Re: [SLE] Managing Upgrade from 9.2 to 9.3
My 9.2 -> 9.3 upgrade was an unmitigated disaster. Every time I try upgrading SuSE it's a mess. I used to buy the boxed set each time, but it puts me through so much crap that I decided I don't want to continue paying for it. I can get that kind of abuse for free, so last time I waited to upgrade to 9.2 until it was on the ftp sites. This time I decided to get it from the infamous torrent. It has caused me problems on all three systems I installed it on, but on the first two they were easily solved. So I tried upgrading my MAIN machine from 9.2 (up to date with apt) to 9.3. Disaster. No X, fetchnvidia.sh fetches a driver that segfaults upon startup. No sound, alsa segfaulted No printing, it can't find my usb printer that has worked fine with all previous versions of suse and STILL works perfectly with win xp, but 9.3 simply can't find a printer there. So, since I have /home on a separate partition, and have backups, I decided to bite the bullet and do a clean install. I still have the same problems. What a piece of crap. I'm glad I didn't PAY for this mess. SuSE's been going downhill at a breakneck pace since Novell took over.
On Sunday 17 April 2005 10:29 am, Paul Cartwright wrote:
just curious, when you say backup entire system, what do you mean, and what did you use?
I use two different ones, dar and backup2l . Just recently started using dar and may switch to it entirely, just haven't decided. As for what I mean by backing up the entire system, just what I said, dar creates a backup of everything on the system for me. It's on your SuSE CD/DVD, check it out. I have it dump the backup slices to a networked Buffalo Linkstation. Every once and a while I burn DVDs of the slices.
usr/local ?? help me out here, I have been backing up /etc and /home, what do I need from /usr/local ? ?
Well behaved applications that you may install off the net or elsewhere will generally install themselves to /usr/local so by preserving /usr/local, you will not have to reinstall all those applications after a fresh install.
Either way seems more painful to me than it should be. I really hate to use Windows as an example, but OS upgrades in Windows did not break a bunch of stuff on me like the Linux upgrades seem to do.
um, well... I beg to differ... XP SP1 broke a bunch of stuff on my setup. I've had to back out a few others in my time, but lets not talk M$ today :)
:) OK, agreed. No win talk today <g>
Scott
-- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.11.4-20a-default x86_64
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On Sun April 17 2005 2:20 pm, michaelnel@comcast.net wrote:
My 9.2 -> 9.3 upgrade was an unmitigated disaster. Every time I try upgrading SuSE it's a mess. I used to buy the boxed set each time, but it puts me through so much crap that I decided I don't want to continue paying for it. I can get that kind of abuse for free, so last time I waited to upgrade to 9.2 until it was on the ftp sites.
I wanted the box set for the manuals, and to help continue development. so I got the 9.2 Pro version.
So I tried upgrading my MAIN machine from 9.2 (up to date with apt) to 9.3. Disaster.
No X, fetchnvidia.sh fetches a driver that segfaults upon startup.
I installed 9.3 on a freshly formatted slice, on the same drive where I have 9.2 installed. NVidia installed no problem, my Gforce video card works fine, and I managed to turn on 3D acceleration before I finished the install.
No sound, alsa segfaulted
I'll have to check, I don't remember sounds.
No printing, it can't find my usb printer that has worked fine with all previous versions of suse and STILL works perfectly with win xp, but 9.3 simply can't find a printer there.
It found my Epson 880 first try, and I installed my Panasonic KX-P1124 parallel myself.
So, since I have /home on a separate partition, and have backups, I decided to bite the bullet and do a clean install.
good idea:)
I still have the same problems.
What a piece of crap. I'm glad I didn't PAY for this mess. SuSE's been going downhill at a breakneck pace since Novell took over.
the reason I did a fresh install was to avoid crashing my existing setup, which I did, so I can tweak 9.3 till I'm happy, then convert over:) YMMV -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux user # 367800 X-Request-PGP: http://home.comcast.net/~p.cartwright/wsb/key.asc
On Sunday 17 April 2005 11:20 am, michaelnel@comcast.net wrote:
My 9.2 -> 9.3 upgrade was an unmitigated disaster. Every time I try upgrading SuSE it's a mess. I used to buy the boxed set each time, but it puts me through so much crap that I decided I don't want to continue paying for it. I can get that kind of abuse for free, so last time I waited to upgrade to 9.2 until it was on the ftp sites.
<snip> What a piece of crap. I'm glad I didn't PAY for this mess. SuSE's been going downhill at a breakneck pace since Novell took over.
Sorry to hear you are having so many problems. All I can say is that while my upgrade was not painless, it was certainly no worse than going from 9.1 to 9.2 or 9.0 to 9.1. Actually, it was smoother this time aside from my mail configuration issues. From where I'm sitting, I don't see it as going downhill at all. I see small improvements but some of the same issues that have always been there are still there. Scott -- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.11.4-20a-default x86_64
On Sunday 17 April 2005 20:20, michaelnel@comcast.net wrote:
What a piece of crap. I'm glad I didn't PAY for this mess.
Let's see, you got a DVD from a source you don't know and haven't verified, but somehow suse is to blame.
SuSE's been going downhill at a breakneck pace since Novell took over.
You really are clueless, aren't you. Every new release, there are people complaining about the upgrades. No, it's not the big bad corporation's fault. It's just the way it is. Some have problems, some haven't. But considering where you got it from, I'd say you have forfeited your right to complain
michaelnel@comcast.net wrote:
My 9.2 -> 9.3 upgrade was an unmitigated disaster. Every time I try upgrading SuSE it's a mess. I used to buy the boxed set each time, but it puts me through so much crap that I decided I don't want to continue paying for it. I can get that kind of abuse for free, so last time I waited to upgrade to 9.2 until it was on the ftp sites.
This time I decided to get it from the infamous torrent. It has caused me problems on all three systems I installed it on, but on the first two they were easily solved.
So I tried upgrading my MAIN machine from 9.2 (up to date with apt) to 9.3. Disaster.
No X, fetchnvidia.sh fetches a driver that segfaults upon startup.
No sound, alsa segfaulted
No printing, it can't find my usb printer that has worked fine with all previous versions of suse and STILL works perfectly with win xp, but 9.3 simply can't find a printer there.
So, since I have /home on a separate partition, and have backups, I decided to bite the bullet and do a clean install.
I still have the same problems.
What a piece of crap. I'm glad I didn't PAY for this mess. SuSE's been going downhill at a breakneck pace since Novell took over.
Is this the first time you have run Linux, and tried to upgrade? If you are looking for help, ask politely like you would like to be asked. This is a good list with plenty who are willing to help. Dee
On Sunday 17 April 2005 10:29 am, Paul Cartwright wrote:
just curious, when you say backup entire system, what do you mean, and what did you use?
I use two different ones, dar and backup2l . Just recently started using dar and may switch to it entirely, just haven't decided. As for what I mean by backing up the entire system, just what I said, dar creates a backup of everything on the system for me. It's on your SuSE CD/DVD, check it out. I have it dump the backup slices to a networked Buffalo Linkstation. Every once and a while I burn DVDs of the slices.
usr/local ?? help me out here, I have been backing up /etc and /home, what do I need from /usr/local ? ?
Well behaved applications that you may install off the net or elsewhere will generally install themselves to /usr/local so by preserving /usr/local, you will not have to reinstall all those applications after a fresh install.
Either way seems more painful to me than it should be. I really hate to use Windows as an example, but OS upgrades in Windows did not break a bunch of stuff on me like the Linux upgrades seem to do.
um, well... I beg to differ... XP SP1 broke a bunch of stuff on my setup. I've had to back out a few others in my time, but lets not talk M$ today :)
:) OK, agreed. No win talk today <g>
Scott
* W.D.McKinney
Is this the first time you have run Linux, and tried to upgrade? If you are looking for help, ask politely like you would like to be asked. This is a good list with plenty who are willing to help.
He's not *new*, Dee, merely frustrated by his own ignorance and venting, thereby showing his ignorance to the rest of the world. btw, *Please* show us some courtesy by trimming the fluff from your quotes. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* W.D.McKinney
[04-17-05 14:33]: Is this the first time you have run Linux, and tried to upgrade? If you are looking for help, ask politely like you would like to be asked. This is a good list with plenty who are willing to help.
He's not *new*, Dee, merely frustrated by his own ignorance and venting, thereby showing his ignorance to the rest of the world.
btw, *Please* show us some courtesy by trimming the fluff from your quotes.
I did but apprently not enough :-( Upgrading has bit many a user and only the experienced walk with a limp! Since running SuSE since 5.0 I have faithfully backed up to CD and then re-installed fresh every time. Cheers, Dee
On Sunday 17 April 2005 02:20 pm, michaelnel@comcast.net wrote:
My 9.2 -> 9.3 upgrade was an unmitigated disaster. Every time I try upgrading SuSE it's a mess. I used to buy the boxed set each time, but it puts me through so much crap that I decided I don't want to continue paying for it. I can get that kind of abuse for free, so last time I waited to upgrade to 9.2 until it was on the ftp sites.
This time I decided to get it from the infamous torrent. It has caused me problems on all three systems I installed it on, but on the first two they were easily solved.
So I tried upgrading my MAIN machine from 9.2 (up to date with apt) to 9.3. Disaster.
No X, fetchnvidia.sh fetches a driver that segfaults upon startup.
No sound, alsa segfaulted
No printing, it can't find my usb printer that has worked fine with all previous versions of suse and STILL works perfectly with win xp, but 9.3 simply can't find a printer there.
So, since I have /home on a separate partition, and have backups, I decided to bite the bullet and do a clean install.
I still have the same problems.
What a piece of crap. I'm glad I didn't PAY for this mess. SuSE's been going downhill at a breakneck pace since Novell took over.
Updating is always a crapshoot... and it is no fault of the product. I updated once(8.0 --> 8.1), and it didn't turn out like I wanted and I ended up re-installing the previous version (8.0) I have never tried an update since and never will again. When you do a fresh install, you: 1) Learn alot. 2) Avoid incompatibilites 3) Take good notes for the next time (you do, don't you??) 4) Find out what the new feechurs are when you re-config your apps. 5) More of the same. Don't blame the product.... Upgrading is a complex issue.
On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 05:43:24PM -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Don't blame the product.... Upgrading is a complex issue.
I know that. But I did a clean (format / and /boot partitions) install, and alsa STILL cannot find my SB Audigy card, and hotplug/coldplug/lukewarmplug STILL can't get anything on my USB going (most notably, my printer). ALL of that stuff worked in 9.2 yesterday and in all versions of Linux I have tried since installing the hardware several years ago, and it all still works in WinXP when I dual boot into that particular septic tank of an OS. It does NOT work in SuSE 9.3. BTW, I'm not a newbie. I have been running Linux since I downloaded 0.98-something on floppies quite a few years back. I have seen a LOT of distributions and done a LOT of installs, and SuSE just keeps getting worse. Michael -- San Francisco, CA
On Monday 18 April 2005 00:27, Michael Nelson wrote:
BTW, I'm not a newbie. I have been running Linux since I downloaded 0.98-something on floppies quite a few years back.
Then you are a lot more experienced than I am. Surely you can tell us why it isn't working. Point out the areas where suse has made mistakes. Explain to us how they screwed up so your system fails My SBLive went in without a hitch, my nvidia card works perfectly (even the framebuffer works for the first time in years), USB and automounting hasn't shown any errors so far, CD and DVD burning just works. So far the only bug I've seen is in kopete, but gaim isn't a bad substitute
On Sunday 17 April 2005 06:27 pm, Michael Nelson wrote:
It does NOT work in SuSE 9.3.
BTW, I'm not a newbie. I have been running Linux since I downloaded 0.98-something on floppies quite a few years back. I have seen a LOT of distributions and done a LOT of installs, and SuSE just keeps getting worse.
We hear this everytime a new release comes along. Some have a good time, a very few have a bad time. And they all learned something. Try a fresh install and maybe you'll feel better about 9.3. (Sez Bruce, who has 9.3 on order and isn't very worried whether it's going to work)
On Sunday April 17 2005 11:56 am, Scott Leighton wrote:
On Sunday 17 April 2005 11:20 am, michaelnel@comcast.net wrote:
From where I'm sitting, I don't see it as going downhill at all. I see small improvements but some of the same issues that have always been there are still there.
I agree, I did a fresh install on my laptop and updated my desktop. No major problems. I've been using SUSE since 7.1 and this was the smoothest I've had yet. Rich -- Rich Matson Reno, Nv. USA
Michael Nelson wrote:
On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 05:43:24PM -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Don't blame the product.... Upgrading is a complex issue.
I know that.
But I did a clean (format / and /boot partitions) install, and alsa STILL cannot find my SB Audigy card, and hotplug/coldplug/lukewarmplug STILL can't get anything on my USB going (most notably, my printer).
ALL of that stuff worked in 9.2 yesterday and in all versions of Linux I have tried since installing the hardware several years ago, and it all still works in WinXP when I dual boot into that particular septic tank of an OS.
It does NOT work in SuSE 9.3.
BTW, I'm not a newbie. I have been running Linux since I downloaded 0.98-something on floppies quite a few years back. I have seen a LOT of distributions and done a LOT of installs, and SuSE just keeps getting worse.
Michael
Many of us hit problems upgrading and installing 9.2, including a friend who could only get a fresh install on a new HD going by partially installing XP, killling the install and then 9.2 went OK, this was repeatable. I had my problems upgrading, x86_64 laptop went through OK after many retries, x86 on this Athlon box just wouldn't, so I had to do a fresh install without reformatting the partitions. x86 on the other laptop, fresh install was OK. Since then I had to do a fresh install on this Athlon box, also OK. Basically SuSE upgrades don't seem to be the smooth operation they used to be. I missed delivery of my 9.3 today, so my plan is to clone my drive and upgrade/install to the clone, whichever works. On the x86_64 latop my options are fewer, so I shall back up stuff to the USB IDE drive, then have a go upgrading, if that fails, do a fresh install without reformatting and restore stuff from the USB drive once I have a basic working system. Likewise, I started with the first version Linus put up for ftp, booting from floppy, then on HD with bootlace and shoelace from Minix which I was very familiar with, though SLS, MCC, Caldera, RedHat and finally SuSE, Mandrake and gentoo, installed RedHat on SPARC and SuSE on zSeries mainframes/clones, but I never had the sort of trouble I had with 9.2 (upgrade), handled big Solaris installs and upgrades all smoothly - if ever you can imagine a smooth Solaris install, but 9.1 --> 9.2 did bring out the frustration and that was the first experience of its kind with Linux and it gets to you - the lid is very likely to BLOW! - much like with a smooth Solaris upgrade/install. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM Mainframes and Sun Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux for all Computing Tasks
participants (10)
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Anders Johansson
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Bruce Marshall
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C. Richard Matson
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Michael Nelson
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michaelnel@comcast.net
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Patrick Shanahan
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Paul Cartwright
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Scott Leighton
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Sid Boyce
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W.D.McKinney