Re[4]: [opensuse] So tried KDE4
People's KDE4 attempts fall over whenever they try to force it to be KDE3.
Why my attempts over Windows, Gnome, KDE3 and KDE2 do not fail in that case? Only KDE4 is fail. Of course if you use only KDE4's default icon theme Oxygen and do not try to make KDE3 or whatever of it by simply changing the default icons, you'll not spot the fact that the icon theme cannot be changed in KDE4.4.4. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2010/7/27 Илья Черных:
People's KDE4 attempts fall over whenever they try to force it to be KDE3.
Why my attempts over Windows, Gnome, KDE3 and KDE2 do not fail in that case? Only KDE4 is fail. Of course if you use only KDE4's default icon theme Oxygen and do not try to make KDE3 or whatever of it by simply changing the default icons, you'll not spot the fact that the icon theme cannot be changed in KDE4.4.4.
I just changed icons sets a dozen times... I used the "Get New Themes" button and downlaoded 7 different icons sets... applied them all... they work as expected... well except for Iceglass which seems to be missing a lot of basic icons. I don't use the default Oxygen icon set.. I change things around. As reply2 on your forum posting stated, and as I said right at the start of this thread, are you running KDE4 in a clean environment or in a mixed environ? KDE4 and KDE3 have historically not played well together. I don't know if this has been fixed since I've dropped KDE3 now. Maybe the problem is something messed up in your config or conflicting KDE things? On a clean KDE4 install/user it's working. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 08:59:22 C wrote:
As reply2 on your forum posting stated, and as I said right at the start of this thread, are you running KDE4 in a clean environment or in a mixed environ? KDE4 and KDE3 have historically not played well together. I don't know if this has been fixed since I've dropped KDE3 now. Maybe the problem is something messed up in your config or conflicting KDE things? On a clean KDE4 install/user it's working.
If KDE3 and KDE4 don't play nice together, that's a bug - their configuration is supposed to be separate. We set KDEHOME to .kde for 3 and .kde4 for 4 - anything that doesn't respect those is breaking the rules, or is storing things in 'cross-desktop' locations like $HOME/.local intended for sharing information, like bookmarks.. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:49, Will Stephenson wrote:
If KDE3 and KDE4 don't play nice together, that's a bug - their configuration is supposed to be separate. We set KDEHOME to .kde for 3 and .kde4 for 4 - anything that doesn't respect those is breaking the rules, or is storing things in 'cross-desktop' locations like $HOME/.local intended for sharing information, like bookmarks..
Yup, agreed. I've seen.. this is a while ago now.... probs with both kde3base and kde4base installed at the same time. Slowdowns etc. This has been chattered about on the ML here.. and in other places. I assume it's not an issue anymore... but the reason I brought it up, is that it seems like many of the issues people bump into with KDE4 are traceable back to config issues, KDE3 installed, or them trying to force KDE4 to do something it can't yet. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2010. július 27. 9:59 napon C
that it seems like many of the issues people bump into with KDE4 are traceable back to config issues, KDE3 installed, or them trying to force KDE4 to do something it can't yet.
If they want to force KDE4 to do something it can not do, it is probably because of it could be done in the window manager (KDE3) they used earlier. Isn't it a logical expectation that if I can do something in KDE3 then I can do it in KDE4? Isn't it a logical expectation that KDE4 should be an improved version of KDE3, and that it should work similarly to KDE3? The name - KDE - implies that. That's what normal logic dictates. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Istvan Gabor said the following on 07/27/2010 08:30 AM:
2010. július 27. 9:59 napon C
írta: [snip]
that it seems like many of the issues people bump into with KDE4 are traceable back to config issues, KDE3 installed, or them trying to force KDE4 to do something it can't yet.
If they want to force KDE4 to do something it can not do, it is probably because of it could be done in the window manager (KDE3) they used earlier. Isn't it a logical expectation that if I can do something in KDE3 then I can do it in KDE4? Isn't it a logical expectation that KDE4 should be an improved version of KDE3, and that it should work similarly to KDE3? The name - KDE - implies that. That's what normal logic dictates.
I disagree. Any other product, be it Windows, an automobile, or even a kitchen appliance that has the next model in sequence (be it by year model designation or some other sequencing) gets to a point where minor weeks and fixes and cosmetic changes can only do so much and a whole new platform is required. You may or may not like the results, but lets face it, we don't drive horseless carriages any more, we don't use Teletypes and continuous rolls of paper any more. We use phones rather than send telegrams - and some of us don't even have land-line phones. There are many things we call by an archaic name even though their nature, mechanisms and interface have changed radically. I call this thing a 'computer' even though it sits on my desk rather than has a huge room devoted to it and it runs on microchips rather than valves, and I have a keyboard and windowing screen rather than a Teletype and bank of switches. But I still call it a computer. You call the "other" one "Gnome", but it doesn't sit on your front lawn holding a fishing rod. If this was called "Tolomberine" instead of KDE4, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this silly thread. -- Getting into a patent battle with IBM is right up there with starting a land war in Asia -- http://slashdot.org/~Don+Negro -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:00:50 Istvan Gabor wrote:
2010. július 27. 9:59 napon C
írta: [snip]
that it seems like many of the issues people bump into with KDE4 are traceable back to config issues, KDE3 installed, or them trying to force KDE4 to do something it can't yet.
If they want to force KDE4 to do something it can not do, it is probably because of it could be done in the window manager (KDE3) they used earlier. Isn't it a logical expectation that if I can do something in KDE3 then I can do it in KDE4? Isn't it a logical expectation that KDE4 should be an improved version of KDE3, and that it should work similarly to KDE3? The name - KDE - implies that. That's what normal logic dictates.
Istvan
You mean like Windows Vista vs XP? See, even the big boys get it wrong sometimes. I don't know how many times I found myself tearing my hair out and cursing Vista under my breath (or sometimes not so quietly) when I tried to do basic stuff that was easy in XP but required jumping through hoops in Vista. Even simple stuff like configuring networking - configuring custom network setting seems to be much harder even in Win 7 that it was in XP because so much stuff moved around and was hidden from "mere users". The switch from KDE3 to KDE4, whilst there was some adjusting, I found to be much more natural and easier than from XP to Vista or 7. There are still changes occuring (even from 4.4 to 4.4.93 there are differences with some stuff moving around and minor changes in how some things work) but overall I don't miss KDE3 at all now (I still use XP though if I *have* to use Windows). And re Mac OSX, I found it much less of a jump from KDE4 to Mac OSX and back again than from KDE3 or any version of Windows. Just my $0.02 worth. -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/07/27 08:50 (GMT-0400) Anton Aylward composed:
If this was called "Tolomberine" instead of KDE4, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this silly thread.
For sure. Just as the name Photoshop 7 implied a newer and improved replacement for Photoshop 6, the name Warp 4.0 implied a newer and improved replacement for Warp 3.0, the name Mac OS X implied a newer and improved replacement for OS 9, and the name Fedora 13 implies a newer and improved replacement for Fedora 12, the name KDE4 implies that it is a newer and improved replacement for KDE3. It is clear from this thread and others that many find KDE4, versions prior to 4.3 or 4.4 at least, neither improved nor suitable as a replacement for KDE3. It is equally clear that KDE3 power users would have been better served had KDE4 been given some distinctively different name, or at least a KDE3 look and feel option, similar to that given those who upgraded from Windows 2000 to Windows XP. Indeed, does anyone know if a KDE3 look & feel option bug/feature request exists in the KDE Bugzilla? KDE4 is a great example that newer is neither equivalent to either better nor improved. Kudos to Novell and active openSUSE supporters/developers that all openSUSE users continue to have the option to use KDE3. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 20:28, Felix Miata
On 2010/07/27 08:50 (GMT-0400) Anton Aylward composed:
If this was called "Tolomberine" instead of KDE4, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this silly thread.
For sure. Just as the name Photoshop 7 implied a newer and improved replacement for Photoshop 6, the name Warp 4.0 implied a newer and improved replacement for Warp 3.0, the name Mac OS X implied a newer and improved replacement for OS 9, and the name Fedora 13 implies a newer and improved replacement for Fedora 12, the name KDE4 implies that it is a newer and improved replacement for KDE3.
It is clear from this thread and others that many find KDE4, versions prior to 4.3 or 4.4 at least, neither improved nor suitable as a replacement for KDE3. It is equally clear that KDE3 power users would have been better served had KDE4 been given some distinctively different name, or at least a KDE3 look and feel option, similar to that given those who upgraded from Windows 2000 to Windows XP.
KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were clearly labeled as not intended for the end user. KDE 4.2 was labeled for "early adoptors". Complain to Suse that they included it in the distro. KDE 4.3 is ~99% feature complete with KDE 3.5.10, everything currently missing needs to be filed individually as a feature request (wish) in bugs.kde.org.
Indeed, does anyone know if a KDE3 look & feel option bug/feature request exists in the KDE Bugzilla?
There would be no point. Instead, fle feature requests for the specific features that you feel are missing.
KDE4 is a great example that newer is neither equivalent to either better nor improved.
Agreed.
Kudos to Novell and active openSUSE supporters/developers that all openSUSE users continue to have the option to use KDE3.
++1 -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/07/27 21:31 (GMT+0300) Dotan Cohen composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
It is equally clear that KDE3 power users would have been better served had KDE4 been given ... a KDE3 look and feel option, similar to that given those who upgraded from Windows 2000 to Windows XP.
Indeed, does anyone know if a KDE3 look & feel option bug/feature request exists in the KDE Bugzilla?
There would be no point.
Sounds like you're not familiar with the W2K look & feel option in WXP. I've heard there's something similar for XP users upgrading to Vista or W7. There certainly would be a point. If "fixed", on selection, among other things it would: 1-have no Cashew 2-have no "folder" around the icons in the upper left of desktop, just some icons 3-have only one "activity" per desktop 4-use the older KDE menu style 5-alias the Panel Kicker 6-alias systemsettings KControl 7-provide Panel/Kicker settings also in KControl 8-offer easy selection of wallpapers specific to each desktop in KControl 9-Default to tree view in KControl 10-be incapable of an errant click on the Panel rearranging the Panel's contents or making the Panel disappear altogether In short, it would be a simple way to make KDE4 look and behave as much as possible like what upgraders from KDE3 are used to, minimizing "upgrade" disruption of getting actual work done. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 23:06, Felix Miata
10-be incapable of an errant click on the Panel rearranging the Panel's contents or making the Panel disappear altogether
I'd like to hear more about this, several people have mentioned it (including my mother in law). Can you help me reproduce it? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2010-07-27 20:31, Dotan Cohen wrote:
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 20:28, Felix Miata
wrote:
Indeed, does anyone know if a KDE3 look & feel option bug/feature request exists in the KDE Bugzilla?
There would be no point. Instead, fle feature requests for the specific features that you feel are missing.
I do see a big point indeed in having the option to make KDE4 look and feel like KDE3. People could use the new version without having to "fight" it that much.
Kudos to Novell and active openSUSE supporters/developers that all openSUSE users continue to have the option to use KDE3.
++1
+1 - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxPXhMACgkQU92UU+smfQXDSACfeQFrwaetfDBKew581dpDPy7m r58AnRQOiJ+Y6WOUz9Yi7al9rtEucSvz =vWV2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Dotan Cohen
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 23:06, Felix Miata
wrote: 10-be incapable of an errant click on the Panel rearranging the Panel's contents or making the Panel disappear altogether
I'd like to hear more about this, several people have mentioned it (including my mother in law). Can you help me reproduce it?
I can only think that this would happen if the widgets were unlocked and/or the type of view, desktop/folder/... , were changed. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 22:06:36 Felix Miata wrote:
10-be incapable of an errant click on the Panel rearranging the Panel's contents or making the Panel disappear altogether
In KDE3, an errant click on the panel could move things around. This is, and was always, impossible in KDE4 since you have to put it into edit mode before you can change the location of widgets on the panel. In KDE3 this was impossible, everything was always draggable. This has been a source of complaints from some KDE3 inerrantists, so I wonder if perhaps you got that point backwards. You want random clicks on the panel to be able to change things around, so people - especially inexperienced ones - have an easier time messing up their settings As for the "disappear altogether" bit, that sounds like a crash, which would not be a "make it work like KDE3", it would be a plain bug fix which no one would complain about. Kicker crashed fairly often as well Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 01:44, Patrick Shanahan
* Dotan Cohen
[07-27-10 17:59]: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 23:06, Felix Miata
wrote: 10-be incapable of an errant click on the Panel rearranging the Panel's contents or making the Panel disappear altogether
I'd like to hear more about this, several people have mentioned it (including my mother in law). Can you help me reproduce it?
I can only think that this would happen if the widgets were unlocked and/or the type of view, desktop/folder/... , were changed.
No, I've even had it happen to me with the panel locked. My mother in law's system cannot unlock the panels easily and it happens to her as well. I just have trouble reproducing the issue. It is not a crash. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2010. július 27. 18:51 napon Rodney Baker
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:00:50 Istvan Gabor wrote:
If they want to force KDE4 to do something it can not do, it is probably because of it could be done in the window manager (KDE3) they used earlier. Isn't it a logical expectation that if I can do something in KDE3 then I can do it in KDE4? Isn't it a logical expectation that KDE4 should be an improved version of KDE3, and that it should work similarly to KDE3? The name - KDE - implies that. That's what normal logic dictates.
Istvan
You mean like Windows Vista vs XP? See, even the big boys get it wrong sometimes. I don't know how many times I found myself tearing my hair out and cursing Vista under my breath (or sometimes not so quietly) when I tried to do basic stuff that was easy in XP but required jumping through hoops in Vista.
This is a bad example. It would be good if Vista was called eg. Windows XP2. Vista name does not do anything with XP name. Both product are made by MS and both are OS-s. That's all.
And re Mac OSX, I found it much less of a jump from KDE4 to Mac OSX and back again than from KDE3 or any version of Windows.
OSX is a good example. The jump from OS9 to OSX included a complete change of the underlying system. Still from the point of users it acted very similary. One did not have to relearn hot to use OSX if was familiar with previous versions. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
This is a bad example. It would be good if Vista was called eg. Windows XP2. Vista name does not do anything with XP name. Both product are made by MS and both are OS-s. That's all.
It should be mentioned that Vista is not that different from Windows XP: it is evolutionary development of Windows XP, it has only modified things, not rewritten from scratch. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
You mean like Windows Vista vs XP?
No, Vista vs. Xp is a completely different thing. Vista is a modified version of XP. Not a separate operating system. You know even Windows 95 and Windows 7 have more in common regarding user interface than KDE4 has regarding KDE3/2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/07/28 00:56 (GMT+0300) Dotan Cohen composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
10-be incapable of an errant click on the Panel rearranging the Panel's contents or making the Panel disappear altogether
Can you help me reproduce it?
Little chance of that. I've seen it multiple times, but only on Rawhide and/or Cooker and/or Factory and/or latest*buntudevversion. Still too many KDE3 features missing from KDE4 for me to abandon KDE3 for routine tasking. Speculation of possible characteristics/conditions needed to recreate: above average actual DPI (smaller than average desktop objects) below average vision/eyesight (larger objects and spacing between needed) below average mouse/trackball dexterity (accidental/unintended drag) unfamiliarity with KDE4's altered/replaced paradigms (cashew=seed/food; plasma=status; panel=hopelessly generic term for help searching) -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
And even worse is nobody wants to deal with the missing features bug. You can report it to SUSE but they will point fingers upstream. Then upstream will say no its a distro thing and SUSE will say sorry we already said we aren't fixing it. Who thought it was a good idea to throw everything away, start over, and then systematically ignore users requests to get the removed features added back? -- Med Vennlig Hilsen, A. Helge Joakimsen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Andrew Joakimsen wrote:
And even worse is nobody wants to deal with the missing features bug. You can report it to SUSE but they will point fingers upstream. Then upstream will say no its a distro thing and SUSE will say sorry we already said we aren't fixing it.
Who thought it was a good idea to throw everything away, start over, and then systematically ignore users requests to get the removed features added back?
Why does that sound familiar - oh - I know - the competition (Microsucks) did that - Hmmm Maybe - we - had to "keep up with the Jone's" ;-) Still on 11.1 with KDE 3.5.x - and - BEING EXTREMELY STABLE ;-) -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 18:36, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:
And even worse is nobody wants to deal with the missing features bug. You can report it to SUSE but they will point fingers upstream. Then upstream will say no its a distro thing and SUSE will say sorry we already said we aren't fixing it.
Who thought it was a good idea to throw everything away, start over, and then systematically ignore users requests to get the removed features added back?
I said I wasn't going to reply anymore here on this thread.. but... what? Ignore requests? What are you on about? Loads of feature requests have been implemented and will be available in 4.5 if they are not already there in 4.4.4. Take the much yelled for metadata display for photos https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190588 That was just one I can think of off the top of my head (because it's one I'm interested in). There are def a lot more... so.. your statement is simply not true... basically.. FUD and nothing more. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 14:26, C
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 18:36, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:
And even worse is nobody wants to deal with the missing features bug. You can report it to SUSE but they will point fingers upstream. Then upstream will say no its a distro thing and SUSE will say sorry we already said we aren't fixing it.
Who thought it was a good idea to throw everything away, start over, and then systematically ignore users requests to get the removed features added back?
I said I wasn't going to reply anymore here on this thread.. but... what? Ignore requests? What are you on about? Loads of feature requests have been implemented and will be available in 4.5 if they are not already there in 4.4.4. Take the much yelled for metadata display for photos https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190588 That was just one I can think of off the top of my head (because it's one I'm interested in). There are def a lot more... so.. your statement is simply not true... basically.. FUD and nothing more.
C.
There is the search box in KDE 3.5 in classic K-Menu is missing. It was a SUSE patch in 3.5 but SUSE refuse to implement it in KDE 4. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Andrew Joakimsen
There is the search box in KDE 3.5 in classic K-Menu is missing. It was a SUSE patch in 3.5 but SUSE refuse to implement it in KDE 4.
That's odd, I'm running KDE4.4.95 and I have it: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/kmenu.search.box.jpg -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 21:38, Patrick Shanahan
* Andrew Joakimsen
[07-29-10 21:21]: There is the search box in KDE 3.5 in classic K-Menu is missing. It was a SUSE patch in 3.5 but SUSE refuse to implement it in KDE 4.
That's odd, I'm running KDE4.4.95 and I have it: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/kmenu.search.box.jpg
Now right click K-menu and select view classic k-menu and it goes away. It was there in KDE 3.5. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 16:27, Felix Miata
Can you help me reproduce it?
Little chance of that. I've seen it multiple times, but only on Rawhide and/or Cooker and/or Factory and/or latest*buntudevversion. Still too many KDE3 features missing from KDE4 for me to abandon KDE3 for routine tasking.
Yes, it is had to reproduce! If you let me know what is missing in KDE 4.5 for you, I will file the necessary feature requests.
Speculation of possible characteristics/conditions needed to recreate:
above average actual DPI (smaller than average desktop objects) below average vision/eyesight (larger objects and spacing between needed) below average mouse/trackball dexterity (accidental/unintended drag) unfamiliarity with KDE4's altered/replaced paradigms (cashew=seed/food; plasma=status; panel=hopelessly generic term for help searching)
Thanks, that is actually rather handy. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2010. július 29. 20:26 napon C
what? Ignore requests? What are you on about? Loads of feature requests have been implemented and will be available in 4.5 if they are not already there in 4.4.4. Take the much yelled for metadata display for photos https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190588 That was just one I can think of off the top of my head (because it's one I'm interested in). There are def a lot more... so.. your statement is simply not true... basically.. FUD and nothing more.
C.
Is it also FUD when I asked for features back, I got the answer from Sven Burmeister that I have to pay for it or do it myself or no to use KDE4? Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Istvan Gabor
Is it also FUD when I asked for features back, I got the answer from Sven Burmeister that I have to pay for it or do it myself or no to use KDE4?
No, a little harsh, but facts-of-life. These apply if you request something and someone else does not do it for you (and themselves and others). You must remember that 99% of the work is performed by non-paid volunteers. Do you slap someone when pleading for them to work for you for free? And the features you want must be concisely described and presented in the proper forum, bugzilla. Bitching on the list only accomplishes ill feeling and NOISE. Attitude is paramount. FACT: KDE3 is dying and loosing function despite dwingling efforts to extend it's life! The longer you resist, the more wasted effort you will expend. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2010-07-30 at 09:17 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Istvan Gabor
[07-30-10 06:02]: Is it also FUD when I asked for features back, I got the answer from Sven Burmeister that I have to pay for it or do it myself or no to use KDE4? No, a little harsh, but facts-of-life. These apply if you request something and someone else does not do it for you (and themselves and others). You must remember that 99% of the work is performed by non-paid volunteers.
This is false, surveys show that ~70% of Open Source contributes are paid. But.... paid by someone other than the person who is complaining.
Do you slap someone when pleading for them to work for you for free? And the features you want must be concisely described and presented in the proper forum, bugzilla. Bitching on the list only accomplishes ill feeling and NOISE. Attitude is paramount.
Yes. And please go complain about these issues on opensuse-kde.
FACT: KDE3 is dying and loosing function despite dwingling efforts to extend it's life! The longer you resist, the more wasted effort you will expend.
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On 7/30/2010 10:02 AM, Илья Черных wrote:
The longer you resist, the more wasted effort you will expend. Resist what? Accepting that KDE3 is over.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Accepting that KDE3 is over.
Over what? And by what act it can be accepted? Removing KDE3 from my computer? Installing KDE4? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Илья Черных
Accepting that KDE3 is over.
Over what? And by what act it can be accepted? Removing KDE3 from my computer? Installing KDE4?
You are remarkably able to argue minute, obscure and irrelevant points. You should be able to determine the answers to your points w/o asking. The brown fog is not obscuring your view and/or ability to breathe? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2010-07-30 at 19:42 +0400, Илья Черных wrote:
Accepting that KDE3 is over. Over what?
Beyond the time span within which is was actively being developed. Projects die, it is a normal thing; just check out Sourceforge if you need proof.
And by what act it can be accepted?
Learning to use something else that is under active development and supported. I don't use the CDE desktop-environment anymore; nor do I use fvwm. I don't use "xv", I don't use CORBA, I don't use Balsa for e-mail anymore. I don't use sendmail as an MTA anymore. I don't use NIS for authentication anymore. I don't use lpd, or lprng, for print services anymore. I don't use "xterm" as a terminal emulator anymore. .....
Removing KDE3 from my computer? Installing KDE4?
Possibly, yes. Or, if you don't want to move on, please continue to
complain over on opensuse-kde@opensuse.org
--
Adam Tauno Williams
Beyond the time span within which is was actively being developed.
It is not true actually, but pretend it is so. So what?
Learning to use something else that is under active development and supported.
1. Why should I need using only things under development? 2. Why did you decide I cannot use anything else so I have to learn?
Possibly, yes.
Why? Why should I remove something which is more suitable and sinstall something unusable?
Or, if you don't want to move on, please continue to complain over on opensuse-kde@opensuse.org
Stop. I did not complain here. I was asked by Dotan what I do not like in KDE4 and answered him. Anyway complaining about KDE4, I agree, is completely silly: it is more reasonable to expect KDE3 to be maintained longer than they fix their KDE4 so it not crashes and implement basic functions. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 July 2010 13:44:42 Илья Черных wrote:
Beyond the time span within which is was actively being developed.
It is not true actually, but pretend it is so. So what?
Learning to use something else that is under active development and
supported.
1. Why should I need using only things under development?
Is that a little kid question? Security patches and bug fixes are applied only to something that is developed, not to abandoned products.
2. Why did you decide I cannot use anything else so I have to learn?
No one decided that you can't, it is your interpretation of his words. Surely you can, if you can live without security patches and bug fixes.
Possibly, yes.
Why? Why should I remove something which is more suitable and sinstall something unusable?
It is unusable for you because your system doesn't support it. If you can't afford system that supports new software then you have to live with old. In your case new Nvidia driver is probably a cure, so there is no financial involvement. My (very) old computer works fine and performance is acceptable under KDE4, and the new one has absolutely no problems. It is all working out of the box that I have no idea what graphic chip is built in, and many more details.
... Anyway complaining about KDE4, I agree, is completely silly: it is more reasonable to expect KDE3 to be maintained
It is still maintained, but it is not developed.
longer than they fix their KDE4 so it not crashes and implement basic functions.
Definition of "basic functions" is individual. What you listed here, spatial browsing, was declared by Microsoft as a flop, and for you that is under basic functions. In my book it is a major hurdle, and it was reverted to browsing in a single window to save click to close windows. My need for multiple windows that present different directories is so small that I can always use "open in a new window" option. I can't imagine use case that will justify new window on each change of directory. Those that browse a little can use "open in a new window". Those that browse file system a lot really will hate multiple windows and lost overview where they are. Calling so obscure feature a basic is nonsense, but as mentioned it is individual matter like in some people like whip, some whip cream. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Security patches and bug fixes are applied only to something that is developed, not to abandoned products.
Yes, but does it mean developing projects are more secure and bug-free?
Surely you can, if you can live without security patches and bug fixes.
You should re-read the question and the answer.
It is unusable for you because your system doesn't support it.
Strange. Do you think the only things unusable in KDE4 are related to video? Did you read the first message in this topic?
It is still maintained, but it is not developed.
And what?
Calling so obscure feature a basic is nonsense
Obscure feature that present in every major operating system and desktop environment since 1985? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 July 2010 19:37:53 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
I don't use CORBA
Is CORBA gone from GNOME already? Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. said the following on 07/30/2010 03:57 PM:
My need for multiple windows that present different directories is so small that I can always use "open in a new window" option.
I can't imagine use case that will justify new window on each change of directory.
I can. If I had a screen say 50 meters by 20 meters (but with a 0.25mm resolution); that is so large that I could create new windows all day long and not run out of space and need to close them ... How much memory would that be? Right. I'm sure I could do something better with all that memory than clutter it up with 'spacial navigation'. I can do something better than clutter up my 37x21cm screen with 'spacial navigation'.
Calling so obscure feature a basic is nonsense, but as mentioned it is individual matter like in some people like whip, some whip cream.
Double Devon on strawberries. YUM. -- HTTP is like being married: you have to be able to handle whatever you're given, while being very careful what you send back. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 30 July 2010 21:57:34 Rajko M. wrote:
My need for multiple windows that present different directories is so small that I can always use "open in a new window" option.
Or middle-click the folder instead of left-clicking it. That will also open it in a new folder Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stop. I did not complain here. I was asked by Dotan what I do not like in KDE4 and answered him. Anyway complaining about KDE4, I agree, is completely silly: it is more reasonable to expect KDE3 to be maintained longer than they fix their KDE4 so it not crashes and implement basic functions. That's all you've done. If you haven't already, you're bordering on
On 7/30/2010 2:44 PM, Илья Черных wrote: trolling. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 30. Juli 2010, 12:00:38 schrieb Istvan Gabor:
2010. július 29. 20:26 napon C
írta: what? Ignore requests? What are you on about? Loads of feature
requests have been implemented and will be available in 4.5 if they are not already there in 4.4.4. Take the much yelled for metadata display for photos https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190588 That was just one I can think of off the top of my head (because it's one I'm interested in). There are def a lot more... so.. your statement is simply not true... basically.. FUD and nothing more.
Is it also FUD when I asked for features back, I got the answer from Sven Burmeister that I have to pay for it or do it myself or no to use KDE4?
No, I told you that if you do not want to invest in a feature you cannot demand anybody else to do it or complain that nobody else does so. And btw you have not posted yet the sources of your claim that KDE devs agreed on KDE 4 being beta befor 4.5. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Илья, We can play cat and mouse as long as we want, but not here. This is support ML, we have users that want to use openSUSE and need some help, and this tirade of messages is not helping them. There is opensuse-offtopic ML that is created for discussions like this. Subscribing is a breeze. If you like more forums, then there is chat and soapbox section where we can discuss everything all over again. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
No, I told you that if you do not want to invest in a feature you cannot demand anybody else to do it or complain that nobody else does so.
Incorrect. One can complain however he wants. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Илья Черных wrote:
The longer you resist, the more wasted effort you will expend.
Resist what?
More like resistance is futile, we will all be assimilated in the end... :-) But please, there is a specific list where opinions on this can be expressed (given elsewhere in this thread) and could people move this kind of discussion there (my delete key is wearing out :-) ). - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxT53sACgkQasN0sSnLmgJqxwCgmfB41EDOpY7JCuuFrXlZeyNC 0ecAoNOUHb3TnocAneaplvMChq6qTDH4 =KXgu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Илья Черных wrote:
More like resistance is futile, we will all be assimilated in the end...
Why do you think so?
OK, who is a) running Eliza to send eMail responses... :-) or b) definitely not a trekkie and c) failing the Church-Turing test :-) nuff said... if you do not understand c) look it up.. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxT8e0ACgkQasN0sSnLmgLIyACbBRjyqD9N1vQJhqoxSA31FUcG YbQAoKUnexisxz9wKUieAFiDgdiDx3hN =MSKW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 31 July 2010, Michael S. Dunsaavage wrote:
On 7/30/2010 2:44 PM, Илья Черных wrote:
Stop. I did not complain here. I was asked by Dotan what I do not like in KDE4 and answered him. Anyway complaining about KDE4, I agree, is completely silly: it is more reasonable to expect KDE3 to be maintained longer than they fix their KDE4 so it not crashes and implement basic functions.
That's all you've done. If you haven't already, you're bordering on trolling.
Naa, he is trolling. Been that way for a while. No matter what folks tell him he keeps right on whining. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 11.0 Kernel 2.6.25 KDE 3.5 Kmail 1.9 3:16pm up 1 day 21:51, 4 users, load average: 0.19, 0.28, 0.27 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Naa, he is trolling. Been that way for a while. No matter what folks tell him he keeps right on whining.
Whining about what? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 8/1/2010 9:39 AM, Илья Черных wrote:
That's all you've done. Okay I will not install KDE4 any more so not to be accused in complaining.
Well that would have been the logical thing to do. If you didn't like, why keep using it? You did whine because it wasn't KDE3. KDE4 was not meant to be KDE3. It was a complete built-from-scratch DE. It's been solid for a large majority of the users in the last few current releases. People have tried to help you, and I've followed the thread and yet to see if you tried any of the advice that anyone has given you. Most of your messages have been how it's not KDE3, and it's been explained over and over, and in other threads too, that KDE4 is not KDE3. KDE3 has been abandoned and will not be actively developed by KDE. It's gone. If you don't like KDE4, then switch to Gnome, or XFCE, or whatever. But don't keep using something you don't like just to cry about it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2010. július 31. 3:05 napon Sven Burmeister
And btw you have not posted yet the sources of your claim that KDE devs agreed on KDE 4 being beta befor 4.5.
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=126021130600738&w=2 I don't know if the poster is kde developer but as I recall his remarks were not denied by any of the kde developers who posted to that thread. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 00:22 +0200, Istvan Gabor wrote:
2010. július 31. 3:05 napon Sven Burmeister
írta: And btw you have not posted yet the sources of your claim that KDE devs agreed on KDE 4 being beta befor 4.5. http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=126021130600738&w=2 I don't know if the poster is kde developer
FULL STOP! "I don't know if the poster is kde developer" So why even mention it? Stop trolling.
but as I recall his remarks were not denied by any of the kde developers who posted to that thread.
FULL STOP!
Claims need to be refuted? That is both dumb and not common practice.
If I claim the sky is green with yellow polka-dots... if one one rises
up to say: "Nope, it is varying shade of blue" then my claim has merit?
Seriously? That is *not* how discourse works, and every adult knows
that.
I assume you are referring to the passage:
<quote>
Unfortunately, they claimed 4.2 was ready for normal use, but I'd say
nowhere near close, tho much improved, to the late alpha or early beta
release stage. It should be mentioned that with the /claim/ of ready
for normal use, kde pretty much dropped support for the previous version
here as well, with bugs being closed as WONTFIX for kde3. 4.3 is a
later beta. Most of the basic functionality is finally there, but
there's still a lot everybody, users and developers alike, says is still
broken.
</quote>
Note the use of the pronoun "they"; this clearly refers to "KDE
developers" as a set that does not include the poster.
And, BTW, "dropped support for the previous version here as well, with
bugs being closed as WONTFIX" is *exactly* what a new major release
means! I'm on to version Y of my project... bugs filed for X if my
product will always get marked WONTFIX... upgrade to version X.
--
Adam Tauno Williams
Am Montag, 2. August 2010, 00:29:02 schrieb Adam Tauno Williams:
On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 00:22 +0200, Istvan Gabor wrote:
2010. július 31. 3:05 napon Sven Burmeister
írta: And btw you have not posted yet the sources of your claim that KDE devs agreed on KDE 4 being beta befor 4.5.
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde&m=126021130600738&w=2 I don't know if the poster is kde developer
FULL STOP!
"I don't know if the poster is kde developer"
So why even mention it? Stop trolling.
but as I recall his remarks were not denied by any of the kde developers who posted to that thread.
FULL STOP!
Claims need to be refuted? That is both dumb and not common practice.
If I claim the sky is green with yellow polka-dots... if one one rises up to say: "Nope, it is varying shade of blue" then my claim has merit? Seriously? That is *not* how discourse works, and every adult knows that.
I assume you are referring to the passage: <quote> Unfortunately, they claimed 4.2 was ready for normal use, but I'd say nowhere near close, tho much improved, to the late alpha or early beta release stage. It should be mentioned that with the /claim/ of ready for normal use, kde pretty much dropped support for the previous version here as well, with bugs being closed as WONTFIX for kde3. 4.3 is a later beta. Most of the basic functionality is finally there, but there's still a lot everybody, users and developers alike, says is still broken. </quote>
Note the use of the pronoun "they"; this clearly refers to "KDE developers" as a set that does not include the poster.
And, BTW, "dropped support for the previous version here as well, with bugs being closed as WONTFIX" is *exactly* what a new major release means! I'm on to version Y of my project... bugs filed for X if my product will always get marked WONTFIX... upgrade to version X.
Thanks for writing this down, I fully agree and do not have to add anything regarding those claims made by Istvan Gabor. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2010. július 27. 14:50 napon Anton Aylward
If this was called "Tolomberine" instead of KDE4, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this silly thread.
Absolutely agreed. Just imagine that KDE4 would have been named "Tolomberine" and it would have been added to the repos just as another new desktop environment like GNOME, XFCE, LXDE etc. And KDE3 would have been kept at the same time. What do you think how many of current KDE4 users would have changed to Tolomberine from their previous DE (very likely KDE3)? And how many new linux users would have selected Tolomberine from the many DEs? I don't think that too many. KDE4 could have been pushed down the throat of the users based on: 1. The credibility of earlier KDEs (mainly KDE3). 2. Stopping maintainance of KDE3, removong it from (official) repos. 3. Repeating the nonsense that KDE4 is the future and KDE3 is the past. And I do not have any statistics, nor proofs. This is only what I think. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Istvan Gabor
Absolutely agreed. Just imagine that KDE4 would have been named "Tolomberine" and it would have been added to the repos just as another new desktop environment like GNOME, XFCE, LXDE etc. And KDE3 would have been kept at the same time. What do you think how many of current KDE4 users would have changed to Tolomberine from their previous DE (very likely KDE3)? And how many new linux users would have selected Tolomberine from the many DEs? I don't think that too many.
KDE4 could have been pushed down the throat of the users based on: 1. The credibility of earlier KDEs (mainly KDE3). 2. Stopping maintainance of KDE3, removong it from (official) repos. 3. Repeating the nonsense that KDE4 is the future and KDE3 is the past.
And I do not have any statistics, nor proofs. This is only what I think.
Ok, we've got it. You do not like KDE4. We accept that. Maintenance of KDE3 is stopped, but this is not pushing KDE4 down your throat or anyone else's. FACT: You do *not* have to use it. You are free to choose, but the people who maintained (past tense) KDE3 have stopped and this limits your choices. KDE2 and KDE1 are also not available. There are no new Edsels, Packards, Kaisers or Studebakers, nor Model-As or Model-Ts. There is no more argument, only choice or tears. And it's still all FREE. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
If you didn't like, why keep using it?
It was not installed before this discussion started here.
KDE4 was not meant to be KDE3. It was a complete built-from-scratch DE.
In that case it's not KDE.
It's been solid for a large majority of the users in the last few current releases.
I doubt it is solid currently.
If you don't like KDE4, then switch to Gnome, or XFCE, or whatever.
I already use Gnome and KDE3, what's the point? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 August 2010, Илья Черных wrote:
If you didn't like, why keep using it?
It was not installed before this discussion started here.
KDE4 was not meant to be KDE3. It was a complete built-from-scratch DE.
In that case it's not KDE.
It's been solid for a large majority of the users in the last few current releases.
I doubt it is solid currently.
If you don't like KDE4, then switch to Gnome, or XFCE, or whatever.
I already use Gnome and KDE3, what's the point?
My question exactly. What's your point? You've voiced your opinion. Yet you keep on. Nothing more than trolling as far as I can see. Another candidate for the bitbucket. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 11.0 Kernel 2.6.25 KDE 3.5 Kmail 1.9 1:22pm up 22:41, 2 users, load average: 0.03, 0.15, 0.09 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Maintenance of KDE3 is stopped
Not true. https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3 KDE3 is in excellent state now for 11.3.
You are free to choose, but the people who maintained (past tense) KDE3 have stopped
Also untrue. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 13:23 +0200, Mike wrote:
On Tuesday 03 August 2010, Илья Черных wrote:
If you didn't like, why keep using it? It was not installed before this discussion started here. KDE4 was not meant to be KDE3. It was a complete built-from-scratch DE. In that case it's not KDE. It's been solid for a large majority of the users in the last few current releases. I doubt it is solid currently. If you don't like KDE4, then switch to Gnome, or XFCE, or whatever. I already use Gnome and KDE3, what's the point? My question exactly. What's your point?
+1 I see no point to these statements.
--
Adam Tauno Williams
On Tuesday 03 of August 2010, Илья Черных wrote:
Maintenance of KDE3 is stopped
Not true. https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=KDE%3AKDE3
KDE3 is in excellent state now for 11.3.
You have a mistaken idea what "maintainance" means. You can use the repository if you want, but you're basically on your own.
You are free to choose, but the people who maintained (past tense) KDE3 have stopped
Also untrue.
http://en.opensuse.org/KDE3 . I think it is written rather clearly there. Now, can this whole useless discussion please stop? -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
You have a mistaken idea what "maintainance" means. You can use the repository if you want, but you're basically on your own.
Thank you for clarification. Of course there is no commercial support. But you and also some other people have just fixed it so it builds well for 11.3. In this meaning the maintenance is still continuing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 of August 2010, Илья Черных wrote:
You have a mistaken idea what "maintainance" means. You can use the repository if you want, but you're basically on your own.
Thank you for clarification. Of course there is no commercial support. But you and also some other people have just fixed it so it builds well for 11.3. In this meaning the maintenance is still continuing.
No. There is no support, as in 'no support'. If you have any problem with the repository, critical fix, security problem, whatever, it is your problem, since nobody else usually cares. The maintenance is not continuing in pretty much all sane meanings. -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 3. August 2010, 15:28:08 schrieb Lubos Lunak:
On Tuesday 03 of August 2010, Илья Черных wrote:
You have a mistaken idea what "maintainance" means. You can use the repository if you want, but you're basically on your own.
Thank you for clarification. Of course there is no commercial support. But you and also some other people have just fixed it so it builds well for 11.3. In this meaning the maintenance is still continuing.
No. There is no support, as in 'no support'. If you have any problem with the repository, critical fix, security problem, whatever, it is your problem, since nobody else usually cares. The maintenance is not continuing in pretty much all sane meanings.
You should stop fixing the repo then it is clear to everyone what "unmaintained" means. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
If you have any problem with the repository, critical fix, security problem, whatever, it is your problem, since nobody else usually cares.
I think such problems should be reported upstrem, and yes, they do not support KDE3 much (but I would not say they care much about KDE4 bugreports either). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 of August 2010, Илья Черных wrote:
If you have any problem with the repository, critical fix, security problem, whatever, it is your problem,
since nobody else usually cares.
I think such problems should be reported upstrem, and yes, they do not support KDE3 much (but I would not say they care much about KDE4 bugreports either).
I'm getting tired of this. If you've decided that you know better, just give me your build service account name, I'll give you a maintainer for KDE:KDE3 and you'll get a chance to find out yourself what 'maintenance' means, the hard way. Otherwise, this discussion is over. -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi Ilya, I was following your lengthy thread, and I could not understand, what is your issue about? You have a free choice of using either KDE3 or KDE4 or any other current and defunct desktop environment as you pleased, without generating all this fuss, blab and commotion on the list. It is the same how you choose to write your name, using Cyrillic or English letters. Ilya Chernikh or something like that. Please calm down, have some pivo and vobla. Alex On 08/03/10 04:24, Илья Черных wrote:
Absolutely agreed. Just imagine that KDE4 would have been named "Tolomberine" Or "Plasma-Desktop"
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (21)
-
Adam Tauno Williams
-
Alex
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Anders Johansson
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Andrew Joakimsen
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Anton Aylward
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C
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Carlos E. R.
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Dotan Cohen
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Duaine Hechler
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Felix Miata
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G T Smith
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Istvan Gabor
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Lubos Lunak
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Michael S. Dunsaavage
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Mike
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Patrick Shanahan
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Rajko M.
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Rodney Baker
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Sven Burmeister
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Will Stephenson
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Илья Черных