I am having a problem with 8.2 not keeping time. Each time I boot, it has gained or lost several seconds. There is no consistency with the amount, and it is altering the bios clock. For example, as test, I set the bios clock accurately and booted 8.2. The KDM clock was 9 seconds fast, so I rebooted. This time it was 22 seconds fast. I re-set the clock in KDE and rebooted. Again it was several seconds fast (6 seconds this time), and it had altered the bios clock to its setting. It is only 8.2 which has done this. I have not come across this problem before in any earlier versions. Also I am running the latest Mandrake to look at that distro. It keeps perfect time, as does Windows98 (which I specially blew the cobwebs off to try!) Finally, I reinstalled SuSE8.1 on a spare hard drive, and that keeps perfect time. So it is only 8.2 which doesn't. I have each distro on its own hard drive. Each drive is in a tray and I plug into the computer whichever tray (operating system) I want to use. So the test conditions are the same. Has anyone else this problem with 8.2? It's infuriating having to re-set the time each time I boot it - which can be several times a day as I don't leave the computer on when I am not using it.. Cheers Keith
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Keith just had to get this off his chest:
I am having a problem with 8.2 not keeping time.
Each time I boot, it has gained or lost several seconds. There is no consistency with the amount, and it is altering the bios clock.
[:21,41d rant] If you're that worried about losing or gaining seconds I would suggest you either use xntp and an always-on Internet connection to keep the clock on time, or go out and buy yourself a Shortwave Radio clock (DCF77 is the "standard" in Europe) or a GPS receiver and connect that to a parallel/serial port. See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/Clock.html The BIOS clock is inherently unstable, and broken by design (like the whole PC design is, but that, as they say, is another story). Theo -- Theo v. Werkhoven Registered Linux user# 99872 http://counter.li.org ICBM 52 13 27N , 4 29 45E. SuSE 8.2 x86 Kernel k_Athlon 2.4.20-4GB See headers for PGP/GPG info.
The 03.04.18 at 23:41, Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:
clock on time, or go out and buy yourself a Shortwave Radio clock (DCF77 is the "standard" in Europe) or a GPS receiver and connect that to a parallel/serial port. See http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/Clock.html
There are two links on that howto, both "not found on this server": http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/index.htm http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/wwvstatus.html. seems to be: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/%7emills/ntp/index.html http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/ -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
The 03.04.18 at 18:54, Keith Powell wrote:
Has anyone else this problem with 8.2? It's infuriating having to re-set the time each time I boot it - which can be several times a day as I don't leave the computer on when I am not using it..
I don't have 8.2, so I don't know if this still holds, but I guess it does. How do you set up time? Using a kde gadget, perhaps? Doing so on a suse system might throw the clock off - there is an article on the sdb about that. If you manually adjust the clock, you have to set up the hardware clock from system clock as well, and then delete the file "/etc/adjtime". If you don't, the file "/etc/init.d/boot.clock" will get confused and use the wrong time adjustement the next time you boot. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Friday 18 April 2003 10:54, Keith Powell wrote:
I am having a problem with 8.2 not keeping time.
Each time I boot, it has gained or lost several seconds. There is no consistency with the amount, and it is altering the bios clock.
Has anyone else this problem with 8.2? It's infuriating having to re-set the time each time I boot it - which can be several times a day as I don't leave the computer on when I am not using it..
Cheers
Keith
I have had this problem in 8.0 and 8.1 on my two computers. Jerome
On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:41, Jerome Lyles wrote: Hello, good morning, is there some way to correct this problem ?
On Friday 18 April 2003 10:54, Keith Powell wrote:
I am having a problem with 8.2 not keeping time.
Each time I boot, it has gained or lost several seconds. There is no consistency with the amount, and it is altering the bios clock.
Has anyone else this problem with 8.2? It's infuriating having to re-set the time each time I boot it - which can be several times a day as I don't leave the computer on when I am not using it..
Cheers
Keith
I have had this problem in 8.0 and 8.1 on my two computers. Jerome
On 04/19/2003 08:15 PM, Marco Oliveira wrote:
On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:41, Jerome Lyles wrote:
Hello, good morning, is there some way to correct this problem ?
Try deleting /etc/adjtime and then reboot. IIRC, your system will auto create it and correct the problem (it did for me back with 7.3). If you want, mv it to another name to have a backup. YMMV, -- Joe Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Web Address: http://www.mydestiny.net/~joe_morris Registered Linux user 231871 God said, I AM that I AM. I say, by the grace of God, I am what I am.
On Saturday 19 April 2003 11:33, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote: Thanks for your help. I believe the problem was corrected. Can you explain why this appends ?
On 04/19/2003 08:15 PM, Marco Oliveira wrote:
On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:41, Jerome Lyles wrote:
Hello, good morning, is there some way to correct this problem ?
Try deleting /etc/adjtime and then reboot. IIRC, your system will auto create it and correct the problem (it did for me back with 7.3). If you want, mv it to another name to have a backup. YMMV,
The 03.04.19 at 12:24, Marco Oliveira wrote:
Thanks for your help. I believe the problem was corrected. Can you explain why this appends ?
It is documented - somewhere on the SDB :-) There are two clocks on any PC. One is the hardware or CMOS clock, that runs from the battery when the computer is off. The other is the system time, maintained by the CPU counting timer interrupts. The system time is set up from the CMOS clock during boot up. Now, it is possible to know how much that clock drifts (all quartz clocks are accurate, but have a constant error that can be compensated). When the clock is adjusted, suse Linux is set up as to save the amount of correction you added and do it for you next time you boot (/etc/init.d/boot.clock): echo -n Setting up the CMOS clock test -f /etc/adjtime || echo "0.0 0 0.0" > /etc/adjtime /sbin/hwclock --adjust $HWCLOCK rc_status /sbin/hwclock --hctosys $HWCLOCK Then, when the system is stopped, script "/etc/init.d/halt" does this: if test "$HWCLOCK_ACCESS" != "no" ; then if rc_active xntpd ; then echo -n "Set Hardware Clock to the current System Time" # write back to hardware clock and calculate adjtime /sbin/hwclock --systohc $HWCLOCK rc_status -v -r fi fi Therefore, if you manually adjust the system clock, the relation between system and hardware clocks are set out of balance, and the automatic adjustment will in fact set it wrong. The correct procedure for setting up the time (not adjusting) would be: 1) set the system time 2) copy system to hardware clock (hwclock --systohc) 3) Delete /etc/adjtime -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Saturday 19 April 2003 11:33, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote: Goog morning, doing this it works, but after shuting down, it happens again. I'm working with suse 8.1 BR
On 04/19/2003 08:15 PM, Marco Oliveira wrote:
On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:41, Jerome Lyles wrote:
Hello, good morning, is there some way to correct this problem ?
Try deleting /etc/adjtime and then reboot. IIRC, your system will auto create it and correct the problem (it did for me back with 7.3). If you want, mv it to another name to have a backup. YMMV,
On Sunday 20 April 2003 12:27, Carlos E. R. wrote: Thanks for your time. up to now, i believe that i resolved the problem. We will see tomorrow. Best Regards
The 03.04.20 at 11:19, Marco Oliveira wrote:
doing this it works, but after shuting down, it happens again. I'm working with suse 8.1
Update hardware clock first, then delete that file (see my previous post).
On 04/20/2003 07:19 PM, Marco Oliveira wrote:
doing this it works, but after shuting down, it happens again. I'm working with suse 8.1
Did you try to follow http://sdb.suse.de/en/sdb/html/bjacke_hwclock.html? -- Joe Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Web Address: http://www.mydestiny.net/~joe_morris Registered Linux user 231871 God said, I AM that I AM. I say, by the grace of God, I am what I am.
On Sunday 20 April 2003 13:14, Joe Morris (NTM) wrote: Thanks for the tip. This time probably the problem will be solved. this kind of things occurs in others distros or it is tipical in suse ? thanks for your time.
On 04/20/2003 07:19 PM, Marco Oliveira wrote:
doing this it works, but after shuting down, it happens again. I'm working with suse 8.1
Did you try to follow http://sdb.suse.de/en/sdb/html/bjacke_hwclock.html?
The 03.04.20 at 16:58, Marco Oliveira wrote:
Thanks for the tip. This time probably the problem will be solved. this kind of things occurs in others distros or it is tipical in suse ?
I think it may be tipical of suse; at least, if I believe a friend of mine who uses windows and tries linux mandrake, suse and others like linex, it is when he uses suse that the clock goes off track - till I told him how to avoid the problem, but he took some convincing :-) The suse way works very well if you just uses suse linux all the time, but not so well if you double boot, or if you change the system time without paying attention to the hardware clock. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Sunday 20 April 2003 07:26 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The 03.04.20 at 16:58, Marco Oliveira wrote:
Thanks for the tip. This time probably the problem will be solved. this kind of things occurs in others distros or it is tipical in suse ?
I think it may be tipical of suse; at least, if I believe a friend of mine who uses windows and tries linux mandrake, suse and others like linex, it is when he uses suse that the clock goes off track - till I told him how to avoid the problem, but he took some convincing :-)
The suse way works very well if you just uses suse linux all the time, but not so well if you double boot, or if you change the system time without paying attention to the hardware clock.
-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
I don't think that's completely correct Carlos. On my machine, dual-booting (actually, SuSE 8.2,8.0, and W98SE), my clock has always worked fine. My friends system, who dual-boots also with SuSE 8.0 and W98SE, goes whacko every once in a while with the time, so I figure, it's got to be something with the hardware or the BIOS, *not* the SuSE software. Of course I don't know how to check this, but since it works for me and not my friend, and the same with others...some works fine, some doesn't, and *knowing* that not everyone could possibly have the same hardware all the time sort of makes my theory more concrete (in my mind at least, heh). Take it easy and be good, John
The 03.04.21 at 09:43, John wrote:
The suse way works very well if you just uses suse linux all the time, but not so well if you double boot, or if you change the system time without paying attention to the hardware clock.
I don't think that's completely correct Carlos. On my machine, dual-booting (actually, SuSE 8.2,8.0, and W98SE), my clock has always worked fine. My friends system, who dual-boots also with SuSE 8.0 and W98SE, goes whacko every once in a while with the time, so I figure, it's got to be something with the hardware or the BIOS, *not* the SuSE software.
Mmmm... yes and no. There is nothing wrong with suse software (ie, the scripts); what I mean is, that if misused, the clock may go way off track. I also double boot to windows, and at least once the clock went off by one or two hours. But after I noticed how suse scripts are adjusting the clock, that doesn't happen - so far :-) I think... I remember once when windows changed from summer saving time to winter or vice versa, and when I was back in Linux, I noticed the time was one hour off; I adjusted it, probably using the gadget in kde: then it is when I threw the clock off its tracks.
Of course I don't know how to check this, but since it works for me and not my friend, and the same with others...some works fine, some doesn't, and *knowing* that not everyone could possibly have the same hardware all the time sort of makes my theory more concrete (in my mind at least, heh). Take it easy and be good,
:-) No, I don't think is the hardware, nor the software: It is the user ;-) It is explained somewhere on the suse SDB. What I understand is - more or less -, that if you change, say, your system clock one hour fast (but only system time, not hardware time) when the computer is halted, the halt script notes the difference of one hour, and will save on the adjustment file that the clock is slow by, say, one hour every day: so the boot script will make the adjustment automatically when you boot up. That is the idea, but of course, thinking that you want to compensate seconds or minutes at the most, and that you had set it to the exact time and seconds the first time. If you - we :-) - are not doing that, it is better that we delete the adjustment file to disable the automatics, at least for this once. Then, if you use xntp or similar, or even the radio, the adjustment will be made with exactitude, and the scripts will work as expected. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Monday 21 April 2003 07:05 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The 03.04.21 at 09:43, John wrote:
The suse way works very well if you just uses suse linux all the time, but not so well if you double boot, or if you change the system time without paying attention to the hardware clock.
I don't think that's completely correct Carlos. On my machine, dual-booting (actually, SuSE 8.2,8.0, and W98SE), my clock has always worked fine. My friends system, who dual-boots also with SuSE 8.0 and W98SE, goes whacko every once in a while with the time, so I figure, it's got to be something with the hardware or the BIOS, *not* the SuSE software.
Mmmm... yes and no. There is nothing wrong with suse software (ie, the scripts); what I mean is, that if misused, the clock may go way off track. I also double boot to windows, and at least once the clock went off by one or two hours. But after I noticed how suse scripts are adjusting the clock, that doesn't happen - so far :-)
I think... I remember once when windows changed from summer saving time to winter or vice versa, and when I was back in Linux, I noticed the time was one hour off; I adjusted it, probably using the gadget in kde: then it is when I threw the clock off its tracks.
<small snip>
No, I don't think is the hardware, nor the software: It is the user ;-)
It is explained somewhere on the suse SDB. What I understand is - more or less -, that if you change, say, your system clock one hour fast (but only system time, not hardware time) when the computer is halted, the halt script notes the difference of one hour, and will save on the adjustment file that the clock is slow by, say, one hour every day: so the boot script will make the adjustment automatically when you boot up.
That is the idea, but of course, thinking that you want to compensate seconds or minutes at the most, and that you had set it to the exact time and seconds the first time.
If you - we :-) - are not doing that, it is better that we delete the adjustment file to disable the automatics, at least for this once.
Then, if you use xntp or similar, or even the radio, the adjustment will be made with exactitude, and the scripts will work as expected.
-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
Heh, makes a lot more sense than what I had to say about it! LOL. At least it got us to 'thinking' more about it and someone (you) figured it out pretty much. Man, but I love the people who use Linux...the air-heads are so few and far between as to be almost non-existant! Be good and take care, John -- A butterfly is: Pretty,soft,harmless...and useless, just like M$N. My Penguin eats butterflies.
The 03.04.21 at 23:23, John wrote: [No need to quote so much]
Heh, makes a lot more sense than what I had to say about it! LOL. At least it got us to 'thinking' more about it and someone (you) figured it out pretty much. Man, but I love the people who use Linux...the air-heads are so few and far between as to be almost non-existant!
Thank you: But I'm just a user with a lot of curiosity. When I find a problem, I like to worry it till solved, if possible. All that would not be needed if someone (from suse) documented how the distro is glued together, how things are expected to work and how they should be used and how not. They make a great documentation, by all means, but not yet enough, not about "the internals". Many of this things are documented in lots of text files (many unrelated), and as coments inside scripts. It's "just" a problem of finding them :-) The SDB is just great :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
* Marco Oliveira (marco_oliveira@netvisao.pt) [030419 04:11]: ->On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:41, Jerome Lyles wrote: -> ->Hello, good morning, is there some way to correct this problem ? Try using xntp ..it works. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I'll tell you what you should see.
On Saturday 19 April 2003 18:08, Ben Rosenberg wrote: How can i do that ?
* Marco Oliveira (marco_oliveira@netvisao.pt) [030419 04:11]: ->On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:41, Jerome Lyles wrote: -> ->Hello, good morning, is there some way to correct this problem ?
Try using xntp ..it works.
On Sunday 20 April 2003 16:36, Marco Oliveira wrote:
On Saturday 19 April 2003 18:08, Ben Rosenberg wrote:
How can i do that ?
Activate the service in the runlevel editor part of yast, then go to www.ntp.org to find a suitable server (local to you, second tier, public access). Open /etc/ntp.conf in a text editor (as root) and find the section: ## ## Outside source of synchronized time ## server some.ntp.server # IP address of server and put your server in there to replace the one that's there. Dylan
* Marco Oliveira (marco_oliveira@netvisao.pt) [030419 04:11]: ->On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:41, Jerome Lyles wrote: -> ->Hello, good morning, is there some way to correct this problem ?
Try using xntp ..it works.
-- Sweet moderation Heart of this nation Desert us not We are between the wars - Billy Bragg
The 03.04.20 at 15:36, Marco Oliveira wrote:
How can i do that ?
You can only use xntp if you have a permanent network connection. If you use dial-up, insert a call to "rcxntpd ntptimeset" on one of you ip-up scripts (see poll-tcpip). You'll have to configure "/etc/ntp.conf" first. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
"Carlos E. R."
You can only use xntp if you have a permanent network connection. If you use dial-up, insert a call to "rcxntpd ntptimeset" on one of you ip-up scripts (see poll-tcpip). You'll have to configure "/etc/ntp.conf" first.
Or use the package 'chrony' (http://chrony.sunsite.dk/index.php) which is designed for use by dial-up systems.
It is only 8.2 which has done this. I have not come across this problem before in any earlier versions. Also I am running the latest Mandrake to look at that distro. It keeps perfect time, as does Windows98 (which I specially blew the cobwebs off to try!)
You were lucky with Windows98 then. There are various bugs where the clock can actually be seen to stop and start loosing a second or so each time. We use wireless clocks when an internet conection is not available, and internet NTP when it is. Logs generally show 1 or 2 seconds 'drift' over a few hours on all machines, so hourly updates are needed for precise work. -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services
What worked for me: I dual, triple, quadruple, quintuple boot various OSes and what was making my clock drift the most was booting between Microsoft OSes and SuSE when I had "hardware clock" set to UTC in SUSE (YaST2, System, Select Time Zone, bottom right corner). Make sure SuSE (7.3, 8.0, 8.1, 8.2) is set for localtime and <-NOT-> UTC time if you EVER boot Windows. If you never boot Windows you can have it set to UTC or localtime. Then use ntp for always-on or dial-up connections as necessary to get the correct time set. Stan
participants (12)
-
Ben Rosenberg -
Carlos E. R. -
Dylan -
Graham Murray -
Jerome Lyles -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
John -
Keith Powell -
Lester Caine -
Marco Oliveira -
Stan Glasoe -
Theo v. Werkhoven