Wasn't sure whether to put this on the general opensuse or the wiki mailing list... Anyway, there have been a few major changes to the beta release of 10.1 in recent weeks, the changing of the package manager libraries, removal of non-GPL drivers from the Kernel etc. There are a lot of interesting things going on with the openSUSE community and SUSE OSS, but none of this information is being released in a controlled fashion, this is a failing of Novell as much as SUSE, their website isn't any better when it comes to news. We get the information in dribs and drabs if we happen to be on the right mailing list and have time to read all of the mails that come through, and time to attend the IRC meetings. Having the information available buried in the archives of the mailing list which doesn't have a search function is not exactly helpful for casual users or thise interested in trying out SUSE, they come to the site and see next to no information on what is going on. The community has a lot to offer, but we need to work on our channels of communication. We have a news page, why not use it when we have such important changes coming up? AJ's information on the IRC meeting, for example, about the KPM replacing KP_ and moving non-GPL drivers out of the Kernel raised more questions than it answered. It is interesting for those that already know the background, but for those whose first introduction it is confusing to say the least. Information on what is happening, why, and how it will affect existing/upgrading users should be given out in a news flash or a story on the roadmap. Dave
On 2/15/06, David Wright
Wasn't sure whether to put this on the general opensuse or the wiki mailing list...
Anyway, there have been a few major changes to the beta release of 10.1 in recent weeks, the changing of the package manager libraries, removal of non-GPL drivers from the Kernel etc.
There are a lot of interesting things going on with the openSUSE community and SUSE OSS, but none of this information is being released in a controlled fashion, this is a failing of Novell as much as SUSE, their website isn't any better when it comes to news.
I totally agree and is one of the reasons I raised the subject of a front page re-design. Providing more information on the front page is a crucial part of this. Some things that I think needs to change. 1. All opensuse-announcements should be on the OpenSUSE News wiki page. Not just a one liner with a link to the mailing list archive. 2. A selection of other news worthy items should also go on this page. 3. The page should be included into the design of the front page. 4. The News page should be available via RSS, with free usage terms. ie allow anybody to do anything with the RSS. Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
Op dinsdag 14 februari 2006 21:54, schreef Peter Flodin:
Some things that I think needs to change. 1. All opensuse-announcements should be on the OpenSUSE News wiki page. Not just a one liner with a link to the mailing list archive. 2. A selection of other news worthy items should also go on this page. 3. The page should be included into the design of the front page. 4. The News page should be available via RSS, with free usage terms. ie allow anybody to do anything with the RSS.
Or just create a suse blog. Fits all 4 points above except the inclusion in the wiki front page. Bug making it a blog, makes it easy to include the rss feed into *planet* sides. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Or just create a suse blog. Fits all 4 points above except the inclusion in the wiki front page. Bug making it a blog, makes it easy to include the rss feed into *planet* sides.
Do we have a planet then? ;) Any SUSE staffers who want to get blogging and help the planet - drop me a line! -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Make Poverty History: http://makepovertyhistory.org
On Tuesday 14 February 2006 16:32, James Ogley wrote:
Or just create a suse blog. Fits all 4 points above except the inclusion in the wiki front page. Bug making it a blog, makes it easy to include the rss feed into *planet* sides.
Do we have a planet then? ;)
Any SUSE staffers who want to get blogging and help the planet - drop me a line!
http://www.planetsuse.org Joseph M. Gaffney aka CuCullin
Sorry, yes - I should have mentioned the URL shouldn't I? :) -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Make Poverty History: http://makepovertyhistory.org
On 2/15/06, Richard Bos
Op dinsdag 14 februari 2006 21:54, schreef Peter Flodin:
Some things that I think needs to change. 1. All opensuse-announcements should be on the OpenSUSE News wiki page. Not just a one liner with a link to the mailing list archive. 2. A selection of other news worthy items should also go on this page. 3. The page should be included into the design of the front page. 4. The News page should be available via RSS, with free usage terms. ie allow anybody to do anything with the RSS.
Or just create a suse blog. Fits all 4 points above except the inclusion in the wiki front page. Bug making it a blog, makes it easy to include the rss feed into *planet* sides.
Well 4. could be done by inserting an RSS feed into the wiki, there are Wikimedia Extensions that claim to do that http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wikipedia/extensions/rss/ And Novell already has an official company blog, so creating another one shouldn't be a big issue. This means that the openSUSE Blog would be the prime news vehicle, and RSS feed onto the front page of the wiki and elsewhere, it would be nice if it could automatically cc: the opensuse-announce list, as we know from earlier discussions that some people are sensitive about anything that potentially upsets their mailing list usage. Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
Am Dienstag, 14. Februar 2006 22:07 schrieb Richard Bos:
Op dinsdag 14 februari 2006 21:54, schreef Peter Flodin:
Some things that I think needs to change. 1. All opensuse-announcements should be on the OpenSUSE News wiki page. Not just a one liner with a link to the mailing list archive. 2. A selection of other news worthy items should also go on this page. 3. The page should be included into the design of the front page. 4. The News page should be available via RSS, with free usage terms. ie allow anybody to do anything with the RSS.
Or just create a suse blog. Fits all 4 points above except the inclusion in the wiki front page. Bug making it a blog, makes it easy to include the rss feed into *planet* sides.
I don't mind it being blogged, but the information provided, especially things like the change in the Kernel drivers and the package manager, need to be carefully thought out professionally presented with fully rounded information covering all aspects of the change, its implications etc. This could be done in a blog, but such statements of change in policy etc. and major changes in direction need to be carefully worded and they need to be "official". I have seen some very professionally produced blogs and I've seen a lot of rambling garbage that could, maybe, have important information buried somewhere... Dave
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Peter Flodin escribió:
Some things that I think needs to change. 1. All opensuse-announcements should be on the OpenSUSE News wiki page. Not just a one liner with a link to the mailing list archive. 2. A selection of other news worthy items should also go on this page. 3. The page should be included into the design of the front page. 4. The News page should be available via RSS, with free usage terms. ie allow anybody to do anything with the RSS.
Hi all: Everything what is to give information to people I believe that in principle that information is good.If in addition occurs of ordered form, I believe that it is better and people take more advantage of this. Thanks for the great work that make all those that to approach linux, and suse in this case, to people in general. - -- Chema Ollés Usuario Linux: #198057 Linux 2.6.15-git12-6-smp #1 SMP Tue Jan 17 14:22:14 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFD8kla65SpD7GhbzoRAhnCAJ4+HMLZthTwxFHDt72yhLU9mYpLpACggZ6g ubKqUAgUqWmn2go33gKeGYI= =fTjI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tuesday, 14. February 2006 21:54, Peter Flodin wrote:
Some things that I think needs to change. 1. All opensuse-announcements should be on the OpenSUSE News wiki page. Not just a one liner with a link to the mailing list archive. 2. A selection of other news worthy items should also go on this page.
It's a wiki. You can add and blow them up to more than one line, you know? Bye, Steve
On Tuesday, 14. February 2006 19:13, David Wright wrote:
Anyway, there have been a few major changes to the beta release of 10.1 in [..] Having the information available buried in the archives of the mailing list which doesn't have a search function is not exactly helpful for casual users or thise interested in trying out SUSE, they come to the site and see next to no information on what is going on.
You should really visit http://opensuse.org before posting I think, there is a news box on the front page, there is a news page - both pointing to a sum- mary of the changes you're complaining not being visible to casual users. Bye, Steve
Am Mittwoch, 15. Februar 2006 10:06 schrieb Stephan Binner:
On Tuesday, 14. February 2006 19:13, David Wright wrote:
Anyway, there have been a few major changes to the beta release of 10.1 in
[..]
Having the information available buried in the archives of the mailing list which doesn't have a search function is not exactly helpful for casual users or thise interested in trying out SUSE, they come to the site and see next to no information on what is going on.
You should really visit http://opensuse.org before posting I think, there is a news box on the front page, there is a news page - both pointing to a sum- mary of the changes you're complaining not being visible to casual users.
Bye, Steve
What is pointed to is a couple of lines about the KPM being available for non-GPL Kernel drivers to be converted to the new method. For driver writers already familiar with the situation it is a good pointer of where to go to find out how to write compliant drivers, for the average user it just raises a hell of a lot more questions than it answers... Leading to the FUD we are seeing, like the AVM discussion on the Factory list. It does not provide detailed information about what is changing (i.e. what exactly does it mean in terms of what the end user ends up with after an upgrade, will the packages be optionally available through the package manager, or are Novell throwing away the goodwill of existing users by making them trawl the net for replacements for things that used to be automatically configured?), why it is changing, what the current situation is in regard to the involvement of manufacturers re-writing their drivers to support the new method and what fallback plans Novell/openSUSE have if the drivers don't appear in time, so that users aren't stuck with broken installations after an upgrade. Dave
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 11:55:17AM +0100, David Wright wrote:
What is pointed to is a couple of lines about the KPM being available for non-GPL Kernel drivers to be converted to the new method. For driver writers already familiar with the situation it is a good pointer of where to go to find out how to write compliant drivers, for the average user it just raises a hell of a lot more questions than it answers... Leading to the FUD we are seeing, like the AVM discussion on the Factory list.
I agree that comunication should be better. However the amount of detail you want might be a bit over the top. First and formost the people should concentrate building SUSE. Then the postings about AVM. Untill will AVM respond and starts anwering questions and accept the offerd help, I connsider the posting somewhere between trolling and blackmail. Not sure wich one of the two is worse. It is the second mail and he just drops them in and then disapears. <snip frustration about the absence of detailed information> Please give them time to grow accustomed to this openness and give them time to respond. houghi -- Two can Live as Cheaply as One for Half as Long. -- Howard Kandel
I just went to www.Novell.fr and see... the fabulous SUSE Linux 9.3 :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 12:54:30PM +0100, jdd wrote:
I just went to www.Novell.fr and see... the fabulous SUSE Linux 9.3 :-(
Also when you type suse.fr as adress: http://www.novell.com/fr-fr/linux/suse/ SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3 Obtenir des informations sur le produit, son support et son téléchargement. Below that advertisement in English and links to en.openSUSE.org and not fr.openSUSE.org Strange also that the FOSDEM is on the en and not on the fr one. As if they don't welcome the French speaking people in Brussels. :-/ Don't get me wrong, I understand the enourmous undertaking of keeping a website available in several languages. houghi -- Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Barry
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 12:54:30PM +0100, jdd wrote:
I just went to www.Novell.fr and see... the fabulous SUSE Linux 9.3 :-(
Also when you type suse.fr as adress: http://www.novell.com/fr-fr/linux/suse/
SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3 Obtenir des informations sur le produit, son support et son téléchargement. Uuups, obviously its outdated on fr, it's correct on de and en pages. I'll make request to our web team that they change it. Thanks
Below that advertisement in English and links to en.openSUSE.org and not fr.openSUSE.org I am happy atm that there is an ad. And this page was set up when we haven't had fr.opensuse.org ;-)
Strange also that the FOSDEM is on the en and not on the fr one. As if they don't welcome the French speaking people in Brussels. :-/ The en page is the reference page. And of course we are intersted in french speaking people and asked jdd already (I guess 2-3 hours ago) if he could
On Wednesday 15 February 2006 13:20, houghi wrote: translate the page and set this up.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the enourmous undertaking of keeping a website available in several languages.
Yes, there is improvement needed. Michael
houghi
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nuremberg Phone: +49 911 74053-376 Email: michael.loeffler@suse.de Novell BrainShare 2006 - Open for Growth Bringing the world together at one location Register at http://www.novell.com/brainshare --------------------------------------------------------
Michael Loeffler wrote:
The en page is the reference page. And of course we are intersted in french speaking people and asked jdd already (I guess 2-3 hours ago)
?? not received, may be in my spam box :-( anyway I did the translation. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Am Mittwoch, 15. Februar 2006 20:16 schrieb jdd:
Michael Loeffler wrote:
The en page is the reference page. And of course we are intersted in french speaking people and asked jdd already (I guess 2-3 hours ago)
?? not received, may be in my spam box :-( anyway I did the translation.
oops, maybe because i pasted the wiki code directly in the mail ... ... anyway, thanks! -- with kind regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Lasarsch, Subsystems SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nuremberg martin.lasarsch@suse.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- simply change to www.suse.de
houghi wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I understand the enourmous undertaking of keeping a website available in several languages.
I made it here: http://fr.opensuse.org/Ev%C3%A9nements as the main page layout is still in discussion, I don't like too much to edit it, and had not yet had time to translate the new en page jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Stephan Binner wrote:
You should really visit http://opensuse.org before posting I think, there is a news box on the front page, there is a news page - both pointing to a sum- mary of the changes you're complaining not being visible to casual users.
but it's ratehr new, may be set after the previous posting :-). and it's a hand written add, on a protected page (not anybody can write this one). there should also be a way to keep the other <languages> main pages up. I don't really know how. on the fr one I set up a "french speaking" event with fosdem, but not on the front page (I can, but wonder exactly what to do) I noticed on alionet (forum) some suse infos (french new Novell People) - should be nice if I could have such info? is thgere a way for me to have a line from Novell France? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Am Freitag, 17. Februar 2006 07:33 schrieb scsijon:
At 05:13 AM 15/02/2006, you wrote:
Wasn't sure whether to put this on the general opensuse or the wiki mailing list...
?wiki mailing list
details please thanks scsijon
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate The mailing list for Wiki issues. As it releates to the opensuse wiki's level of information and news about opensuse, I wasn't sure whether to post it under a general opensuse heading or specifically at the wiki list. Dave
participants (12)
-
Chema Ollés -
David Wright -
houghi -
James Ogley -
jdd -
Joseph M. Gaffney -
Martin Lasarsch -
Michael Loeffler -
Peter Flodin -
Richard Bos -
scsijon -
Stephan Binner