Re: [opensuse] Cannot get rid of nouveau driver in 13.2

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[opensuse] Why those packages wish...

Mark Goldstein

21 Nov 2014 21 Nov '14

18:28

Hi, On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Constantine wrote:

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On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Mark Goldstein wrote:

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Hi,

I have an old machine that I use as a "testbed". I've installed 13.2 (32 bit) on it and trying to configure it. It has relatively old GeForce FX card (5xxx) that does not have driver in rpm repository for 13.2 (why?) (it should be 173.something), so I had to go "hard way". I added "blacklist nouveau" to /etc/modprobe.d/50-blacklist.conf and modeset.nouveau=0 to the grub2 line, but the nouveau is still loaded (as shown by lsmod). (The options added automatically by NVidia installer did not help either: it actually creates separate conf file in /etc/modprobe.d with blacklist nouveau and option modeset.nouveau=0).

Is the recommendation in SDB:NVIDIA_the_hard_way obsolete? Anyone has experience with removing nouveau driver in 13.2?

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try to add nomodeset to grub.

Not sure what nomodeset has to do with removing nouveau? Long ago I had to use nomodeset for NVidia 92.xxx driver (even older card), otherwise X wouldn't start. But in this case, as other guys explained, I had to re-build initramfs... and find out that the 173.xxxx series of NVidia drivers is not supported for new kernels (>3.15 something) and xorg (>1.12 or something like that). Thanks anyway. -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Felix Miata

21 Nov 21 Nov

22:22

New subject: [opensuse] Cannot get rid of nouveau driver in 13.2

Mark Goldstein composed on 2014-11-21 20:28 (UTC+0200):

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Is the recommendation in SDB:NVIDIA_the_hard_way obsolete? Anyone has experience with removing nouveau driver in 13.2?

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try to add nomodeset to grub.

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Not sure what nomodeset has to do with removing nouveau?

Nouveau requires KMS. Nomodeset disables KMS, which denies loading of nouveau. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Mark Goldstein

22 Nov 22 Nov

07:10

New subject: [opensuse] Cannot get rid of nouveau driver in 13.2

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

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Mark Goldstein composed on 2014-11-21 20:28 (UTC+0200):

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Is the recommendation in SDB:NVIDIA_the_hard_way obsolete? Anyone has experience with removing nouveau driver in 13.2?

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try to add nomodeset to grub.

...
Not sure what nomodeset has to do with removing nouveau?

Nouveau requires KMS. Nomodeset disables KMS, which denies loading of nouveau.

OK, I see. Still the SDB article mentions modeset.nouveau=0. And rebuilding of initramfs. (Why graphical card driver is included into initramfs is another question). In any case, the NVidia drivers for "old" GeForce FX series are not supported anymore. Old jokes about MS SW upgrades causing users to buy new HW unfortunately hold for Linux as well :-( -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

12:29

New subject: [opensuse] Cannot get rid of nouveau driver in 13.2

Mark Goldstein composed on 2014-11-22 09:10 (UTC+0200):

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Felix Miata wrote:

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Mark Goldstein composed on 2014-11-21 20:28 (UTC+0200):

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Is the recommendation in SDB:NVIDIA_the_hard_way obsolete? Anyone has experience with removing nouveau driver in 13.2?

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...
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try to add nomodeset to grub.

...

...
...
Not sure what nomodeset has to do with removing nouveau?

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Nouveau requires KMS. Nomodeset disables KMS, which denies loading of nouveau.

...

OK, I see. Still the SDB article mentions modeset.nouveau=0. And

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Linuxrc explains nomodeset is generic, while nouveau.modeset=0 is specific to NVidia chips. I've updated https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:NVIDIA_the_hard_way to match, even though I never use proprietary video drivers in Linux.

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rebuilding of initramfs. (Why graphical card driver is included into initramfs is another question).

I think it may be there for the benefit of bling, aka Plymouth.

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In any case, the NVidia drivers for "old" GeForce FX series are not supported anymore. Old jokes about MS SW upgrades causing users to buy new HW unfortunately hold for Linux as well :-(

NVidia drivers are provided by NVidia. You could try complaining to NVidia, but don't forget it's in the business of selling hardware. Nouveau is FOSS. For nouveau to continue to provide support for old chips, there need to be community members testing those old chips using betaware and reporting bugs for any observed failures. The developers seem to upgrade their hardware more often than the general population and not keep the old stuff in use, if at all, depending on the people who depend on old hardware continuing to work being involved in the FOSS process. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Mark Goldstein

15:34

New subject: [opensuse] Cannot get rid of nouveau driver in 13.2

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Felix Miata wrote:

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Mark Goldstein composed on 2014-11-22 09:10 (UTC+0200):

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Felix Miata wrote:

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Mark Goldstein composed on 2014-11-21 20:28 (UTC+0200):

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Is the recommendation in SDB:NVIDIA_the_hard_way obsolete? Anyone has experience with removing nouveau driver in 13.2?

...
...
...
...
try to add nomodeset to grub.

...
...
...
Not sure what nomodeset has to do with removing nouveau?

...
...
Nouveau requires KMS. Nomodeset disables KMS, which denies loading of nouveau.

...
OK, I see. Still the SDB article mentions modeset.nouveau=0. And

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Linuxrc explains nomodeset is generic, while nouveau.modeset=0 is specific to NVidia chips. I've updated https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:NVIDIA_the_hard_way to match, even though I never use proprietary video drivers in Linux.

Thank you. So it is nouveau.modeset=0 and not modeset.nouveau=0?

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rebuilding of initramfs. (Why graphical card driver is included into initramfs is another question).

I think it may be there for the benefit of bling, aka Plymouth.

...

...
In any case, the NVidia drivers for "old" GeForce FX series are not supported anymore. Old jokes about MS SW upgrades causing users to buy new HW unfortunately hold for Linux as well :-(

NVidia drivers are provided by NVidia. You could try complaining to NVidia, but don't forget it's in the business of selling hardware. Yes, I understand that. Note that 173.xxxx branch was dropped after

That's what I thought as well. the "incompatible" changes in one of opensource components: kernel and/or x server. I do not have enough knowledge to say whether these changes were necessary and why it was not possible to keep backward compatibility. These things happen from time to time.

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Nouveau is FOSS. For nouveau to continue to provide support for old chips, there need to be community members testing those old chips using betaware and reporting bugs for any observed failures. The developers seem to upgrade their hardware more often than the general population and not keep the old stuff in use, if at all, depending on the people who depend on old hardware continuing to work being involved in the FOSS process.

Unfortunately, nouveau never worked well on my HW (two main issues: fickering, and shifting of the view area of the screen. I use the same screen on my main machine and on old test machine, with KVM), so I'm normally switching to proprietary driver. I guess, QA should have some older HW (not going back to PC-XT, but at least 4-5 years back. Of course it is easy to say, but it means space, additional testing cycles and probably more). -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dylan

16:21

New subject: [opensuse] Cannot get rid of nouveau driver in 13.2

On 22/11/14 15:34, Mark Goldstein wrote:

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Mark Goldstein composed on 2014-11-22 09:10 (UTC+0200):

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Felix Miata wrote: In any case, the NVidia drivers for "old" GeForce FX series are not supported anymore. Old jokes about MS SW upgrades causing users to buy new HW unfortunately hold for Linux as well :-(

NVidia drivers are provided by NVidia. You could try complaining to NVidia, but don't forget it's in the business of selling hardware. Yes, I understand that. Note that 173.xxxx branch was dropped after

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Felix Miata wrote: the "incompatible" changes in one of opensource components: kernel and/or x server. I do not have enough knowledge to say whether these changes were necessary and why it was not possible to keep backward compatibility. These things happen from time to time.

AIUI it is the result of legacy kernel features being removed and NVidia not being prepared to update their code. There was plenty of time (years) between implementation of the replacement kernel features and removal of the legacy code. This sort of code housekeeping has to be done to prevent the kernel balooning; remove potentially compromised code; improve efficiency and development processes among many other reasons...

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Nouveau is FOSS. For nouveau to continue to provide support for old chips, there need to be community members testing those old chips using betaware and reporting bugs for any observed failures. The developers seem to upgrade their hardware more often than the general population and not keep the old stuff in use, if at all, depending on the people who depend on old hardware continuing to work being involved in the FOSS process.

Unfortunately, nouveau never worked well on my HW (two main issues: fickering, and shifting of the view area of the screen. I use the same screen on my main machine and on old test machine, with KVM), so I'm normally switching to proprietary driver.

This (especially "shifting of the view area") sounds more like an issue with the KVM (in-)correctly reporting or transferring monitor metrics, or otherwise confusing the display adaptor/monitor communication than an issue with the nouveau driver per se. I have often seen similar problems when there is a sync rate or resolution difference between machines sharing a monitor on KVM. £0.02 Dx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Mark Goldstein

18:13

New subject: [opensuse] Cannot get rid of nouveau driver in 13.2

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Dylan wrote:

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On 22/11/14 15:34, Mark Goldstein wrote: ...

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Yes, I understand that. Note that 173.xxxx branch was dropped after the "incompatible" changes in one of opensource components: kernel and/or x server. I do not have enough knowledge to say whether these changes were necessary and why it was not possible to keep backward compatibility. These things happen from time to time.

AIUI it is the result of legacy kernel features being removed and NVidia not being prepared to update their code. There was plenty of time (years) between implementation of the replacement kernel features and removal of the legacy code. This sort of code housekeeping has to be done to prevent the kernel balooning; remove potentially compromised code; improve efficiency and development processes among many other reasons...

OK, sounds logical.

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Unfortunately, nouveau never worked well on my HW (two main issues: fickering, and shifting of the view area of the screen. I use the same screen on my main machine and on old test machine, with KVM), so I'm normally switching to proprietary driver.

This (especially "shifting of the view area") sounds more like an issue with the KVM (in-)correctly reporting or transferring monitor metrics, or otherwise confusing the display adaptor/monitor communication than an issue with the nouveau driver per se. I have often seen similar problems when there is a sync rate or resolution difference between machines sharing a monitor on KVM.

Yep, I also suspect that KVM has a part in it, though with NVidia driver everything works. I can see that nouveau driver detects display type correctly (from EDID info). Maybe I'll play a bi with configurations (copying from xorg.conf generated by nvidia). Thanks, -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Dylan
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