. Most everyone has learned to *never* upgrade, and to do clean installs about every other version. On Monday, 22 April 2002 9:01, you wrote:

On Friday 19 April 2002 13:49, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

Hi,

...

Trying to update a 7.2 box to 8, and I am failing at first base.

If I select system update in Yast2, although it identifies that the souce medium is SuSE8, it finds no packages to update aftering doing the package 'search'.

Having tried this on another 7.3 machine with the same results, I took advantage of the 'free phone support', for the first time (excellent service BTW), and it seams that this is a known issue, but there isn't a solution yet.

So is this happenning to everyone, or is everyone doing clean installs?

Phil

. Oh, everybody knows there are exceptions. But I think his question was 'What is the easiest and best way to get to 8?'. I think implicit in this is 'and safe too.' My personal experience and that of many others is that sometimes you get 'ragged upgrades', failed upgrades, or intermittant unexplained problems if you do not do a clean install. I don't like combing through and hand-customizing all the millions of files either, but it's *more* important that I have a stable system, as it is in production. We don't want to turn off any more people than we already do with complex problems, that can be avoided. On Monday, 22 April 2002 10:35, you wrote:

quantum@ultra2k.com wrote:

...

. Most everyone has learned to *never* upgrade, and to do clean installs about every other version.

But there is no reason to not at least *try* and save yourself some work. I've only had 1 upgrade fail. In that case the fist upgrade attempt failed so I did a clean install, then restored my config files. Done. If it works, the extra 15 minutes spent starting the upgrade is a worthwhile investment in time.

In the coming round of upgrades I have one pc designated for a clean install, the others will be upgraded. I make it a habit to at least try it unless there is an overriding reason not to. The vast majority of times it works fine. The usual case where it fails is when you have compiled software and installed it without building rpm's, in which case yast has no idea what is installed on your system anyway, therefore either doesn't know what to upgrade or guesses wrong. The bottom line is: If you are going to upgrade anyway, you've got nothing to lose but time.

Just my .02

John Scott

...

...

...

Trying to update a 7.2 box to 8, and I am failing at first base.

<snip>>

...

So is this happenning to everyone, or is everyone doing clean installs?

Phil

On Monday 22 April 2002 15:35, John Scott wrote: Hi,

The usual case where it [Upgrade] fails is when you have compiled software and installed it without building rpm's, in which case yast has no idea what is installed on your system anyway, therefore either doesn't know what to upgrade or guesses wrong.

This is my situation. I would guess it would take me at least a day or so to build the system from scratch (main due to custom software building a configing), so it is worth me trying to get the upgrade working. Phil -- Linux 2.4.4-4GB 5:02pm up 3 days, 4:00, 1 user, load average: 0.23, 0.24, 0.18

On Monday 22 April 2002 14:01, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

On Friday 19 April 2002 13:49, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

Hi,

...

Trying to update a 7.2 box to 8, and I am failing at first base.

If I select system update in Yast2, although it identifies that the souce medium is SuSE8, it finds no packages to update aftering doing the package 'search'.

Having tried this on another 7.3 machine with the same results, I took advantage of the 'free phone support', for the first time (excellent service BTW), and it seams that this is a known issue, but there isn't a solution yet.

So is this happenning to everyone, or is everyone doing clean installs?

Phil Hi.. I did the upgrade from 7.3 using the cd upgrade not yast and it worked very well....Took abt 30 minutes and no problems at all....

-- Regards Ted Wager SuSE Linux

On Monday 22 April 2002 20:45, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

On Monday 22 April 2002 18:11, Ted Wager wrote:

Hi,

...

I did the upgrade from 7.3 using the cd upgrade not yast and it worked very well....Took abt 30 minutes and no problems at all....

What do you mean by the CD upgrade? I tried 'booting' from the 8.0 CD1, but it seams not to be bootable, whereas other versions are.

Phil Mine booted ok from the dvd...

-- Regards Ted Wager SuSE Linux

Dear List, Here is a direct 'cut-n-paste' from a SuSE Support email reply: "The upgrade of 7.2 to 8.0 is neither supported nor recommended by SuSE." I do not know why or other details. ............. PeterB 4/23/02 6:55:26 PM, scsijon wrote:

I wonder if the problem is with yast2's changes!

Has anyone tried updating their yast2 ONLY (manually) from 8's cd's and then trying?

my 2 bits scsijon

At 02:01 PM 4/22/02 +0000, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

...

On Friday 19 April 2002 13:49, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

Hi,

...

Trying to update a 7.2 box to 8, and I am failing at first base.

If I select system update in Yast2, although it identifies that the souce medium is SuSE8, it finds no packages to update aftering doing the package 'search'.

Having tried this on another 7.3 machine with the same results, I took advantage of the 'free phone support', for the first time (excellent service BTW), and it seams that this is a known issue, but there isn't a solution yet.

So is this happenning to everyone, or is everyone doing clean installs?

Phil -- Linux 2.4.4-4GB 1:58pm up 3 days, 56 min, 1 user, load average: 0.56, 0.51, 0.70

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com

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Hi SuSE folks, I have SuSe 7.2 pro, which I clean installed from my SuSE 6.4. The problem I have now with buying 8.0 is this; since upgrading to 7.2 pro I've been forcing myself to become more and more a SuSE user and less and less a Window$ user. This means I have a ton of saved documents I don't want to loose. Another consideration: it's taken me this long to get 7.2 to run as smoothly as it is now. I'm down to only a couple of things I need to fix and I'll have it the way I want it. Question: Does SuSE 8.0 support the same backup system 7.2 had - taper - or do I need to backup my documents some other way? Would it be better just to upgrade my kernel? I still have 2.4.4. Can 2.4.18 be used to upgrade 7.2? Thanks, Tom ><> <>< One of the hardest points to get past in spiritual formation is that in order for me to be spiritually transformed, I have to want to not want what I now want. -- Philosophy professor Dallas Willard - (quoted in Explorer, Mar 12, 2001, ) ><> <>< This message originated from a Unix computer using Open Source software: SuSE Linux 7.2 Pro, Galeon 1.0.3 Browser, AbiWord 0.99.3 Word Processor, Ximian Gnome 1.4.0.6 and Evolution 1.0.3 Groupware Suite. Have a lot of fun!!! (Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) On Thu, 2002-04-25 at 05:33, scsijon-tpg wrote:

oh well, i'll await 8.1 before I start setting up the next test systems then, and hope they've fixed it by then. I have too many suse 7.2 intranet web servers working out there to worry about changing because suse haven't got there act together (for once).

scsijon

At 09:17 AM 4/24/02 -0500, Peter B. Van Campen wrote:

...

Dear List,

Here is a direct 'cut-n-paste' from a SuSE Support email reply:

"The upgrade of 7.2 to 8.0 is neither supported nor recommended by SuSE."

I do not know why or other details. ............. PeterB

4/23/02 6:55:26 PM, scsijon wrote:

...

I wonder if the problem is with yast2's changes!

Has anyone tried updating their yast2 ONLY (manually) from 8's cd's and then trying?

my 2 bits scsijon

...

On Friday 19 April 2002 13:49, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

Hi,

...

Trying to update a 7.2 box to 8, and I am failing at first base.

If I select system update in Yast2, although it identifies that the souce medium is SuSE8, it finds no packages to update aftering doing the

At 02:01 PM 4/22/02 +0000, Phil Shrimpton wrote: package

...

...

'search'.

Having tried this on another 7.3 machine with the same results, I took advantage of the 'free phone support', for the first time (excellent service BTW), and it seams that this is a known issue, but there isn't a solution yet.

So is this happenning to everyone, or is everyone doing clean installs?

Phil -- Linux 2.4.4-4GB 1:58pm up 3 days, 56 min, 1 user, load average: 0.56, 0.51, 0.70

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com

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How much additional space required to upgrade to Suse 8.0 from Suse 7.2? -----Original Message----- From: Drew J. Como [mailto:dcomo@bascom.com] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 1:01 PM To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: RE: [SLE] 7.2 -> 8 update problem Tom, You raise a few points here. If all you want is a kernel upgrade, you can download the sources for 2.4.19, build it, install it into your /boot folder, modify your boot loader and reboot your machine. If you want to take advantage of the new distro (all new packages, new KDE, etc. ) you will want to upgrade to or freshly install SuSE 8.0. I personally do not upgrade OS', I start clean. (I do however, update my kernels) ============================================ Drew J. Como Phone: 631-434-6600 Systems Administrator Fax: 631-434-7800 dcomo@bascom.com Web: www.bascom.com Bascom Global Internet Services, Inc. -------------------------------------------- "When quality is the goal, winning is guaranteed." -----Original Message----- From: Thomas E. Beasley, Jr. [mailto:beesknees@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:07 PM To: SUSE LINUX POST Subject: Re: [SLE] 7.2 -> 8 update problem Hi SuSE folks, I have SuSe 7.2 pro, which I clean installed from my SuSE 6.4. The problem I have now with buying 8.0 is this; since upgrading to 7.2 pro I've been forcing myself to become more and more a SuSE user and less and less a Window$ user. This means I have a ton of saved documents I don't want to loose. Another consideration: it's taken me this long to get 7.2 to run as smoothly as it is now. I'm down to only a couple of things I need to fix and I'll have it the way I want it. Question: Does SuSE 8.0 support the same backup system 7.2 had - taper - or do I need to backup my documents some other way? Would it be better just to upgrade my kernel? I still have 2.4.4. Can 2.4.18 be used to upgrade 7.2? Thanks, Tom ><> <>< One of the hardest points to get past in spiritual formation is that in order for me to be spiritually transformed, I have to want to not want what I now want. -- Philosophy professor Dallas Willard - (quoted in Explorer, Mar 12, 2001, ) ><> <>< This message originated from a Unix computer using Open Source software: SuSE Linux 7.2 Pro, Galeon 1.0.3 Browser, AbiWord 0.99.3 Word Processor, Ximian Gnome 1.4.0.6 and Evolution 1.0.3 Groupware Suite. Have a lot of fun!!! (Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) On Thu, 2002-04-25 at 05:33, scsijon-tpg wrote:

oh well, i'll await 8.1 before I start setting up the next test systems then, and hope they've fixed it by then. I have too many suse 7.2 intranet web servers working out there to worry about changing because suse haven't got there act together (for once).

scsijon

At 09:17 AM 4/24/02 -0500, Peter B. Van Campen wrote:

...

Dear List,

Here is a direct 'cut-n-paste' from a SuSE Support email reply:

"The upgrade of 7.2 to 8.0 is neither supported nor recommended by SuSE."

I do not know why or other details. ............. PeterB

4/23/02 6:55:26 PM, scsijon wrote:

...

I wonder if the problem is with yast2's changes!

Has anyone tried updating their yast2 ONLY (manually) from 8's cd's and then trying?

my 2 bits scsijon

...

On Friday 19 April 2002 13:49, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

Hi,

...

Trying to update a 7.2 box to 8, and I am failing at first base.

If I select system update in Yast2, although it identifies that the souce medium is SuSE8, it finds no packages to update aftering doing the

At 02:01 PM 4/22/02 +0000, Phil Shrimpton wrote: package

...

...

'search'.

Having tried this on another 7.3 machine with the same results, I took advantage of the 'free phone support', for the first time (excellent service BTW), and it seams that this is a known issue, but there isn't a solution yet.

So is this happenning to everyone, or is everyone doing clean installs?

Phil -- Linux 2.4.4-4GB 1:58pm up 3 days, 56 min, 1 user, load average: 0.56, 0.51, 0.70

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com

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Okay, I was getting all set, then I stopped dead in my tracks when I read the subject of this thread. SO I waited. I saw that comment from Suse customer support saying that upgrade from 7.2 (which I have) to 8 is not supported. I guess the best thing to do is go out and buy another hard drive for my machine, snap it in, install 8 clean, copy over my old /etc/ directory and see if everything works. If yes, then I'm cool and I have a backup hard drive. If no, I save you nice people the trouble of reading increasingly pathetically desperate posts asking why my hoosit isn't working the way it used to. Anyone know of a good place online to buy hard drives for HP notebooks? Thanks, nick

So what is it that you need to move from Suse 7.2-8.0 without losing anything on your current system? how much additional space is required for the upgrade? -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lee [mailto:yid@softhome.net] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 2:02 PM To: Nick Selby; suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] 7.2 -> 8 update problem On Friday 26 April 2002 06:20 am, Nick Selby wrote:

I guess the best thing to do is go out and buy another hard drive for my machine, snap it in, install 8 clean, copy over my old /etc/ directory and

The layout of the /etc directory is one of the things that changed between 7.x and 8.0 because of an increased LSB complience, the /etc/rc.config concept has been dropped in favor of several files placed in /etc/sysconfig (I think that's the directory's name.) This is probably why they dropped Yast1, the new configuration file format would have needed a rewrite of much of the program. So I wouldn't reccomend copying over the /etc/ directory... -- Support your local police force -- steal!! -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com

On Mon, 2002-04-29 at 08:41, Phil Shrimpton wrote:

On Wednesday 24 April 2002 14:17, Peter B.Van Campen wrote:

Hi,

...

Here is a direct 'cut-n-paste' from a SuSE Support email reply:

"The upgrade of 7.2 to 8.0 is neither supported nor recommended by SuSE."

Well I upgraded to 7.3, and then tried the 8 upgrade and still had the same problems.

I guess a clean install is in the works :-(

the experience of a lot of people is that the upgrade feature hardly works.... clean install is what works ... that is a major problem Phil

-- Linux 2.4.4-4GB 12:39pm up 6 days, 17:55, 1 user, load average: 0.19, 0.12, 0.09

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On Monday 29 April 2002 18:02, James P. Bennett wrote:

Every user has customized her or his installation. Lots of rpm's for specialized applications install to /usr and not /usr/local.

Then the rpms are broken. The LSB clearly says that locally installed software should go in /usr/local. That tree is guaranteed not to be touched by upgrades. The upgrade procedure can do more or less what it likes to the rest of the /usr tree. Anders

On Monday 29 April 2002 18:50, James P. Bennett wrote:

A problem is that what's "locally installed" is not something that any single vendor controls. If a user grabs the latest version of

Actually, yes it is. The LSB defines /usr/local to be "empty after main installation" (is this fixed in 8.0 I wonder) Further, it says <quote> The /usr/local hierarchy is for use by the system administrator when installing software locally. It needs to be safe from being overwritten when the system software is updated. It may be used for programs and data that are shareable amongst a group of hosts but not found in /usr Locally installed software must be placed in /usr/local rather than /usr unless it is being installed to replace or upgrade software in /usr </quote> There is a footnote to this that says <quote> Software placed in / or /usr may be overwritten by system upgrades (though we recommend that distributions do not overwrite data in /etc under these circumstances). For this reason, local software must not be placed outside of /usr/local without good reason </quote>

GodzillaEatsSpam.rpm from the web, he or she will usually find it to be non-relocatable, won't (or can't) go beyond installation defaults to take the trouble of moving to /usr/local.

Then I suggest using rpm2cpio and manually installing the software. Or finding an LSB-compliant RPM.

Surely a vendor is not responsible for upgrading what's in /usr/local. I don't suggest that. But neither should installation of a new release require deleting GodzillaEatsSpam if it's in /usr: tarring to tape the fs, then doing clean install, then selectively untarring takes forever.

Am I wrong in thinking that, when the upgrade encounters /usr/bin/GodzillaEatsSpam, it (conceptually) asks:

0. Am I working interactively? y/n 1. Am I instructed to upgrade GodzillaEatsSpam? If yes, continue. If no... 2. ...Is GodzillaEatsSpam in the rpm database? If no, continue. If yes... 3. ...Am I about to annihilate files which GodzillaEatsSpam needs? If no, continue. If yes... 4. If I'm working interactively, warn user about imminent annihilation and ask instructions.

It could do that, but under the LSB it doesn't have to, and you shouldn't rely on such functionality. Anders

On Monday 29 April 2002 14:00, James P. Bennett wrote:

From: Anders Johansson

It could do that, but under the LSB it doesn't have to, and you shouldn't rely on such functionality.

Anders

Good point: it doesn't have to. (And I don't rely upon it ;) But I fear that whichever distribution can achieve painless upgrades first will blow the others away. In that contest, the enormous variety of applications which SuSE offers is actually a potential liability.

jim ========================

Jim, As a computer person I would think if you reread your last posted paragraph, you would say to yourself this is really never going to be possible! Upgrades are all painless, except for the problems the users adds to the upgrade. Nobody can possibly adjust for all the variables of what someone has done to their system since installing a fresh setup, just not possible. Same way for hardware, it is very nearly impossible to allow for all the diffrences in hardware today! If everybody followed the LSB to the letter than that would make it easier for a LSB compliant distro to upgrade, but that still can't take into account what the users have done beyond that. I see a lot of complaints on this list blaming SuSE or some other distro for different things and from what I can tell most can be attributed to the "short between the keyboard and chair" ! ;o) Patrick -- --- KMail v1.4 --- SuSE Linux Pro v8.0 --- Registered Linux User #225206 Magic Page Products -- Amiga-SuSE-PC Sales & Service URL: http://home.sprintmail.com/~tracerb

On Monday 29 April 2002 17:45, Thomas E. Beasley, Jr. wrote: Hi,

I was looking forward to 8.0. However, the need to do a clean install as apposed to doing an upgrade has caused me to look forward to 8.1 or 8.2. I have too many files to wipe it all away and start over. So, I'll stick with 7.2 pro until it's possible to upgrade rather than clean install.

I am in the same dilema. I did a clean install on a couple of desktops and the install went flawlessly, but my two main machines have too many 'custom' software and configurations to really wipe clean and start again. My main worry is that if 8.1+ still doesn not work on the upgrade it will be harder to do a clean install and get things up and running again. It would help if there was an app that created a list of all software and config files that were not part of the current installed version of SuSE so you have at least a detailed 'todo' list. Phil -- Linux 2.4.4-4GB 3:48pm up 8 days, 21:04, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01