[opensuse] rsync questions - backups - again !
Hello SuSE people, I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup. Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually? I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed. Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:40 -0500, Bob S wrote:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup.
Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually?
I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed.
Bob S
I'd like to hear what others say about "cloning" methods. But just to stick my two cents in, if you wanted to clone, I would suggest using dd rather than rsync. And then just dd the entire partition by block records. Depending on what additional options you would want to use, the basic syntax would be: dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/WhereverYouAreBackingUpTo/ (where if is your source and of is your destination) But if you're only interested in data backup, then rsync is probably your best bet. -- ---Bryen--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007, Bryen wrote:
On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:40 -0500, Bob S wrote:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup.
Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually?
I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed.
Bob S
I'd like to hear what others say about "cloning" methods. But just to stick my two cents in, if you wanted to clone, I would suggest using dd rather than rsync. And then just dd the entire partition by block records.
Depending on what additional options you would want to use, the basic syntax would be: dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/WhereverYouAreBackingUpTo/ (where if is your source and of is your destination)
But if you're only interested in data backup, then rsync is probably your best bet. -- ---Bryen---
I agree. dd will allow you to copy an entire partition block by block. This is good if you are replacing a hard drive and want to keep the partition layout the same. Rsync is better for doing things like incremental backups. I use a home-grown script run from a cron job to do a nightly backup of my home directory to a second hdd on the same machine. It isn't a pretty script (in fact, it's pretty crude) but it does the job that I need it to do. It consists of only one line: rsync --logfile=/var/log/home_backup -Ca /home/<username> /backup/<username>. This just compares each file in /home/<usersname> with its corresponding file in /backup/<username> and copies any that are new or have changed, resetting the archive bit for each file. I also have set up the log file in logrotate so that it rotates the logs and keeps 5 days worth. There are probably plenty of flaws in this backup method (I wouldn't use it in a business situation - I'd write something a little more sophisticated or run a commercial backup solution) but for my needs at home it works fine. I hope this is of some help. -- ====================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@optusnet.com.au ====================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 December 2007 06:44:06 Rodney Baker wrote:
Rsync is better for doing things like incremental backups. I use a home-grown script run from a cron job to do a nightly backup of my home directory to a second hdd on the same machine. It isn't a pretty script (in fact, it's pretty crude) but it does the job that I need it to do. It consists of only one line:
rsync --logfile=/var/log/home_backup -Ca /home/<username> /backup/<username>.
This just compares each file in /home/<usersname> with its corresponding file in /backup/<username> and copies any that are new or have changed, resetting the archive bit for each file. I also have set up the log file in logrotate so that it rotates the logs and keeps 5 days worth.
There are probably plenty of flaws in this backup method (I wouldn't use it in a business situation
Whyever not?
- I'd write something a little more sophisticated or run a commercial backup solution)
Which could well be based on rsync.
but for my needs at home it works fine.
And for all the machines I do this for across Internet for the past few years. -- Dave Cotton -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007, Dave Cotton wrote:
On Saturday 08 December 2007 06:44:06 Rodney Baker wrote:
Rsync is better for doing things like incremental backups. I use a home-grown script run from a cron job to do a nightly backup of my home directory to a second hdd on the same machine. It isn't a pretty script (in fact, it's pretty crude) but it does the job that I need it to do. It consists of only one line:
rsync --logfile=/var/log/home_backup -Ca /home/<username> /backup/<username>.
This just compares each file in /home/<usersname> with its corresponding file in /backup/<username> and copies any that are new or have changed, resetting the archive bit for each file. I also have set up the log file in logrotate so that it rotates the logs and keeps 5 days worth.
There are probably plenty of flaws in this backup method (I wouldn't use it in a business situation
Whyever not?
What i meant was that I wouldn't use my crude one-liner to do the job...
- I'd write something a little more sophisticated or run a commercial backup solution)
Which could well be based on rsync.
Yes, exactly. That was what I intended to imply.
but for my needs at home it works fine.
And for all the machines I do this for across Internet for the past few years.
-- Dave Cotton
-- ====================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@optusnet.com.au ====================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-12-08 at 16:14 +1030, Rodney Baker wrote:
I agree. dd will allow you to copy an entire partition block by block. This is good if you are replacing a hard drive and want to keep the partition layout the same.
Which means that if you clone the backup of an 100GB disk to a new 200GB disk, you will have 100GB and the empty space will not be accesible. Plus, dd will clone also whitespace, which is a waste. Minus, rsync is way faster, after the first time. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHWp9/tTMYHG2NR9URAtDQAJ9DTVmBo3qCq2VanS/VfotRQwm+3gCgjUOk GRuvCelZebMQyIQwCDEHNxk= =UkNH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rodney Baker wrote:
rsync --logfile=/var/log/home_backup -Ca /home/<username> /backup/<username>.
This just compares each file in /home/<usersname> with its corresponding file in /backup/<username> and copies any that are new or have changed, resetting the archive bit for each file.
Not to nitpick, but actually, rsync is smarter than that - it only copies the diff between the parts that have changed. If your data to be backed up consists of 2 10GB files, and you make a slight change (say 5 few kbytes) to each, rsync wouldn't copy 20 GB, but rather just the changed 10 kb, plus a bit of overhead. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, Joe Sloan wrote:
Rodney Baker wrote:
rsync --logfile=/var/log/home_backup -Ca /home/<username> /backup/<username>.
This just compares each file in /home/<usersname> with its corresponding file in /backup/<username> and copies any that are new or have changed, resetting the archive bit for each file.
Not to nitpick, but actually, rsync is smarter than that - it only copies the diff between the parts that have changed.
If your data to be backed up consists of 2 10GB files, and you make a slight change (say 5 few kbytes) to each, rsync wouldn't copy 20 GB, but rather just the changed 10 kb, plus a bit of overhead.
Joe
You're right - I remember reading that but I'd forgotten it. Thanks for the clarification. -- ====================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@optusnet.com.au ====================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Bob S wrote:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup.
Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually?
I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed.
Bob S
Hi Bob, I have written a comprehensive script to do just this. Typically, my customers have 7 sets of ext hdd (up to cust to decide how many) and they change it every day. It does a complete clone (250GB) in about 30 minutes (using rsync), If you are interested in the script - email me at otto@applied.com.sg and I will email you the script as attachment. You may need to modify the script slightly to adjust for number of partitions and such - the script is fairly well documented and readable. The nice thing about this is that in case of a sys crash, they simply swap disks and reboot. Rgds. Otto. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Quoting Bob S <911@sanctum.com>:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup.
Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually?
I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed.
For cloning partitions, 'dd' works fine. I suggest downloading and burning SystemRescueCD. It is intended for just this kind of thing (bare metal saves and restores). Also use md5sum on bothe source partition and the copy to check that the copy is good. Or mount the copy on a loop device. For example: mount /mnt/partitions/20071024/hda7.bin /mnt2 -t ext3 -r -o loop=/dev/loop3 (external USB drive is mounted at /mnt, this was on SuSE 10.0 where IDE drives were still hdX. Now I can access the old files at /mnt2 if needed and the act of mount does some kind of rudimentary filesystem check.) Someone has done some testing and found across a wide range of hardware that a blocksize of 8MB gives the best speed. For example: dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/mnt/partitions/2007-12-08/sda1 bs=8MB On SuSE 10.0 it made a huge difference. USB access is a lot faster on SuSE 10.3 so it won't make as much a difference. If your filesystem types are supported, you might try partimage. It creates filesystem images, instead of parition images, i.e., no empty space. Works across different source and destination partition sizes. For backup of a single system, I like rsnapshot. It uses rsync and does incremental backups. Rsnapshot is part of SuSE 10.3. I've restored files several times and it is straight forward. HTH, Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Bob S wrote:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup.
Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually?
I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed.
Bob S
Just a suggestion. I've been playing around with Mondo Rescue. [ http://www.mondorescue.org/ ] It's not exactly what your thinking of doing. It makes a CD/DVD set that will boot and reinstall your system EXACTLY as it was when the set was made. Then you could use a smaller backup set to replace any changes. It takes three "programs", Mindi, Mindi Busybox, and Mondo. Get the rpm's from Mondo Rescue to install. One portion is missing from the SuSE repos. You start it from CLI then get this rather DOS(y) looking GUI. Not exactly beautiful, but functional. Turn off everything that you don't need running. Start Mondo Archive. Be prepared to watch a good movie or two while it works. If you have any doubts about your hardware [ CD/DVD writer or media ] you might want to use the verify option. BUT, that means it will take about twice as long. If your absolutely sure of your stuff skip that part. Don't run off to far because it gets rather testy if you don't change the media in a timely manner. DON'T TAKE OUT THE MEDIA WHEN IT POPS THE DRAWER BETWEEN WRITE AND VERIFY!!!!!!!!!!!! You've been warned. Mondo is kind of like an avalanche. Once it's set in motion it's rather difficult to get back to the top of the mountain. For a program that you will probably use once, or maybe once every year or two, how fancy does it have to be. I'm still a long ways from being a Mondo Expert, but from what I've seen so far it looks VERY promising. I'm sort of stuck on excluding my Windows drive [ Yes, it will back it up right along with your Linux drive - about four DVD's on my system ] from the backup. I know theres something very simple I'm missing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 07:10 -0600, Billie Walsh wrote:
<SNIP>
It takes three "programs", Mindi, Mindi Busybox, and Mondo. Get the rpm's from Mondo Rescue to install. One portion is missing from the SuSE repos. You start it from CLI then get this rather DOS(y) looking GUI. Not exactly beautiful, but functional.
If it is an official Suse repository, have you filed a bug against the missing portion? <SNIP> -- ---Bryen--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Bryen wrote:
On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 07:10 -0600, Billie Walsh wrote:
<SNIP>
It takes three "programs", Mindi, Mindi Busybox, and Mondo. Get the rpm's from Mondo Rescue to install. One portion is missing from the SuSE repos. You start it from CLI then get this rather DOS(y) looking GUI. Not exactly beautiful, but functional.
If it is an official Suse repository, have you filed a bug against the missing portion?
<SNIP>
I am not so sure it's a "bug", or at least I wouldn't think it was. Anyway, I'm not sure which repo Yast finds Mindi and Mondo in but in my searching I didn't see Mindy Busybox. All three now show up in my Software Management, but I'm not sure if that's because I have them all installed or because it's now there. I also can't tell what repos they are in. Mindi does show a newer version installed than available elsewhere. So, I just installed the rpm's from the Mondo Rescue site. Worked like a charm. About all that's needed is to copy Mindi Busybox into the repo. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 09:58 -0600, Billie Walsh wrote:
Bryen wrote:
On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 07:10 -0600, Billie Walsh wrote:
<SNIP>
It takes three "programs", Mindi, Mindi Busybox, and Mondo. Get the rpm's from Mondo Rescue to install. One portion is missing from the SuSE repos. You start it from CLI then get this rather DOS(y) looking GUI. Not exactly beautiful, but functional.
If it is an official Suse repository, have you filed a bug against the missing portion?
<SNIP>
I am not so sure it's a "bug", or at least I wouldn't think it was.
A bug doesn't just mean something is broken. Although, if that component is considered important, I would consider the fact that it is missing as broken. It could have been filed as an enhancement or as a heads up to whomever packaged it.
Anyway, I'm not sure which repo Yast finds Mindi and Mondo in but in my searching I didn't see Mindy Busybox. All three now show up in my Software Management, but I'm not sure if that's because I have them all installed or because it's now there. I also can't tell what repos they are in. Mindi does show a newer version installed than available elsewhere.
In Software Management, if you click on package information, you usually can see at the bottom of the dialog which repo it came from.
So, I just installed the rpm's from the Mondo Rescue site. Worked like a charm.
About all that's needed is to copy Mindi Busybox into the repo. -- ---Bryen---
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 12/08/2007 Bryen wrote:
A bug doesn't just mean something is broken. Although, if that component is considered important, I would consider the fact that it is missing as broken. It could have been filed as an enhancement or as a heads up to whomever packaged it.
You have a point there.
In Software Management, if you click on package information, you usually can see at the bottom of the dialog which repo it came from.
Because I installed from a local directory, with Yast, it probably wouldn't show. Perhaps someone that doesn't have it installed could look to see which repository it's in. From the looks of one file I wonder if it might be on the distribution disk. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 December 2007 09:38, Billie Walsh wrote:
...
Perhaps someone that doesn't have it installed could look to see which repository it's in. From the looks of one file I wonder if it might be on the distribution disk.
Here's a shocker. Repository Name: MondoRescue Server: download.opensuse.org Directory: /repositories/Archiving:/Backup:/MondoRescue/openSUSE_10.3 It contains all three primary packages as well as several ancillary ones. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 12/08/2007 Randall R Schulz wrote:
Here's a shocker.
Repository Name: MondoRescue Server: download.opensuse.org Directory: /repositories/Archiving:/Backup:/MondoRescue/openSUSE_10.3
It contains all three primary packages as well as several ancillary ones.
Randall Schulz
When I was looking I didn't find the Mindi Busybox. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 16:45 -0600, Billie Walsh wrote:
On 12/08/2007 Randall R Schulz wrote:
Here's a shocker.
Repository Name: MondoRescue Server: download.opensuse.org Directory: /repositories/Archiving:/Backup:/MondoRescue/openSUSE_10.3
It contains all three primary packages as well as several ancillary ones.
Randall Schulz
When I was looking I didn't find the Mindi Busybox.
Maybe you should have offered Mindi some chocolates and flowers. :-) -- ---Bryen--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 December 2007 08:10:40 am Billie Walsh wrote:
Bob S wrote:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup.
Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually?
I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed.
Bob S
Just a suggestion.
I've been playing around with Mondo Rescue. [ http://www.mondorescue.org/ ] It's not exactly what your thinking of doing. It makes a CD/DVD set that will boot and reinstall your system EXACTLY as it was when the set was made. Then you could use a smaller backup set to replace any changes.
Thanks for the suggestion Billie. I used Mondo/Mindi way back in SuSE 8 days. Yes it made a faithful bootable copy of the system. Once you made it though, it hung around for 6 months or so because you didn't want to do that very often. Things change drastically in that 6 month period with updates and file data so there is still the problem of incremental backups. I think that I would like something that does it all at once. Hence my question to the list. I think that "Mike", one of the original proponents for Mondo/Mindi for SuSE still lurks on this list. Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 December 2007 11:40:26 pm Bob S wrote:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a commmplete and full backup.
Can I make a "clone" of my SUSE 10.3 ? I mean bootable and everything. If not, can I copy everything and then boot it from the DVD? Again, if not, and I just want a backup of everything, must I partition the new drive exactly as the original drive and rsync the partitions individually?
I am thinking hard drive failure (could take it out of the enclosure and replace the failed internal disk with it) as well as file corruption backups. Used to use Kdar for backups but it isn't supported for 10.3 Was always worried about a reinstall after a hard drive failure with all of the extra stuff I have installed.
Replying to myself here so I can reply to all of the folks who were kind enough to answer my query. Thanks Bryen, Rodney, Carlos, Joe, Otto.. Jeffrey, Billie, etc. Your replies lead to more questions, As I stated previously, I would like to do an "all in one" if possible. Bootable and incrementaly up to date. Will dd build a bootable disk? Can that clone be updated by rsync to make it current? I am not worried about whitespace and I would buy a disk just a little larger than my proposed cloning. It's sole purpose would be for a backup. The whole idea of this exercise would be to have a faithful bootable system until I could replace my failed drive and/or be able to restore from that drive if I had corruption/whatever on the primary drive. Now, suppose I did have a primary drive failure and I used the backup clone to restore to a larger disk. As Carlos pointed out I couldn't use dd to restore because the extra space would then be inaccessible. Could the new primary be partioned first so that it would be? Otto has an intersting solution which I will have to investigate. If it will do incremental backups to the disk that would be perfect. Jeffrey suggests SystemRescueCD but if that is like Mondo and is a one time thing, I don't want that. Don't know anything about rsnapshot. Will that make a bootable replacement drive? Is it just anothe variation of rsync? I know,.....I could use raid to clone and build a replacement drive,, but if I corrupt, delete, whatever it happens to both drives. Any other suggestions advice? Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 23:09 -0500, Bob S wrote:
Replying to myself here so I can reply to all of the folks who were kind enough to answer my query. Thanks Bryen, Rodney, Carlos, Joe, Otto.. Jeffrey, Billie, etc.
Your replies lead to more questions, As I stated previously, I would like to do an "all in one" if possible. Bootable and incrementaly up to date.
Will dd build a bootable disk? Can that clone be updated by rsync to make it current?
I am not worried about whitespace and I would buy a disk just a little larger than my proposed cloning. It's sole purpose would be for a backup. The whole idea of this exercise would be to have a faithful bootable system until I could replace my failed drive and/or be able to restore from that drive if I had corruption/whatever on the primary drive. Now, suppose I did have a primary drive failure and I used the backup clone to restore to a larger disk. As Carlos pointed out I couldn't use dd to restore because the extra space would then be inaccessible. Could the new primary be partioned first so that it would be?
Otto has an intersting solution which I will have to investigate. If it will do incremental backups to the disk that would be perfect.
Jeffrey suggests SystemRescueCD but if that is like Mondo and is a one time thing, I don't want that. Don't know anything about rsnapshot. Will that make a bootable replacement drive? Is it just anothe variation of rsync?
I know,.....I could use raid to clone and build a replacement drive,, but if I corrupt, delete, whatever it happens to both drives.
Any other suggestions advice?
Bob S
Though I haven't used it, another suggestion might be to use http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l to make an image of your installation by ghosting it. I've heard people say good things about it. -- ---Bryen--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Quoting Bob S <911@sanctum.com>: [snip]
Your replies lead to more questions, As I stated previously, I would like to do an "all in one" if possible. Bootable and incrementaly up to date.
Will dd build a bootable disk? Can that clone be updated by rsync to make it current?
Yes, dd can build a bootable disk. It is just a bit for bit copy of the disk partition, including the Master Boot Record (MBR). That is the point of using complete copies of partitions, to do a bare metal restore. Restoring a working, bootable system onto an empty hard drive.
I am not worried about whitespace and I would buy a disk just a little larger than my proposed cloning. It's sole purpose would be for a backup. The whole idea of this exercise would be to have a faithful bootable system until I could replace my failed drive and/or be able to restore from that drive if I had corruption/whatever on the primary drive. Now, suppose I did have a primary drive failure and I used the backup clone to restore to a larger disk. As Carlos pointed out I couldn't use dd to restore because the extra space would then be inaccessible. Could the new primary be partioned first so that it would be?
The disk needs to be partitioned before doing a restore with dd. It copies partitions, not disks. It makes partition images, not disk images.
Otto has an intersting solution which I will have to investigate. If it will do incremental backups to the disk that would be perfect.
Jeffrey suggests SystemRescueCD but if that is like Mondo and is a one time thing, I don't want that.
SystemRescueCD is just a very good, distribution independent rescue disk. Bare metal backups must be done from a rescue disk. It is impossible to do one on a running system that I personally would trust. It is a collection of tools for rescue and creating backups and ... AFAICT, Mondo is solely about creating bootable CD/DVDs that recreate the original disk. More automatic, less general than a rescue disk based approach.
Don't know anything about rsnapshot. Will that make a bootable replacement drive? Is it just anothe variation of rsync?
Rsnapshot is for incremental backups. It will not make a bootable disk. It is a script (with documentation) built on rsync. I.e., a expert in a box on how to use rsync to do and organize incremental backups. Incremental backups are frequent and need to be easy, convenient, etc. Same for restores from the incremental backups. Bare metal backups are done infrequently. They need to be dependable and self contained. Bare metal restores are hopefully done very infrequently and need to be dependable. I find that dd for bare metal backups is dependable. Rsnapshot is fast and convenient for incremental backups and restores. There are other solutions that work. Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jeffrey L. Taylor writes:
Will dd build a bootable disk?
Yes, dd can build a bootable disk. It is just a bit for bit copy of the disk partition, including the Master Boot Record (MBR). That is the point of using complete copies of partitions, to do a bare metal restore. Restoring a working, bootable system onto an empty hard drive.
Yes, if you dd the entire disk (i.e., from /dev/hda to /dev/hdb without specifying the partition(s)), it will copy everything including the boot block and all partitions within, unused space and all.
Can that (dd'ed) clone be updated by rsync to make it current?
Yes, if the filesystem is consistent. See below.
I find that dd for bare metal backups is dependable. Rsnapshot is fast and convenient for incremental backups and restores. There are other solutions that work.
The downside of dd is that you must unmount all filesystems on the disk to be backed up before doing the copy. Since the dd session will take time to complete, if the filesystem is mounted and active, the time between the start and the end of the dd run, changes would have occurred and you'd end up with an inconsistent filesystem. This is because the superblock and inode table, etc., would become out of date and no longer fully reflect the state of the data blocks that gets eventually backed up. Depending on the amount of activity on the filesystem, the backup may become corrupt enough to be unusable. Also, on mission-critical systems, unmounting live filesystems for backup purposes may not be a feasible option. -Ti -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2007-12-08 at 21:25 -0800, Ti Kan wrote:
I find that dd for bare metal backups is dependable. Rsnapshot is fast and convenient for incremental backups and restores. There are other solutions that work.
The downside of dd is that you must unmount all filesystems on the disk to be backed up before doing the copy. Since the dd session will take time to complete, if the filesystem is mounted and active, the time between the start and the end of the dd run, changes would have occurred and you'd end up with an inconsistent filesystem. This is because the superblock and inode table, etc., would become out of date and no longer fully reflect the state of the data blocks that gets eventually backed up. Depending on the amount of activity on the filesystem, the backup may become corrupt enough to be unusable. Also, on mission-critical systems, unmounting live filesystems for backup purposes may not be a feasible option.
One theoretically possible method would be, if you have a raid 1 system, to stop one side, then clone the stopped side to another disk, then reactivate the stopped side. The copy would be consistent, but of a mounted filesystems: it would have to be fscked before use, after restore. Then, somebody could do an utility to dd an active partition or disk, recording somewhere what changes were done while the process took place to take them into account on a second pass, faster, and then a third, etc, till the copy would be fully consistent. Another theoretical possibility would be the contrary: the system would freeze the source partition sourcing the dd (call it dump), recording somewhere else the changes done by other programs; ie, the changes would not be written on the intended partition, but on another "recent changes" partition. When the dump was complete, the partition would be reactivated the "recent changes" and be applied again. Scary, eh? I have seen some thing similar, though... Then, if you are using xfs, these utilities can be used, without umounting: xfs_freeze -f xfs_copy xfs_freeze -u xfsdump is missing, but mentioned. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHW9c3tTMYHG2NR9URAidsAJ4gMLkk78hpsXONxu6JJf2fu8NeVgCghhvV f1NPlbvyHa3VqyM6PXXD2ro= =yvG0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 December 2007 21:51, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
The disk needs to be partitioned before doing a restore with dd. It copies partitions, not disks. It makes partition images, not disk images.
This is true if to copy partition, but dd can copy entire disks as well. No
pre-partitioning required in that case.
I recently backed up an entire disk with three partitions (including one
encrypted) to a new disk (same model) without partitioning. Something along
the lines of
dd if=/dev/
Quoting Don Raboud
On Saturday 08 December 2007 21:51, Jeffrey L. Taylor wrote:
The disk needs to be partitioned before doing a restore with dd. It copies partitions, not disks. It makes partition images, not disk images.
This is true if to copy partition, but dd can copy entire disks as well. No pre-partitioning required in that case.
I recently backed up an entire disk with three partitions (including one encrypted) to a new disk (same model) without partitioning. Something along the lines of
dd if=/dev/
of=/dev/ bs=8M Works fine.
Okay, my bad. I think I'd prefer copying partitions. It gives more flexibility on the new disk's size. Jeffrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 December 2007 11:40:26 pm Bob S wrote:
Hello SuSE people,
I plan to buy an external USB drive for my backups. I would really like to do a complete and full backup.
Many thanks to all of you who supplied info and advice. I guess now that I have to do some investigation on all of the suggestions. Thanks again Bob S. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Billie Walsh -
Bob S -
Bryen -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Cotton -
Don Raboud -
Jeffrey L. Taylor -
Joe Sloan -
Otto Rodusek (AP-SGP) -
Randall R Schulz -
Rodney Baker -
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