediency, I bought a new motherboard, but I would not have done so were it not for the unusual circumstances surrounding the upgrade.

But if you burn a cpu on a lap top you will quite likely have other damage as well, and replacing a mobo is not an option on a laptop (unless it happens in warranty). Its just not cost effective.

I've never personally known anyone who has upgraded or replaced the CPU on a laptop, although I have heard of folks doing in on various mailing lists. Usually when the cpu price has fallen to dirt-cheap and mostly because they are out of production, and there is no commercial demand for them any more. So sometimes becoming obsolete is a good thing. ;-)

I don't know much about laptops. I've never owned one, mostly 'cause I cannot bring myself to spend money on portability--I'm compelled to put my dollars into performance, instead. Randall Schulz

John Andersen wrote:

On Saturday 31 July 2004 02:42 am, Johan Sch wrote:

...

Hi List,

Looking at IBM laptops I see the following..for processors..

Intel p4 .. various speeds. celerion .. various speeds. centrino .. various speeds.

The centrino seem to be the slower one than the other two.

Do not mind price .. hardware .. trying to find what would be best in long run between the 3 processors.

Kindly some pointers and suggestions to IBM laptops .. please.

FYI: The A3 models of IBM were particularly good for Linux - obsolete now. Several SONY models are feature for feature identical to some IBM models and there is a active support group on the linux-sony mailing list (google for it). I like my Sony.

Something to consider: Don't get built in wireless. You have the pcmcia slot and might as well use it. ANY builtin wireless will obsolete before this time next year (usable but obsolete). The wireless field is changing so fast it makes little sense to have this embedded.

FWIW, this ThinkPad R31 came with built in 802.11b wireless, which works fine with SuSE. For my needs, it's adequate. Also, IBM has produced WiFi upgrades for some models. The upgrade involves simply replacing one small board.

On Tuesday 03 August 2004 10:38 am, Tims Suse List wrote:

On Sat, 2004-07-31 at 11:42, Johan Sch wrote:

...

Hi List,

Looking at IBM laptops I see the following..for processors..

I know this is not a link to an IBM - but it is HP and appears to have SuSE installed if you want it:

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/321957-64295-89315-321838-f33 -395654.html

Tim

Yeah, $50 off the price of the same machine with XP, but they claim that the builtin wireless won't work under SuSE. Musta never heard of Driverloader or ndiswrapper.... -- _____________________________________ John Andersen