A long session on the phone the other night with a friend (who is now running Linux with little experience) made me think of a subject that has been on my mind a long time. A FAQ or document for total Linux newbies (but END USERS)
From some of the questions that came up, I figure a FAQ might be the best way to handle it (in HTML format).
I would like to ask the group for input on questions to be answered and also if there is anyone who would like to colaborate on it. Remember: This is for your grandmother, or your computer illiterate brother-in-law. Someone who knows just enough about computers to turn one on and be expected to look at menus, etc and know what a cursor is. Typical questions: 1) How to I access a floppy disk? 2) How do I write a letter? 3) What is a 'console'? (might be needed for recovery situations or other special commands) 4) What do I do if my machine appears stuck? 5) My desktop went away. Where's my Kmail? It would be based on KDE and the very basics of Linux. Therefore it would not be distro specific in any way if it can be avoided. Input of questions to be answered or topics to deal with would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/04/01 15:24 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "It was always thus; and even if 'twere not, 'twould inevitably have been always thus." - Dean Lattimer
On Tuesday 04 September 2001 7:26 pm, Bruce Marshall wrote:
A long session on the phone the other night with a friend (who is now running Linux with little experience) made me think of a subject that has been on my mind a long time.
A FAQ or document for total Linux newbies (but END USERS)
From some of the questions that came up, I figure a FAQ might be the best way to handle it (in HTML format).
I would like to ask the group for input on questions to be answered and also if there is anyone who would like to colaborate on it.
Remember: This is for your grandmother, or your computer illiterate brother-in-law. Someone who knows just enough about computers to turn one on and be expected to look at menus, etc and know what a cursor is.
Typical questions:
1) How to I access a floppy disk? 2) How do I write a letter? 3) What is a 'console'? (might be needed for recovery situations or other special commands) 4) What do I do if my machine appears stuck? 5) My desktop went away. Where's my Kmail?
It would be based on KDE and the very basics of Linux. Therefore it would not be distro specific in any way if it can be avoided.
Input of questions to be answered or topics to deal with would be greatly appreciated.
I'd be pleased to help; contribute, sense check, whatever. Furthermore, I'm picking up a colleagues PC tommorow and doing a clean SuSE 7.2 install for her and was contemplating writing a step-by-step guide covering what I needed to do to: i) Successfully install Linux (I may do this twice - one letting YaST partition and then how I would do it); ii) Setup printer and any other peripherals. iii) Setup the CD-RW iv) Install and configure StarOffice and other applications a Windows user may expect. I'll feedback when it's done. M
On Tuesday 04 September 2001 04:46 pm, Martin Webster wrote:
On Tuesday 04 September 2001 7:26 pm, Bruce Marshall wrote:
A long session on the phone the other night with a friend (who is now running Linux with little experience) made me think of a subject that has been on my mind a long time.
A FAQ or document for total Linux newbies (but END USERS)
From some of the questions that came up, I figure a FAQ might be the best way to handle it (in HTML format).
I would like to ask the group for input on questions to be answered and also if there is anyone who would like to colaborate on it.
Remember: This is for your grandmother, or your computer illiterate brother-in-law. Someone who knows just enough about computers to turn one on and be expected to look at menus, etc and know what a cursor is.
Typical questions:
1) How to I access a floppy disk? 2) How do I write a letter? 3) What is a 'console'? (might be needed for recovery situations or other special commands) 4) What do I do if my machine appears stuck? 5) My desktop went away. Where's my Kmail?
It would be based on KDE and the very basics of Linux. Therefore it would not be distro specific in any way if it can be avoided.
Input of questions to be answered or topics to deal with would be greatly appreciated.
I'd be pleased to help; contribute, sense check, whatever. Furthermore, I'm picking up a colleagues PC tommorow and doing a clean SuSE 7.2 install for her and was contemplating writing a step-by-step guide covering what I needed to do to:
i) Successfully install Linux (I may do this twice - one letting YaST partition and then how I would do it); ii) Setup printer and any other peripherals. iii) Setup the CD-RW iv) Install and configure StarOffice and other applications a Windows user may expect.
I'll feedback when it's done.
M
Great.... however what I contemplate is a FAQ for someone who is either handed a machine with Linux already installed, or perhaps for someone who works at an office where Linux has been installed. In otherwords, using linux only.... no setup, no config, no nothing. Maybe a few tips on 'how do I get out of trouble' but that's it. But if you're going to hand that machine over to a newbie.... please write down the questions that come up along the lines of the above. Thanks! -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/04/01 15:53 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Twinkies: They're not just for breakfast anymore.."
Very laudable! Now if only there were a way of getting people to read it :) This question is one that caused me a lot of headaches when I was trying to play DVDs in linux. It's distribution specific in a sense, but still... Q) My CD/DVD is slower than in windows, and YaST system tuning has nothing to say about it A) hdparm -d 1 /dev/cdrom turns on dma for the CD-player, even though YaST says it can't. Anders On Tuesday 04 September 2001 21.26, Bruce Marshall wrote:
A long session on the phone the other night with a friend (who is now running Linux with little experience) made me think of a subject that has been on my mind a long time.
A FAQ or document for total Linux newbies (but END USERS)
From some of the questions that came up, I figure a FAQ might be the best way to handle it (in HTML format).
I would like to ask the group for input on questions to be answered and also if there is anyone who would like to colaborate on it.
Remember: This is for your grandmother, or your computer illiterate brother-in-law. Someone who knows just enough about computers to turn one on and be expected to look at menus, etc and know what a cursor is.
Typical questions:
1) How to I access a floppy disk? 2) How do I write a letter? 3) What is a 'console'? (might be needed for recovery situations or other special commands) 4) What do I do if my machine appears stuck? 5) My desktop went away. Where's my Kmail?
It would be based on KDE and the very basics of Linux. Therefore it would not be distro specific in any way if it can be avoided.
Input of questions to be answered or topics to deal with would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------- --+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/04/01 15:24 + +-------------------------------------------------------------------------- --+ "It was always thus; and even if 'twere not, 'twould inevitably have been always thus." - Dean Lattimer
On Tuesday 04 September 2001 05:42 pm, Anders Johansson wrote:
This question is one that caused me a lot of headaches when I was trying to play DVDs in linux. It's distribution specific in a sense, but still...
Q) My CD/DVD is slower than in windows, and YaST system tuning has nothing to say about it
A) hdparm -d 1 /dev/cdrom turns on dma for the CD-player, even though YaST says it can't.
Good question and answer.... but the people I am targeting wouldn't even know where to type hdparm and wouldn't do it if they did because they'd be afraid the computer would yell WHHAAAAAATTT?????? at them and then explode. I'm doing this for the END USER.... the masses that can just barely spell komputur and they use the mouse like a tv remote... (hold it up and point it at the screen) :0) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/04/01 19:01 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ " It IS as BAD as you think, and they ARE out to get you."
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 01.03, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Tuesday 04 September 2001 05:42 pm, Anders Johansson wrote:
This question is one that caused me a lot of headaches when I was trying to play DVDs in linux. It's distribution specific in a sense, but still...
Q) My CD/DVD is slower than in windows, and YaST system tuning has nothing to say about it
A) hdparm -d 1 /dev/cdrom turns on dma for the CD-player, even though YaST says it can't.
Good question and answer.... but the people I am targeting wouldn't even know where to type hdparm and wouldn't do it if they did because they'd be afraid the computer would yell WHHAAAAAATTT?????? at them and then explode.
I'm doing this for the END USER.... the masses that can just barely spell komputur and they use the mouse like a tv remote... (hold it up and point it at the screen) :0)
Fair enough, but even in windows some tasks involve going in to the device manager and turning on/off features. Sometimes the computer isn't shipped with DMA on by default, for instance. And your items 3, 4 and 5 will always involve typing commands at a shell prompt (in fact your item 3 is specifically how to do that). Also, I've had quite a lot of experience with the computer illiterate, and I think they're grossly underestimated. While it's true that some are unable to grasp the concepts of computing, and some are simply afraid, most are intelligent people, well qualified in their own fields, and quite capable of following instructions, so long as they're clear and precise. And, to the best of my knowledge, my Q is at present impossible to solve without using a command prompt. What would your answer be when a newbie asks you how to view DVDs under linux? "That can't be done right now. Wait for the next release of YaST/linuxconf/whatever"? (or if there is a tool somewhere that can do this specific task automatically, substitute any command line activity necessary for some task that the newbie wants to do) A FAQ for the *complete* newbie is, as things stand right now, difficult if not impossible to produce, if you shun the command prompt. A man cannot live by GUI alone, if he wants to get his linux box to perform every task it can perform. Not today. Anders
But isn't the point here the need for the FAQ, even for a "newbie," that they might have to get to a system prompt and type such a commmand to "fix" the CD player, even if it is terminal window inside the GUI. The "end user" you refer to here doesn't exist in the land of Linux to my knowledge, having gotten stuck at the Start menu in Windows and then pulling the plug on the komputur out of frustration. Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Tuesday 04 September 2001 05:42 pm, Anders Johansson wrote:
This question is one that caused me a lot of headaches when I was trying to play DVDs in linux. It's distribution specific in a sense, but still...
Q) My CD/DVD is slower than in windows, and YaST system tuning has nothing to say about it
A) hdparm -d 1 /dev/cdrom turns on dma for the CD-player, even though YaST says it can't.
Good question and answer.... but the people I am targeting wouldn't even know where to type hdparm and wouldn't do it if they did because they'd be afraid the computer would yell WHHAAAAAATTT?????? at them and then explode.
I'm doing this for the END USER.... the masses that can just barely spell komputur and they use the mouse like a tv remote... (hold it up and point it at the screen) :0)
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 20:13 pm, Clint Tinsley wrote:
But isn't the point here the need for the FAQ, even for a "newbie," that they might have to get to a system prompt and type such a commmand to "fix" the CD player, even if it is terminal window inside the GUI. The "end user" you refer to here doesn't exist in the land of Linux to my knowledge, having gotten stuck at the Start menu in Windows and then pulling the plug on the komputur out of frustration.
There is *also* a need for a FAQ such as you describe... but I think the two levels of users need to have different levels of FAQ's. To do it all in one would make it too big and too complex. And I *do* think there are end users for linux, and there might be a lot more if there was some good documentation for them to ease into it. There are lots of 'Linux for Dummies' style books and sites like linuxnewbie.org but they are all about the level of the expertise of the typical office worker, who uses windows to send email and write documents but doesn't normally install hardware or software. And most don't want to. I'm shooting for that person. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/05/01 21:44 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Silverman's Paradox: "If Murphy's law can go wrong, it will."
Bruce,
That is an excellent idea! I've asked a question or two on the list and
have a hard time understanding the answers. Yes, I have about 8 or 9 books
on linux, but some may as well be written in Greek (German?).
I don't consider myself (a grandfather, thank you) to be computer
illiterate, just linux illiterate.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Marshall"
A long session on the phone the other night with a friend (who is now running Linux with little experience) made me think of a subject that has been on my mind a long time.
A FAQ or document for total Linux newbies (but END USERS)
From some of the questions that came up, I figure a FAQ might be the best way to handle it (in HTML format).
I would like to ask the group for input on questions to be answered and also if there is anyone who would like to colaborate on it.
Remember: This is for your grandmother, or your computer illiterate brother-in-law. Someone who knows just enough about computers to turn one on and be expected to look at menus, etc and know what a cursor is.
Typical questions:
1) How to I access a floppy disk? 2) How do I write a letter? 3) What is a 'console'? (might be needed for recovery situations or other special commands) 4) What do I do if my machine appears stuck? 5) My desktop went away. Where's my Kmail?
It would be based on KDE and the very basics of Linux. Therefore it would not be distro specific in any way if it can be avoided.
Input of questions to be answered or topics to deal with would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -+
+ Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/04/01 15:24 +
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -+
"It was always thus; and even if 'twere not, 'twould inevitably have been always thus." - Dean Lattimer
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On Tuesday 04 September 2001 08:45 pm, Ron White wrote:
Bruce, That is an excellent idea! I've asked a question or two on the list and have a hard time understanding the answers. Yes, I have about 8 or 9 books on linux, but some may as well be written in Greek (German?).
I don't consider myself (a grandfather, thank you) to be computer illiterate, just linux illiterate.
Well, submit dem questions then......... -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/04/01 21:23 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 'Whatever you do, you''ll regret it.'
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:23:48PM -0400 or thereabouts, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Well, submit dem questions then.........
Okay, real basic stuff, that everyone is interested in ... How to I get on the net? What do I use for mail, and how do I set it up? How do I print? How do I search for a file? What is the meaning of life? <g> -- Best regards, Gary
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 12:14 am, Gary wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:23:48PM -0400 or thereabouts, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Well, submit dem questions then.........
Okay, real basic stuff, that everyone is interested in ... How to I get on the net? What do I use for mail, and how do I set it up? How do I print? How do I search for a file? What is the meaning of life? <g>
If we can answer that last one, we can forget all the others so let's tackle that one first... :o) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/05/01 00:49 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Every creature has within itself the wild, uncontrollable urge to punt."
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 06:52, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 12:14 am, Gary wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:23:48PM -0400 or thereabouts, Bruce Marshall
wrote:
Well, submit dem questions then.........
Okay, real basic stuff, that everyone is interested in ... How to I get on the net? What do I use for mail, and how do I set it up? How do I print? How do I search for a file? What is the meaning of life? <g>
If we can answer that last one, we can forget all the others so let's tackle that one first... :o)
Easy: 42 ;)
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:52:12AM -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 12:14 am, Gary wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:23:48PM -0400 or thereabouts, Bruce Marshall wrote:
Well, submit dem questions then.........
Okay, real basic stuff, that everyone is interested in ... How to I get on the net? What do I use for mail, and how do I set it up? How do I print? How do I search for a file? What is the meaning of life? <g>
If we can answer that last one, we can forget all the others so let's tackle that one first... :o)
42
Dear All, I am planning to use my linux system for molocular evolution simulations that require a lot of calculations, typically taking up to a week on a fast P III machine (program Paup*). By all accounts the AMD Athlon 1.4 GHz is faster than P4 1.5 GHz 512 MB without DDR RAM and maybe about equally fast as P4 1.7 GHz with an equal amount of RAMBUS RAM or at least DDR RAM. But the 1.7GHz is a lot more expensive. However a I talked to a person who claimed that on his set up a P III with 1 GHz beat Athlon in Linux in an application that required a lot of RAM and calculations (he had 750 MB). 1.) Can anybody confirm this from their own experience? 2.) How is this with the P4 1.5 GHz machine. The reason according to this person is that memory intensive programs would not benefit from the larger L1 and L2 cache memory of AMD Athlon. The lack of appropriate cache has been attributed to the lack of performance as experienced by P4 processors. 3.) How well does Suse Linux 7.2 support P4 processors. P.S. This could be the reason why MAC G4 800 was left standing in the dirt by P4 1.7 GHz, even thought the code was optimized for G4 and not for P4. -- _____________________________________________ Pekka Kohonen Turku Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences Department of Medical Microbiology University of Turku Kiinamyllynkatu 13 FIN-20520 Turku Finland ______________________________________________
> > On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:23:48PM -0400 or thereabouts, Bruce Marshall > wrote: > > > Well, submit dem questions then......... > > 1. How do you make the applet buttons in the task bar smaller? 2. How do you put a link to a new program on the desktop with the appropriate icon? 3. How do you know which files are executable? 4. Can you send mail in Kmail using blind carbon copy (bcc)? 5. What is the easiest way to make mail groups in Kmail? 6. How do you copy mp3s from a cd to a directory on the hard drive? 7. When a program hangs how do you kill it with the kill command? The pid is not the name of the program. Ron http://lists.suse.com
On Wednesday 05 September 2001 14:15 pm, Ron White wrote:
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:23:48PM -0400 or thereabouts, Bruce Marshall
wrote:
Well, submit dem questions then.........
1. How do you make the applet buttons in the task bar smaller? 2. How do you put a link to a new program on the desktop with the appropriate icon? 3. How do you know which files are executable? 4. Can you send mail in Kmail using blind carbon copy (bcc)? 5. What is the easiest way to make mail groups in Kmail? 6. How do you copy mp3s from a cd to a directory on the hard drive? 7. When a program hangs how do you kill it with the kill command? The pid is not the name of the program.
Ron
Great stuff...! Thanks.
-- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 09/05/01 14:50 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "An artist never really finishes his work, he merely abandons it." - Paul Valry
participants (10)
-
Anders Johansson -
Bruce Marshall -
Cliff Sarginson -
Clint Tinsley -
Gary -
Jack Malone -
Jon Clausen -
Martin Webster -
Pekka Kohonen -
Ron White