mini laptop install

jdd

12 Feb 2006 12 Feb '06

08:56

Hello again :-) I have some questions, not all may be for this list, but it's hard to separate them. I have an "baby" admin course on line and want to adapt it to opensuse (it's for now about 9.0) * it wont be setup before 2-3 month. So is it better to wait for 10.1 (or use beta 5 in the mean time) or to stay on 10.0? I never tried 10.1, but, reading here I feel sometimes it's more an 11 than a 10.1 :-) * I have at hand a very pretty little box with 9.1 running. It's an Acer Travelmate 312D 12Gb hard drive, but only 48Mo ram. floppy and CD -but pcmcia cd and don't boot!- so slackware utility don't do it :-( the page http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_without_CD is _very_ confusing If I continue using ths laptop, I will take care of the page update, but I was accostumed to two possible way to achive the goals: - use floppies. are they still available on 10.0 (not clear from the cd) and 10.1? anyway this is a last chance make, because de 7 and more floppies of last versions are discouraging. - copy install on the hard drive. I have two unused logical 2Gb partitions. may I use them? what may I copy? I can't copy a dvd, but I need only a minimum install (no graphic needed and I have a perfectly working pcmcia net card for the following of the install) may I copy an iso image or the raw disk content? (just a clue is enough, I will manage the details) - It would be much simpler to have a version of the sbootmgr.dsk allowing pcmcia cd... thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

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houghi

12 Feb 12 Feb

14:48

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 09:56:21AM +0100, jdd wrote: <snip>

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http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_without_CD <snip>

I can not comment on the other issues. Sorry. What is confusing about that page? What you need to do is the following: You need a partition of say 5GB to place the stuff you want to install and that won't be formatted during installation. e.g. if that is your /home partition, then use that. If you do not have such a partition, it won't work. Say you have /dev/hda3 mounted as /home, then you could do: makeSUSEdvd -i -s /home/user/SUSE Next edit /etc/fstab to include what makeSUSEdvd tells you. Reboot boot the selected thing. houghi -- A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation. -- H. H. Munroe

jdd

16:24

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

houghi wrote:

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On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 09:56:21AM +0100, jdd wrote: <snip>

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http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_without_CD <snip>

I can not comment on the other issues. Sorry.

What is confusing about that page? What you need to do is the following:

You need a partition of say 5GB to place the stuff you want to install and that won't be formatted during installation.

false. you need only a partition of 700Mb to copy the first cd (tried 1 hour ago). most of all, I didn't find (may be it is, but cloaked :-) an exposure of the meaning of all that. as a summary it should say: You have no cd available for whatever reason at boot time, but can copy stuff on the hard drive. What do you need _at minimum_: * room for at least 700Mo (copy of the first cd or of it's iso image). This can be on any partition, readable by you. * enough room in an other partition to install the new SUSE Linux. * a running Linux *- on the very same computer *- from the boot floppies of any SUSE Linux what is the meaning of this:

...

e.g. if that is your /home partition, then use that. If you do not have such a partition, it won't work.

Say you have /dev/hda3 mounted as /home, then you could do: makeSUSEdvd -i -s /home/user/SUSE

if you make an install, you are root! so you can use any directory. for the simpler way, a directory from / is better (ie /suse10). I can't have makedvd. think that if you don't have a cd, you probably don't have neither a recent computer, so probably not room for a dvd nor power to compile it with makedvd. My one have 4Gb spare (for the source and the install), a P233... and 43Mb ram (wich seems to prevent 10.0 from installing, see below)

...

Next edit /etc/fstab to include what makeSUSEdvd tells you.

an example!! what makedvd is going to do??? is it making an iso dvd? if so why dont copy the iso dvd right there in the first place? do you make a loop mount? can you boot from an image (this should be nice and advertised in the first place) and how? most of all, I don't bother to risk my present install before being sure that all this is good. I don't like the idea of modifying grub. can I do this on the command line? whith the slackware floppy? with only one grub floppy? any step should be clear. to not be too long, I can't explain all. The simpler way is to: create /suse on an ext2 partition (no module to load at boot time) copy there the first cd (many solutions) burn the SUSE boot floppies, any distribution, old ones are best (less cd) - the better is the one of the same age than the computer :-) boot from floppies, manual install, set language, install, from disk (shows partitions) /suse...and go on... you should have a running SUSE and be able to install the rest. if you can boot from an image, it's much better, floppies are horrible. and 10.0 fails with errors (on the F4 console) - 43Mb ram, 250Mg swap seems not to suffice (9.1 runs perfectly) - 3 tries. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

houghi

17:08

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 05:24:33PM +0100, jdd wrote:

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false. you need only a partition of 700Mb to copy the first cd (tried 1 hour ago).

Well, if you want to be precice, you ony need 60MB for the boot.iso. If you have the place, having it all on one place is however a lot easier, because later you can point to it as an installation source. It will make installing extra stuff a lot faster.

...

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Say you have /dev/hda3 mounted as /home, then you could do: makeSUSEdvd -i -s /home/user/SUSE

if you make an install, you are root! so you can use any directory. for the simpler way, a directory from / is better (ie /suse10).

Well, yes. You can put it anywhere, as long as it is on a seperate partition. /home is the most likely to be on a seperate partition. Having it on /suse10 is something I would not do. I would rather use a more apropriate place that is in line with fhs.

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I can't have makedvd.

I asume you are talking about makeSUSdvd. Why can't you have it?

...

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Next edit /etc/fstab to include what makeSUSEdvd tells you.

an example!! what makedvd is going to do??? is it making an iso dvd? if so why dont copy the iso dvd right there in the first place? do you make a loop mount?

No, it is not. At least not with the parameters I provided. More on makeSUSEdvd on http://en.opensuse.org/Making_a_DVD_from_CDs

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can you boot from an image (this should be nice and advertised in the first place) and how?

There is no image (iso) made)

...

most of all, I don't bother to risk my present install before being sure that all this is good. I don't like the idea of modifying grub. can I do this on the command line? whith the slackware floppy? with only one grub floppy?

Sure. However adding things to /boot/grub/menu.lst will not break it. Just copy-paste what makeSUSEdvd tells you. The worst that can happen is that that won't boot the installation. It will not harm your present boot process. If you want to boot in another way, no problem, whatever floats your boat.

...

any step should be clear.

to not be too long, I can't explain all. The simpler way is to:

create /suse on an ext2 partition (no module to load at boot time) copy there the first cd (many solutions)

One solution is makeSUSEdvd Wether you download just the first CD, the first 3, or all is of no imprtance to makeSUSEdvd

...

burn the SUSE boot floppies, any distribution, old ones are best (less cd) - the better is the one of the same age than the computer :-)

boot from floppies, manual install, set language, install, from disk (shows partitions) /suse...and go on...

You could boot from floppies. I do not really see the advatange, but you could. If space is a problem, use the boot.iso

...

you should have a running SUSE and be able to install the rest.

if you can boot from an image, it's much better, floppies are horrible.

Well. That is the reason I don't use them (exept as backup) and just edit /boot/grub/menu.lst

...

and 10.0 fails with errors (on the F4 console) - 43Mb ram, 250Mg swap seems not to suffice (9.1 runs perfectly) - 3 tries.

That is unfortunatly not going to change with the way you install. houghi -- Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them. -- Samuel Butler

jdd

18:07

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

houghi wrote:

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Well, yes. You can put it anywhere, as long as it is on a seperate partition.

separate from what? here you see the start is not enough defined. rignt now I want to keep my old linux as long as the new is not up, so I can have the data on my normal / partition, I wont write on it :-). Of course it's not the case for anybody

...

I asume you are talking about makeSUSdvd. Why can't you have it?

is it on the cd? - yes I could manage to have it, but if it's name is right it makes dvd, and I can't allow room enough for dvd image

...

...
...
Next edit /etc/fstab to include what makeSUSEdvd tells you. an example!! what makedvd is going to do??? is it making an iso dvd? if so why dont copy the iso dvd right there in the first place? do you make a loop mount?

No, it is not. At least not with the parameters I provided. More on makeSUSEdvd on http://en.opensuse.org/Making_a_DVD_from_CDs

so you should explain what is makesusedvd doing...

...

If you want to boot in another way, no problem, whatever floats your boat.

say the only reral problem is probably that I don't know what makeSUSEdvd is going to do. si I can't plan, and I sure wont beging a thing I don't understand

...

One solution is makeSUSEdvd Wether you download just the first CD, the first 3, or all is of no imprtance to makeSUSEdvd

is that said? may be :-) but I did not see that

...

Well. That is the reason I don't use them (exept as backup) and just edit /boot/grub/menu.lst

but this don't works in the case you have no linux installed yet. it's a case I need to cope with also as I said this is just a matter of explanations. I use to take notes as I work, days after I don't ever remmber why I didn't know howto do such easy things :-) I will take care of the install page after having all tested thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

houghi

18:33

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 07:07:22PM +0100, jdd wrote:

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separate from what? here you see the start is not enough defined. rignt now I want to keep my old linux as long as the new is not up, so I can have the data on my normal / partition, I wont write on it :-). Of course it's not the case for anybody

Seperate from any other partitions.

...

...
I asume you are talking about makeSUSdvd. Why can't you have it?

is it on the cd? - yes I could manage to have it, but if it's name is right it makes dvd, and I can't allow room enough for dvd image

It started with just making a DVD iso, but now it does more. No it is not on the DVD.

...

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No, it is not. At least not with the parameters I provided. More on makeSUSEdvd on http://en.opensuse.org/Making_a_DVD_from_CDs

so you should explain what is makesusedvd doing...

Read the page, It is explained there

...

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If you want to boot in another way, no problem, whatever floats your boat.

say the only reral problem is probably that I don't know what makeSUSEdvd is going to do. si I can't plan, and I sure wont beging a thing I don't understand

Read the page, download it and look at the source.

...

...
One solution is makeSUSEdvd Wether you download just the first CD, the first 3, or all is of no imprtance to makeSUSEdvd

is that said? may be :-) but I did not see that

...
Well. That is the reason I don't use them (exept as backup) and just edit /boot/grub/menu.lst

but this don't works in the case you have no linux installed yet. it's a case I need to cope with also

I was under the impression that there was a Linux already installed. If not, then a linux program like makeSUSedvd does not work.

...

as I said this is just a matter of explanations.

I use to take notes as I work, days after I don't ever remmber why I didn't know howto do such easy things :-)

I will take care of the install page after having all tested

To me it is all prety clear. :-) houghi -- If you think last Tuesday was a drag, wait till you see what happens tomorrow!

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger

18:11

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

jdd schrieb:

...

houghi wrote:

...
On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 09:56:21AM +0100, jdd wrote: <snip>

...
http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_without_CD

<snip>

I can not comment on the other issues. Sorry.

What is confusing about that page? What you need to do is the following:

You need a partition of say 5GB to place the stuff you want to install and that won't be formatted during installation.

false. you need only a partition of 700Mb to copy the first cd (tried 1 hour ago).

Incorrect. You need exactly *zero* additional space if you install from network and your current system is a Linux version supporting kexec. You can even choose to format the whole drive in such an installation without any problems. More information about Kexec: http://en.opensuse.org/Kexec If that isn't sufficient, I can write a section in http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_without_CD about using Kexec for that purpose. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/

houghi

18:35

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 07:11:07PM +0100, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:

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If that isn't sufficient, I can write a section in http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_without_CD about using Kexec for that purpose.

That would be nice. houghi -- "You must realize that the computer has it in for you. The irrefutable proof of this is that the computer always does what you tell it to do."

jdd

18:40

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:

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Incorrect. You need exactly *zero* additional space if you install from network

it's not the matter, here, we speak about hard drive install. with the (8) SUSE Linux 10.0 floppies, I can install froms anywhere, even cd or network, but it takes a half dayr to create the floppies, it needs fresh floppy (or twice the time with old ones, 2 on 3 are unusable), and using 8 floppies is awfull (I know, I did :-) tha slack floppy is wonderfull (100kib only!!) but don't know about pcmcia and my cd and network are pcmcia... I don't know about kexec, it would be really fine if you can set a wiki page about it, thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

houghi

19:04

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install [ long, sorry]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 07:40:00PM +0100, jdd wrote:

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I don't know about kexec, it would be really fine if you can set a wiki page about it, thanks

I am sorry to ask, but do you actually read what you reply to? He gave a link to the page. houghi -- My mother loved children -- she would have given anything if I had been one. -- Groucho Marx

Eberhard Moenkeberg

19:55

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

Hi, On Sun, 12 Feb 2006, jdd wrote:

...

with the (8) SUSE Linux 10.0 floppies, I can install froms anywhere, even cd or network, but it takes a half dayr to create the floppies, it needs fresh floppy (or twice the time with old ones, 2 on 3 are unusable), and using 8 floppies is awfull (I know, I did :-)

tha slack floppy is wonderfull (100kib only!!) but don't know about pcmcia and my cd and network are pcmcia...

You can install a new boot target within your old system by simply using linux and initrd from the CD1 boot/loader/ directory. This is a full equivalent of the whole floppy disk set. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

jdd

13 Feb 13 Feb

07:28

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

...

Hi,

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006, jdd wrote:

...
with the (8) SUSE Linux 10.0 floppies, I can install froms anywhere, even cd or network, but it takes a half dayr to create the floppies, it needs fresh floppy (or twice the time with old ones, 2 on 3 are unusable), and using 8 floppies is awfull (I know, I did :-)

tha slack floppy is wonderfull (100kib only!!) but don't know about pcmcia and my cd and network are pcmcia...

You can install a new boot target within your old system by simply using linux and initrd from the CD1 boot/loader/ directory. This is a full equivalent of the whole floppy disk set.

Cheers -e very interesting, I will investigate

Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote: thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

Christian Boltz

18:58

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

Hello, Am Sonntag, 12. Februar 2006 20:55 schrieb Eberhard Moenkeberg: [...]

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You can install a new boot target within your old system by simply using linux and initrd from the CD1 boot/loader/ directory.

In 10.1 it's boot/<arch>/loader/ ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- Ich glaube nicht, daß es je einem Briefkasten gelungen ist durch Namenslosigkeit oder Pseudonym den Werbeblättchen des Supermarkts auf der grünen Wiese oder denen einer politischen Partei direkt vor Wahl verschont zu bleiben. [Helga Fischer in suse-linux]

jdd

14 Feb 14 Feb

15:20

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

Christian Boltz wrote:

...

Hello,

Am Sonntag, 12. Februar 2006 20:55 schrieb Eberhard Moenkeberg: [...]

...
You can install a new boot target within your old system by simply using linux and initrd from the CD1 boot/loader/ directory.

In 10.1 it's boot/<arch>/loader/ ;-)

and it's a very nice data :-) do you know if all this works from fat32 (that is, is grub able to use a windows partition?)? because from Linux, no need to install or modify anything! just use grub mini console... that is: copy linux and initrd anywhere (/boot is nice) write down the grub way of naming :-) (for me (hd0,0)) then boot any grub (may be a floppy, your own linux boot...) ESC c kernel (hd0,0)/nameofyourlinux (and tab completion works) initrd (hd0,0)/nameofyourinitrd boot and thats all... however 10.1 install sees my pcmcia, install modules but can't use my cdreader (not found in yast) not yet tried the network card. I'm on the way of trying the disk install (I just copy the cd to harddrive) thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

Christian Boltz

12 Feb 12 Feb

16:47

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

Hello, Am Sonntag, 12. Februar 2006 09:56 schrieb jdd:

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* it wont be setup before 2-3 month. So is it better to wait for 10.1 (or use beta 5 in the mean time) or to stay on 10.0? I never tried 10.1, but, reading here I feel sometimes it's more an 11 than a 10.1 :-)

If you have to wait for at least 2 months, use 10.1 ;-)

...

* I have at hand a very pretty little box with 9.1 running. It's an Acer Travelmate 312D

12Gb hard drive, but only 48Mo ram.

The hard drive is OK, but you should try to get more RAM into it. Really.

...

http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_without_CD

is _very_ confusing

Maybe it's because it describes multiple methods for installation - but splitting up into several pages would need to duplicate some of the common notes. What about http://en.opensuse.org/Network_Install ? ;-)

...

If I continue using ths laptop, I will take care of the page update, but I was accostumed to two possible way to achive the goals:

- use floppies. are they still available on 10.0 (not clear from the cd) and 10.1? anyway this is a last chance make, because de 7 and more floppies of last versions are discouraging.

There should be a script to create boot floppies on CD1/DVD/FTP - but don't ask me for details.

...

- copy install on the hard drive. I have two unused logical 2Gb partitions. may I use them? what may I copy? I can't copy a dvd, but I need only a minimum install (no graphic needed and I have a perfectly working pcmcia net card for the following of the install)

Just copy what you need - or simply copy the two files you need to put into your bootloader - see link above. BTW: If you want a remote source, but see the installation local, remove the "usessh=1 sshpassword=..." parameters.

...

may I copy an iso image or the raw disk content? (just a clue is enough, I will manage the details)

If you "mount -o loop" them manually, yes. You should use mount points /somewhere/CD1/ ... /somewhere/CD5/ and point YaST to /somewhere/CD1/. However, you still need the boot loader entry and have to copy the boot files out of the isos. Regards, Christian Boltz -- Jetzt kriege ich es echt mit der Angst: da gibt es Zeilen in meinem Code der identisch mit dem von SCO ist, etwa ein "include " oder aber auch ein hinterlistiges "default:break;". [Michael Karges in suse-linux]

Andreas Jaeger

17:45

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

jdd writes:

...

[...] * I have at hand a very pretty little box with 9.1 running. It's an Acer Travelmate 312D

12Gb hard drive, but only 48Mo ram.

48 MB is far too little and I doubt that you will have fun with it even if you get it installed, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

jdd

17:58

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

jdd writes:

...
[...] * I have at hand a very pretty little box with 9.1 running. It's an Acer Travelmate 312D

12Gb hard drive, but only 48Mo ram.

48 MB is far too little and I doubt that you will have fun with it even if you get it installed,

it's a funny but very old machine. however I managed to replace a 32Mb ram by a spare 34Mo for a 76 total, it works much better :-) but my problem is two heads: * It's used to apply an admin course. mostly all with console. so ram is not really a problem (should not :-) * I ask my students to have a donated PC or to buy one to be able to experiment without fear. admin is not likely to be safe on a production machine. Here, in France, and I beg it's the same on all the industrialized countries, old PC are sent to the trashcan. one can find testeds ones for as less as $50, so buy one is not a problem. even it's a matter of implication for my students, my course is pretty harsh, not a toy, and asks for many hard work for users that, most of the time, are pretty newbies. If they pay for hardware, they may do the course :-))) thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

Per Jessen

18:10

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

jdd writes:

...
[...] * I have at hand a very pretty little box with 9.1 running. It's an Acer Travelmate 312D

12Gb hard drive, but only 48Mo ram.

48 MB is far too little and I doubt that you will have fun with it even if you get it installed,

I would tend to agree. I've got a Toshiba 320CDT with 64Mb, which I _have_ succeeded installing onto, but as for usability it's text-mode only. I think some of the simpler window managers would actually run, but I haven't tried. I cannot imagine KDE running in only 64M. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- http://www.spamchek.com/ - managed anti-spam and anti-virus solution. Let us analyse your spam- and virus-threat - up to 2 months for free.

jdd

18:43

New subject: [opensuse] mini laptop install

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...
jdd writes:

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[...] * I have at hand a very pretty little box with 9.1 running. It's an Acer Travelmate 312D

12Gb hard drive, but only 48Mo ram. 48 MB is far too little and I doubt that you will have fun with it even if you get it installed,

I would tend to agree. I've got a Toshiba 320CDT with 64Mb, which I _have_ succeeded installing onto, but as for usability it's text-mode only. I think some of the simpler window managers would actually run, but I haven't tried. I cannot imagine KDE running in only 64M.

/Per Jessen, Zürich

kde runs... even openoffice P233 was time ago a very strong config :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos